Frankly Speaking - Congressman Barney Blasts Back

[top gun]

I only went as far as Kennedy because I think I was almost born by the time he died, anyone else was way before you or me. I didnt know that anyone tried to hurt FDR or Truman, thanks for the info

Its interesting how two people can see the same events so differently.

I did not mean it how you took it when you said You're going back to... he did, he did, he did it too

I meant it in a way to say this, I do not feel that dems/libs in general really feel bad at all for how they treated our former President or his administration and I dont think they are genuine when they say they want to get along or really discuss, I think they just want these bills past and will say what ever they need to say to get it done, if they can apply guilt to those out there who do not want this health care bill, next cap and trade exc.. then they will. and the next time some republican is in charge or dares to attempt to be in charge they will be attacked in the same way its been done in the past.

Glad I could help inform you on Presidential assassination attempts. Sometimes age really is wisdom I guess.

Both sides have radical factions. However I'm a moderate and I honestly think George Bush was the worst President I've ever seen. He was a puppet to fearmonger/warmonger Cheney in the begining... got away a little from that at the end... but by then he'd already trashed some important American Civil Liberties, invaded a sovereign country on a series of misrepresentations (read that lies) and TORTURED captured defenseless detainees.

Oh... and gave us the greatest economic downturn since The Great Depression... The Bush Recession.

So while I'll not go running to Hitler analogies. I can easily understand why the world intensely disliked George Bush & team.

you said this but I can not figure out what you mean...

"I believe that's the same type Bull Crap you guys also spread right before Dr. Tiller was assassinated.

What did I say about tiler before he was killed other than he was a sick abortionist who should be stopped?

You mean the... leave our guys alone... they're not hurting anybody... they're just exercising their rights... that person they're violently protesting against is scum anyway... stuff.

Don't see the connection???

Then this is super important. Go to a computer where you can watch this video. It will help you a lot in understanding the obvious things in life. It's actually even called that... The Mr. Obvious Show. Seriously check it out!

It won't embed so you guy will have to click on the Watch on YouTube after you click to start it. Believe me... it's worth it!

 

[Pandora]

Glad I could help inform you on Presidential assassination attempts. Sometimes age really is wisdom I guess.

Both sides have radical factions. However I'm a moderate and I honestly think George Bush was the worst President I've ever seen. He was a puppet to fearmonger/warmonger Cheney in the begining... got away a little from that at the end... but by then he'd already trashed some important American Civil Liberties, invaded a sovereign country on a series of misrepresentations (read that lies) and TORTURED captured defenseless detainees.

Oh... and gave us the greatest economic downturn since The Great Depression... The Bush Recession.

So while I'll not go running to Hitler analogies. I can easily understand why the world intensely disliked George Bush & team.



You mean the... leave our guys alone... they're not hurting anybody... they're just exercising their rights... that person they're violently protesting against is scum anyway... stuff.

Don't see the connection???

Then this is super important. Go to a computer where you can watch this video. It will help you a lot in understanding the obvious things in life. It's actually even called that... The Mr. Obvious Show. Seriously check it out!

It won't embed so you guy will have to click on the Watch on YouTube after you click to start it. Believe me... it's worth it!

I will watch it as soon as I can. Thanks for posting it


I do not consider you moderate, I would consider PLC1 moderate but not you. But you probably are not uber hard core left like some others.

I do not remember anyone threatening tiler before he died, but you are probably right if someone had I might have just said, oh they are just blowing off steam. But then again I know there was a group who was targeting people like him and putting the picures in websites.. I think that was terrible really so I may not have said its nothing.

I am concerned for Glenn Beck right now, I think someone on the left is going to kill him, I really do believe this. I think Hannity makes them mad but Beck is dangerous to them. I also think someone is going to try and kill Sarah Palin. I hope really hope I am wrong.

I sure do not see President Bush the same way you do. He did spend like a drunkin sailor though, man did I hate that about him!

 

[PLC1]

I do not mean just in war protests, During a few McCain events they screamed so loud that he had to just end the rally because they were not going to let him speak. Tom Tancredo had to end his event on illegal imigration because they not only screamed they put banners in front of the cameras.

Once in Portand Oregon and once in Calif I read about a person being drug out of their car and beat up by the anti war protesters during some march. In your face tactics, stopping traffic, forcing people to hear them and attacking them verbally or otherwise is wrong IMO. I would not defend that if it were coming from the right either.

That sort of thing is just wrong, regardless of who is doing it, I agree totally. Protesting is one thing, shutting up the opposition by shouting them down is just not right. Dragging people from cars is assault, and is not protected under the first Amendment.

I am not sure I agree with the rationing you are talking about. In other countries if they deem you do not need what ever it is you think you need then you dont get it, here you can pay out of pocket for what ever it is you think you want or need. Some people have insurance that covers just a few things, the basics, some have insurance that doesnt cover the small stuff but kicks in if you have a major issue. Some people have insurance like me where they pay 80% and I pay 20%. I am sure I have some kind of cap since insurance companies are not bottomless pits but if I reach my cap I can pay out of pocket if I think I want to waste my money on it.

That is rationing: If you reach your cap, then that's it. If you can pay out of pocket, fine. If not, then you either don't get treated, or you go on a Medicare program of some kind. It is not a good system, not is it equitable, nor is is very efficient. The fact is, there always has been some kind of rationing, and always will be. There is no such thing as unlimited care.

Very few of us can afford to pay out of pocket for more than just a few basics. Hospital stays can easily top $15,000 a day, intensive care many times that. A simple test can cost tens of thousands of dollars. What we really need to be debating is how best to bring down costs before they eat us all up.

I really dont care about the health care. I almost never go to the doctor, I dont like them and I self doctor when I think I need something. I care about people who do not want government health care having the right to be able to speak up about it with out being deemed terrorists and evil.

You will one day care very much about health care. I sense you are much younger than I am (66). The young seem to think that they don't need catastrophic insurance, will never need it. Let me tell you, hospital care is extremely expensive. Once you start into those "senior" years, you don't dare be without coverage. Medicare is great, but it is getting more and more expensive. Those age 60=65 are most in need of something. It is unlikely that they can buy their own (pre-existing conditions, + up to 20 times the cost for younger people) If someone in their early 60s loses his/her job, it is difficult to get hired and even more difficult to get insurance. Get sick, and everything you've saved for decades can be gone in a few days. That is the reality of our current "system."

 

[pocketfullofshells]

That sort of thing is just wrong, regardless of who is doing it, I agree totally. Protesting is one thing, shutting up the opposition by shouting them down is just not right. Dragging people from cars is assault, and is not protected under the first Amendment.



That is rationing: If you reach your cap, then that's it. If you can pay out of pocket, fine. If not, then you either don't get treated, or you go on a Medicare program of some kind. It is not a good system, not is it equitable, nor is is very efficient. The fact is, there always has been some kind of rationing, and always will be. There is no such thing as unlimited care.

Very few of us can afford to pay out of pocket for more than just a few basics. Hospital stays can easily top $15,000 a day, intensive care many times that. A simple test can cost tens of thousands of dollars. What we really need to be debating is how best to bring down costs before they eat us all up.




You will one day care very much about health care. I sense you are much younger than I am (66). The young seem to think that they don't need catastrophic insurance, will never need it. Let me tell you, hospital care is extremely expensive. Once you start into those "senior" years, you don't dare be without coverage. Medicare is great, but it is getting more and more expensive. Those age 60=65 are most in need of something. It is unlikely that they can buy their own (pre-existing conditions, + up to 20 times the cost for younger people) If someone in their early 60s loses his/her job, it is difficult to get hired and even more difficult to get insurance. Get sick, and everything you've saved for decades can be gone in a few days. That is the reality of our current "system."

I agree my freind/ex, pays like 200 a ER trip, as of last few months needed about 2 trips a month and that does not count what she pays for health care, and for her out of pocket alot of meds ( also needs anti Sezure meds) and what was not covered by her surgury...she has a good job, no kids or anything...and she has gets help from family ( when dating I had even started to think of a savings plan to keep money on hand to help her) and none of that means she can afford it still...and things could get worse....its hard to afford being sick cronicly even when you have good health care. Let alone for those who lack good health care, or have none at all.

 

[top gun]

I will watch it as soon as I can. Thanks for posting it
I do not consider you moderate, I would consider PLC1 moderate but not you. But you probably are not uber hard core left like some others.

I'm a moderate Democrat... I think PLC1 is more an Independent. But I still think I'm pretty in line with PLC1 on many issues & comments. I know I've agreed with him a lot on this board.

I do not remember anyone threatening tiler before he died, but you are probably right if someone had I might have just said, oh they are just blowing off steam. But then again I know there was a group who was targeting people like him and putting the picures in websites.. I think that was terrible really so I may not have said its nothing.

COME ON PANDORA... people were not only threatening him they'd already SHOT HIM BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a major problem when you say things like that that are so skewed away from the reality of the truth.

Operation Rescue kept a daily vigil outside Tiller's clinic for many years: first the national group, then later a branch that moved from California to Kansas specifically to focus on Tiller. On August 19, 1993, outside of the Wichita clinic, Tiller was shot in both arms by Shelley Shannon, who received an 11-year prison sentence for the crime.

I am concerned for Glenn Beck right now, I think someone on the left is going to kill him, I really do believe this. I think Hannity makes them mad but Beck is dangerous to them. I also think someone is going to try and kill Sarah Palin. I hope really hope I am wrong.

The Far Left might spit on Glenn Beck... but they won't kill him.

Unlike your Tiller killer types...

 

[PLC1]

No, no, the "far left", if there is such a thing, loves Glenn Beck. What better example is there of a nutjob spewing right wing talking points? Why, the left offing Beck would be like the right offing Michael Moore. They'd lose a target for slings and darts if they used him as a target for bullets. They love him almost as much as Colbert and Stewart love him. What better source for political humor could they possibly ask for?

 

[Pandora]

I'm a moderate Democrat... I think PLC1 is more an Independent. But I still think I'm pretty in line with PLC1 on many issues & comments. I know I've agreed with him a lot on this board.



COME ON PANDORA... people were not only threatening him they'd already SHOT HIM BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a major problem when you say things like that that are so skewed away from the reality of the truth.

Operation Rescue kept a daily vigil outside Tiller's clinic for many years: first the national group, then later a branch that moved from California to Kansas specifically to focus on Tiller. On August 19, 1993, outside of the Wichita clinic, Tiller was shot in both arms by Shelley Shannon, who received an 11-year prison sentence for the crime.



The Far Left might spit on Glenn Beck... but they won't kill him.

Unlike your Tiller killer types...

Is operation rescue the same group who had pictures of the abortionists on a website with a round target deal behind them and then put a big X over the picture once they either quit or were dead? I am assuming its the same group and I think that group is crazy and wrong, as wrong as the church group who takes the god hates you signs all over the country.

I totally disagree that there are no crazy nuts on the left who would kill or try to kill Glenn Beck. Now you are doing exactly what you have accused me of doing. There are death threats but you think its nothing to worry about, at best someone might spit on him.

 

[Pandora]

That sort of thing is just wrong, regardless of who is doing it, I agree totally. Protesting is one thing, shutting up the opposition by shouting them down is just not right. Dragging people from cars is assault, and is not protected under the first Amendment.



That is rationing: If you reach your cap, then that's it. If you can pay out of pocket, fine. If not, then you either don't get treated, or you go on a Medicare program of some kind. It is not a good system, not is it equitable, nor is is very efficient. The fact is, there always has been some kind of rationing, and always will be. There is no such thing as unlimited care.

Very few of us can afford to pay out of pocket for more than just a few basics. Hospital stays can easily top $15,000 a day, intensive care many times that. A simple test can cost tens of thousands of dollars. What we really need to be debating is how best to bring down costs before they eat us all up.




You will one day care very much about health care. I sense you are much younger than I am (66). The young seem to think that they don't need catastrophic insurance, will never need it. Let me tell you, hospital care is extremely expensive. Once you start into those "senior" years, you don't dare be without coverage. Medicare is great, but it is getting more and more expensive. Those age 60=65 are most in need of something. It is unlikely that they can buy their own (pre-existing conditions, + up to 20 times the cost for younger people) If someone in their early 60s loses his/her job, it is difficult to get hired and even more difficult to get insurance. Get sick, and everything you've saved for decades can be gone in a few days. That is the reality of our current "system."

The difference is we pick our caps. I have 6 choices for my health care, I pick the one where I pay nothing because I do not plan to use it. The government (who I work for) pays 900 a month for me, but they would if I picked the big plan or the little plan.

You can buy private insurance and you can pick your cap, if for some reason you have surpassed your cap you can pay out of pocket. In other countries with socialized health care, they tell you what you can have. Example, in England when the women wanted the medication that would help the breast cancer they had, they were told no. They did not have the option to pay out of pocket. I would rather have the option to be able to pay out of pocket if I thought I wanted something than be told no you can not have it by some jackass.

I do not think there is an American out there who does not thing we should do something to fix the high cost of health care. The cost of a hospital stay is just insane, but there are ways to fix this stuff without throwing out everything we have when most of it is very good.

I do not think even later I am going to care about the health care except to laugh at my sister who will be in utter shock that her dear obama's health care is not going to cover her acupressure acupuncture healing stone therapy and her fibromialga. (spelling is bad on all those, in a hurry and no time to look them up )

I do on the other hand worry and feel bad for people who are trying to speak out against this, if it passes I will be far more concerned with the quality of care they are getting and what they are denied than I am any fool like my sister who helped bring the crap to fullfillment.

 

[PLC1]

The difference is we pick our caps. I have 6 choices for my health care, I pick the one where I pay nothing because I do not plan to use it. The government (who I work for) pays 900 a month for me, but they would if I picked the big plan or the little plan.

You can buy private insurance and you can pick your cap, if for some reason you have surpassed your cap you can pay out of pocket. In other countries with socialized health care, they tell you what you can have. Example, in England when the women wanted the medication that would help the breast cancer they had, they were told no. They did not have the option to pay out of pocket. I would rather have the option to be able to pay out of pocket if I thought I wanted something than be told no you can not have it by some jackass.

I do not think there is an American out there who does not thing we should do something to fix the high cost of health care. The cost of a hospital stay is just insane, but there are ways to fix this stuff without throwing out everything we have when most of it is very good.

I do not think even later I am going to care about the health care except to laugh at my sister who will be in utter shock that her dear obama's health care is not going to cover her acupressure acupuncture healing stone therapy and her fibromialga. (spelling is bad on all those, in a hurry and no time to look them up )

I do on the other hand worry and feel bad for people who are trying to speak out against this, if it passes I will be far more concerned with the quality of care they are getting and what they are denied than I am any fool like my sister who helped bring the crap to fullfillment.

I believe that HR3200 allows you to pick your caps also. I'm not sure about the Senate version, as it hasn't yet been completed. What the final bill will look like is a matter for speculation still.

How do you know how much of a cap you can live with? Once you've met your cap, then what? If you still need more chemo, more rehab, more radiation, and you can't pay, do you simply die or live with disability that could be fixed?

I don't really see anyone advocating that we throw out everything we have now and starting over. What I've read in the actual bill, not in the comments about it, is more fixing some of the things that are wrong with the insurance industry than about starting over from scratch. What I don't see, that needs to be addressed, is more cost savings.

Here's a hypothetical: You're 55 years old, 10 years too young for Medicare, and you just lost your job. Of course, you've lost your insurance along with it. You've applied for other jobs , but there are younger, more energetic people who also apply and jobs are scarce. You have (pick one: diabetes, high blood pressure, a history of heart disease, a suspicious lump, whatever). If you get an individual policy, your pre existing condition won't be covered. Further, no insurance company is anxious to cover you anyway, preferring as customers twenty somethings with no history of health issues.

What do you do?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

No, no, the "far left", if there is such a thing, loves Glenn Beck. What better example is there of a nutjob spewing right wing talking points? Why, the left offing Beck would be like the right offing Michael Moore. They'd lose a target for slings and darts if they used him as a target for bullets. They love him almost as much as Colbert and Stewart love him. What better source for political humor could they possibly ask for?

I would rather see a republican party that could debate on merit, not lies and hyperbol like Beck. one that could have a real debate and not think that they have to carry guns around to make there point...yes we know your angry and nuts, now go away.....

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I believe that HR3200 allows you to pick your caps also. I'm not sure about the Senate version, as it hasn't yet been completed. What the final bill will look like is a matter for speculation still.

How do you know how much of a cap you can live with? Once you've met your cap, then what? If you still need more chemo, more rehab, more radiation, and you can't pay, do you simply die or live with disability that could be fixed?

I don't really see anyone advocating that we throw out everything we have now and starting over. What I've read in the actual bill, not in the comments about it, is more fixing some of the things that are wrong with the insurance industry than about starting over from scratch. What I don't see, that needs to be addressed, is more cost savings.

Here's a hypothetical: You're 55 years old, 10 years too young for Medicare, and you just lost your job. Of course, you've lost your insurance along with it. You've applied for other jobs , but there are younger, more energetic people who also apply and jobs are scarce. You have (pick one: diabetes, high blood pressure, a history of heart disease, a suspicious lump, whatever). If you get an individual policy, your pre existing condition won't be covered. Further, no insurance company is anxious to cover you anyway, preferring as customers twenty somethings with no history of health issues.

What do you do?

or your just out of college, working 2 part time jobs, that will not make you full time so as to not pay the health care cost. your income just pays rent and food and your student loans....Econ sucks so no one is hireing......

or

you got offered a new job, to get better pay and get you away from the 2 jobs that dont pay eugh h and offered no health care to you for 8 years ...though just got some health care after you forced there hand with legal threats and got full time.....you take job and 3 months later, do to bad econ get let go.....no more health care again, and go back to one of those part time jobs becuse youont wawant empopoymenyou would r rather work some still......moral is, never quit your job if you have health care. thats whatou lelearn, even more so if you happen to have a major health issue.

3 you have a job, it has health care....they have blue cross blue sheild...youike itit....they need to lower cost....they drop it and go with some other company you dont like...our r choice is now, pay up the &&&& and pay for that same health care plan all yourself...or go with the one they picked for the new plan....You think most people realy have a choice in health care? no they dont, most get this choice...take what company gives you or take none.

4.

both 1 and 2 was me, and basicly happened to alot of freinds of mine. at one point about 70% of my freinds had no health care.

 

[PLC1]

or your just out of college, working 2 part time jobs, that will not make you full time so as to not pay the health care cost. your income just pays rent and food and your student loans....Econ sucks so no one is hireing......

or

you got offered a new job, to get better pay and get you away from the 2 jobs that dont pay eugh h and offered no health care to you for 8 years ...though just got some health care after you forced there hand with legal threats and got full time.....you take job and 3 months later, do to bad econ get let go.....no more health care again, and go back to one of those part time jobs becuse youont wawant empopoymenyou would r rather work some still......moral is, never quit your job if you have health care. thats whatou lelearn, even more so if you happen to have a major health issue.

3 you have a job, it has health care....they have blue cross blue sheild...youike itit....they need to lower cost....they drop it and go with some other company you dont like...our r choice is now, pay up the &&&& and pay for that same health care plan all yourself...or go with the one they picked for the new plan....You think most people realy have a choice in health care? no they dont, most get this choice...take what company gives you or take none.

4.

both 1 and 2 was me, and basicly happened to alot of freinds of mine. at one point about 70% of my freinds had no health care.

We really need to divorce health care from employment. If nothing else comes from the so called "debate" about health care reform but that, it will be a huge step in the right direction. It would lift a giant burden from employers, make it more feasible to change jobs, make it far easier to leave the corporate world and start a business. It would be an enormous boost to our economy, even if we did nothing else.

 

[top gun]

Is operation rescue the same group who had pictures of the abortionists on a website with a round target deal behind them and then put a big X over the picture once they either quit or were dead? I am assuming its the same group and I think that group is crazy and wrong, as wrong as the church group who takes the god hates you signs all over the country.

I totally disagree that there are no crazy nuts on the left who would kill or try to kill Glenn Beck. Now you are doing exactly what you have accused me of doing. There are death threats but you think its nothing to worry about, at best someone might spit on him.

Hello! You never admitted you were completely wrong. You just changed the subject. This is kinda important because it shows those on the Right will say anything no matter how completely opposite the facts are even when there's major injury committed by these wingnuts.

Did you say this...

Originally Posted by Pandora
I do not remember anyone threatening tiler before he died...

And the truth was...

Operation Rescue kept a daily vigil outside Tiller's clinic for many years: first the national group, then later a branch that moved from California to Kansas specifically to focus on Tiller. On August 19, 1993, outside of the Wichita clinic, Tiller was shot in both arms by Shelley Shannon, who received an 11-year prison sentence for the crime.