Gitmo Detainees - Government handouts

[pocketfullofshells]

Did anyone actually read the link provided? Did anyone actually read the article that the blog was referring too? The blog was nothing but spin, and the answers to the questions asked in the blog are obvious as to why the situation is what it is.

When reading the situation as it is laid out in the article, it appears that they are mostly referring to the Uighurs. Of which there are 17 of them. They have been deemed safe to release for a long time, except a country other than CHina is willing to take them, and of course we wont be returning them to China.

Id like to know why these people were detained in the first place? It sounds to me that thier detention was illegal or at least immorale in the first place. I am not thrilled about any of them being released here, but we dont have a choice after the policies that Bush created.

As for thier getting "welfare" we all might want to think about the reality here. Firstly, they can probably sue and win a few million worth of damages for thier detention without due cause. Id much rather put them on the doll for a period of time than deal with the potential lawsuits. Then of course there is the option of just putting them on the streets with zero means. I think that would be the worst option. America is a very tough place for new immigrants. Simply releasing them into society would put the rest of us in much greater harm. Because I am sure the first thing they would turn to is crime.

The situation is messed up. There is no question about that. But instead of getting all up in arms over Obama, you might want to direct your anger at the Bush administration that is responsible for this.

you forget they dont care if they did not do anything wrong, they dont care if we lack proof, they dont care if they are not charged, they dont care if they are tortured, they dont care.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The Bush administration is not letting them out and putting them in our cities. There is no reason to blame them.

Since you feel that they are in no way any threat to us you should consider inviting some of them to come live with you. There could be some government money come your way for doing it. Or you could just do it to make up for the evil soldiers who took away their civil rights in the first place, maybe you along with obama can make the world love us again?

I do not believe they were playing jacks on the side of the road in an innocent manner and the evil American soldiers just grabbed these innocent boys and shoved them in gitmo, but you are welcome to believe that if you like.

Others have been released before and ended up right back with the terrorist groups (can we still say that word legally?) They ended up killing American solders. Do you think they let the innocent ones go then too?

It’s so funny but not in a ha-ha sort of way how easily some will demonize our troops as the evil ones who purposefully arrest the innocent, then kept them hostage knowing they were totally and completely innocent.

"others" and who let those "others go again?

You whine a lot about Obama releasing anyone, even though you don't know any facts on why they are there ...but never heard you say jack under Bush when actual people where set free. its almost like your a hypocrite ...

 

[Pandora]

"others" and who let those "others go again?

You whine a lot about Obama releasing anyone, even though you don't know any facts on why they are there ...but never heard you say jack under Bush when actual people where set free. its almost like your a hypocrite ...

You think everyone who does not agree with you is whining or crying. I don’t care if they are released or not, It’s probably better if they are released here instead of over in the Middle East, at least the troops will be safer. I do mean it; I hope they get a house right next to you at least half of them and the other half can camp out by bunz house.


The people that the Bush administration let out, was a proven mistake and they did it because of the pressure from the left. How come we don’t just learn our lesson from that mistake? Who knows and who really cares, just give them their food stamps and a section 8 house right next to you and I will be happy enough.

If my two choices are to believe that our troops are monsters who lock up innocent people just for ****s and giggles or these guys were caught doing terrorists acts… I know its shocking to people like you, but Ill believe the troops.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

There is nothing wrong with American Muslims supporting obama, thank frakin god they supported obama and not the republicans. There is nothing wrong with Hamas supporting obama either, thank Frakin god that they supported obama over the republican. same for all of the dictators, and lets not forget the communist party of America and the socialist party of America. It is a very good thing those groups supported obama and John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) before him.

If you read my post in context you would have noticed I was replying to someone who felt that the detainees from gitmo who are going to be released in the US would be republican. I disagreed.

You are the one who seems to associate them with terrorists not me, I associated them with democrats ...

So what your saying is the republicans don't want Muslims in there party...Maybe one day it can back to its roots even.. its good to see the Religious tolerance of the Republicans then.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You think everyone who does not agree with you is whining or crying. I don’t care if they are released or not, It’s probably better if they are released here instead of over in the Middle East, at least the troops will be safer. I do mean it; I hope they get a house right next to you at least half of them and the other half can camp out by bunz house.


The people that the Bush administration let out, was a proven mistake and they did it because of the pressure from the left. How come we don’t just learn our lesson from that mistake? Who knows and who really cares, just give them their food stamps and a section 8 house right next to you and I will be happy enough.

If my two choices are to believe that our troops are monsters who lock up innocent people just for ****s and giggles or these guys were caught doing terrorists acts… I know its shocking to people like you, but Ill believe the troops.

also your mindset is just mindboggling...well if they said they did it, they must have.. Same with cops? Frak the court systems then. And did it ever pop in your little head that maybe someone lied and gave bad intel the to us? Or that we even know that that in fact has happened?

Its funny you who ***** about the government so much, when they just say someone did someone did something here...you just believe them with nothing to back it up....I doubt if they where not Muslim what where Christians you would not be so fast to judge.

 

[Pandora]

So what your saying is the republicans don't want Muslims in there party...Maybe one day it can back to its roots even.. its good to see the Religious tolerance of the Republicans then.

I am not a republican and I sure can not speak for any or all republicans.

I am glad that I do not share the values of the Muslim faith; if I did I would be a Muslim.

I have religious tolerance for them; I just don’t happen to share just about any of their values.

 

[Pandora]

also your mindset is just mindboggling...well if they said they did it, they must have.. Same with cops? Frak the court systems then. And did it ever pop in your little head that maybe someone lied and gave bad intel the to us? Or that we even know that that in fact has happened?

Its funny you who ***** about the government so much, when they just say someone did someone did something here...you just believe them with nothing to back it up....I doubt if they where not Muslim what where Christians you would not be so fast to judge.

There are different court systems for different people. American citizens have one and military has another and prisoners in war have another. I have no problem with going to court and of course there are bad seeds in the police department and the military and hell most of congress is beyond corrupt. But what you are asking me to believe is that our troops framed all these guys and then handed them over to more solders who continued in the frame up while of course torturing them horrifically and all for what? Something to do? They were hard up to find someone to hurt and no small children where around to fulfill their need?

You and people like you make our solders out to be monsters, I know there are some bad ones but the majority are not and the majority is not going to cover up for the few rotten ones, but then again they would all have to be pretty damn rotten to be what you are making them out to be.

If I thought our troops were liars and set up these guys I would offer my home up to them and I would try to help them. Since you think our troops were liars and framed them you should offer up your home to them. I really wish you had to put your money where your mouth is and do it. It would make for interesting reading in the morning paper.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

There are different court systems for different people. American citizens have one and military has another and prisoners in war have another. I have no problem with going to court and of course there are bad seeds in the police department and the military and hell most of congress is beyond corrupt. But what you are asking me to believe is that our troops framed all these guys and then handed them over to more solders who continued in the frame up while of course torturing them horrifically and all for what? Something to do? They were hard up to find someone to hurt and no small children where around to fulfill their need?

You and people like you make our solders out to be monsters, I know there are some bad ones but the majority are not and the majority is not going to cover up for the few rotten ones, but then again they would all have to be pretty damn rotten to be what you are making them out to be.

If I thought our troops were liars and set up these guys I would offer my home up to them and I would try to help them. Since you think our troops were liars and framed them you should offer up your home to them. I really wish you had to put your money where your mouth is and do it. It would make for interesting reading in the morning paper.

name one time I have ever ever made out troops out to be monsters...put up or shut up, I want to see this.

 

[Bunz]

The Bush administration is not letting them out and putting them in our cities. There is no reason to blame them.

This is a knee slapper, I mean it was the Bush administration who established Gitmo as a detention camp in such a place as to where they could skirt American and international law. Then established an operating situation where anyone could be kept, without due process, for an indefinate period of time.
Ill ask a direct question of you...what should be done if anything to those at Gitmo?

Since you feel that they are in no way any threat to us you should consider inviting some of them to come live with you. There could be some government money come your way for doing it. Or you could just do it to make up for the evil soldiers who took away their civil rights in the first place, maybe you along with obama can make the world love us again?

I didnt suggest none of them are a threat. That is why I have always said we need some sort court to deal with them and find out.
As for your suggestion of them all coming to live with me, I had a suggestion, that was brought up in Congress while the Gitmo situation was developing and that was to establish the facility on Attu Island. I mentioned even in the Gitmo Gitclosed thread. But of course that wouldnt have worked because it is indeed on American soil, and those people subjected to the American Constitution.

I do not believe they were playing jacks on the side of the road in an innocent manner and the evil American soldiers just grabbed these innocent boys and shoved them in gitmo, but you are welcome to believe that if you like.

First off, this notion you suggest I think the American soldiers are evil or any negative connotation is simply false and frankly offensive. But coming back to the subject, I am not, nor is the military exactly sure why various individuals are there. But they are. This is why we have trials.

Others have been released before and ended up right back with the terrorist groups (can we still say that word legally?) They ended up killing American solders. Do you think they let the innocent ones go then too?

Obviously the Bush administration let some of the wrong ones go.

It’s so funny but not in a ha-ha sort of way how easily some will demonize our troops as the evil ones who purposefully arrest the innocent, then kept them hostage knowing they were totally and completely innocent.

I have not in any way demonized the troops, nor has anyone who has replied in this thread. That is your incorrect assertion. I am critical of the Bush administration in this regard when it comes to the policy they created.

 

[Andy]

So what your saying is the republicans don't want Muslims in there party...Maybe one day it can back to its roots even.. its good to see the Religious tolerance of the Republicans then.

This coming from a person who has in the past painted all religious people with broad brush accusations of condemnation, and general dislike.

Why is it everyone else is expected to be tolerant, but you?

 

[Andy]

This is a knee slapper, I mean it was the Bush administration who established Gitmo as a detention camp in such a place as to where they could skirt American and international law. Then established an operating situation where anyone could be kept, without due process, for an indefinate period of time.
Ill ask a direct question of you...what should be done if anything to those at Gitmo?

So all past mistakes in your view, exempt present ones? And you still miss the point that non-americans are not entitled to 'due process' under our consitution. Can you name for me, one civil crime committed in Mexico, that was prosecuted by our American courts? Why not? Because they are not entitled to American justice, when they break some law in Mexico, and are not an American citizen.

So why would you expect a member of the Taliban, caught in Afghanistan, be given the same civil rights as American? Do you think Americans captured by the Taliban are given rights there? Of course not.

This is such a hypocritical stance, it's laughable, if it wasn't that so many idiots hold this view. Shows how pathetic our American education is. No one seems to even understand what the Constitution even says, or apparently who it applies too.

And again, will you give up on the non-existent international law joke? Funny how when other people were breaking international law, you had no problem saying it was fine, but when it's us, then it's bad.

If you are not going to evenly use international law, which is a joke, consistently, then with all due respect, shut up about it. You are just showing how hypocritical you are with it. That it's nothing more than a tool when useful to you, and to be ignored when it isn't.

I didnt suggest none of them are a threat. That is why I have always said we need some sort court to deal with them and find out.

Well, just like how we didn't release Soviet cables during trials of soviet spies, because it would compromise our sources of information, similarly, we are not going to release the sources for our information against Al Qaeda, for a few terrorist.

So the net effect is, they are going to be released to commit more acts of terror.

First off, this notion you suggest I think the American soldiers are evil or any negative connotation is simply false and frankly offensive.

Question: Most of the detainees were captured, and sent there by our American Soldiers. Do you think we should trust that they are there for a reason, or that our soldier are evil bastards that randomly grab innocent civilians and send them to gitmo?

Because whether you specifically believe the latter, most of the others who hold and support your position on this issue due.

There have been a number of posts that advocate that exact point of view, that have been on this forum.

Obviously the Bush administration let some of the wrong ones go.

Obviously, Obama is letting a ton of the wrong ones go.

 

[Pandora]

name one time I have ever ever made out troops out to be monsters...put up or shut up, I want to see this.

Monsters torture people, monsters frame innocent people and lie to say they did something they didn’t do. Monsters imprison people for no reason for long periods of time.

You are playing a game in my opinion, you say all this is happening but you blame Bush. Bush did not arrest them, or frame them or torture them or lie about them.

If our troops really have framed them, really have lied all this time about their situation, really have tortured them then our troops would be monsters…

I don’t think they did any of that. Though I do think there were those three cases of water boarding I do not think there is daily torture or even bi weekly torture or any of that going on there and I do not think those men were innocent and our troops decided hey lets nab these guys and we can frame them to look guilty. To say our troops are doing that is to say they are monsters.

 

[Pandora]

This is a knee slapper, I mean it was the Bush administration who established Gitmo as a detention camp in such a place as to where they could skirt American and international law. Then established an operating situation where anyone could be kept, without due process, for an indefinate period of time.
Ill ask a direct question of you...what should be done if anything to those at Gitmo? .

Prisoners in war do not get American justice. There is another kind of court that they have. I won’t pretend I know a ton about it because I don’t know much about it at all but I know in past wars we did not take prisoners to the US and have a court trial. I don’t think they should live there forever and I do think there should be some sort of court. I hate the UN but maybe they could have court. I really don’t know the answer to that but I know due process is a term from our court system. I don’t know who should hold court for them but even the worse guy in gitmo should have a trial.

I didnt suggest none of them are a threat. That is why I have always said we need some sort court to deal with them and find out.
As for your suggestion of them all coming to live with me, I had a suggestion, that was brought up in Congress while the Gitmo situation was developing and that was to establish the facility on Attu Island. I mentioned even in the Gitmo Gitclosed thread. But of course that wouldnt have worked because it is indeed on American soil, and those people subjected to the American Constitution. .

I did not suggest you said “everyone of them are innocent” Im sorry if you thought I meant that.

You said this…”When reading the situation as it is laid out in the article, it appears that they are mostly referring to the Uighurs. Of which there are 17 of them. They have been deemed safe to release for a long time, except a country other than CHina is willing to take them, and of course we wont be returning them to China.

Id like to know why these people were detained in the first place? It sounds to me that thier detention was illegal or at least immorale in the first place. I am not thrilled about any of them being released here, but we dont have a choice after the policies that Bush created.”

Of course we have a choice; there is a world court yes? Let them hold the trial but if you think “some” of them really are innocent let them come live at your house. The government could pay you to foster family them.

First off, this notion you suggest I think the American soldiers are evil or any negative connotation is simply false and frankly offensive. But coming back to the subject, I am not, nor is the military exactly sure why various individuals are there. But they are. This is why we have trials. .

If you think some of the men there are innocent then they had to have been framed. Who framed them? Do you think President Bush flew to Iraq and personally caught and framed these men? If these men are innocent they were framed by our troops. If you say they are innocent then you are saying our troops framed them, lied about them and continue in a lie about them… what does that make our troops?

Remember it was you who said “It sounds to me that thier detention was illegal or at least immorale in the first place.” Who detained them? The troops….
If it is illegal and or immoral to detain them then does it not stand to reason it was illegal and or immoral to arrest them? Who arrested them? The troops….

Obviously the Bush administration let some of the wrong ones go. .

and so letting more “wrong ones” go is ok because Bush did it?

I have not in any way demonized the troops, nor has anyone who has replied in this thread. That is your incorrect assertion. I am critical of the Bush administration in this regard when it comes to the policy they created.

You and pocket both play a funny word games that will take time for me to learn the rules. Next time either of you say there are innocent men in gitmo who were framed I will have to remember that in now way does that mean the soldiers who arrested them knowing they are innocent are to blame and when there is talk of torture in no way is the soldiers who did the alleged torture to blame.

We can just say this stuff is going on and if we say Bush did it then its all ok. These accusations will in no way reflect on the troops.

What a joke

 

[pocketfullofshells]

This coming from a person who has in the past painted all religious people with broad brush accusations of condemnation, and general dislike.

Why is it everyone else is expected to be tolerant, but you?

where? when? post a quote . I know you will not be able to , because that would be fact based and go against your nature.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Monsters torture people, monsters frame innocent people and lie to say they did something they didn’t do. Monsters imprison people for no reason for long periods of time.

You are playing a game in my opinion, you say all this is happening but you blame Bush. Bush did not arrest them, or frame them or torture them or lie about them.

If our troops really have framed them, really have lied all this time about their situation, really have tortured them then our troops would be monsters…

I don’t think they did any of that. Though I do think there were those three cases of water boarding I do not think there is daily torture or even bi weekly torture or any of that going on there and I do not think those men were innocent and our troops decided hey lets nab these guys and we can frame them to look guilty. To say our troops are doing that is to say they are monsters.

just like I thought, not a damn word I have ever stated...your full of crap you claim I make our troops out to be monsters, and yet can't come up with anything can you? What because I acknowledge the fact that we have in fact yes tortured people? I guess I Know that due to the fact I can read , and we have admitted to it. US Army Prosecutors have dropped cased against people held for that very fact, that they found they had been tortured. WE know for a fact they have water boarded, And we have all seen the pictures from Iraq...but you just ignore away and act like non of it ever happened. You claim I have called our military Monsters...because of this. yet its the Military who has stated these facts. So I guess that means you just called them all liars.. And your fascist idea that if they are held, they must be guilty is against everything this nation stands for. And it in no way means the army is liking ..it means they could have bad Intel that led to that arrest..I know shocking cuz we are always 100% on that.

But its ok, we know where you stand. Torure, being held with no rights at all, no trials, no charges, and anyone who actuly points out facts to you must hate the army...When some other nation does the same to US citizens...I want to see you say the same thing, that those americans dont have any rights becuse they where taken to some other nation, and they are free to do anything they want with no proof...just the word of that nations army ( who even some of them say they are not a threat )