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"Green" expeditioin boat capsizes - then is rescued by supertanker

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Little-Acorn, May 7, 2009.

  1. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Al Gore's usual magic is still working. The silly global-warming fanatic has had lecture after lecture cancelled due to heavy snow, unseasonably cold temperatures, etc., until he finally changed the name of his supposed concern to "global climate change" instead.

    Gore had nothing to do with the "carbon neutral" expedition that set out for Greenland this spring, but they seem to have suffered a similar fate to his many failed lecture attempts. During their attempt to display just how viable their "green" technology was, their boat was lashed by severe storms, capsizing three times as their carbon-neutral equipment was systematically destroyed by wind and wave.

    The crowning insult came as they were rescued - by a supertanker carrying two-thirds of a million barrels of crude oil.

    Well, they did accomplish one of their goals: They conclusively proved just how viable their "green" equipment was in a real-world test.

    ------------------------------------

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/06/oil-tanker-rescues-green-activists-yacht

    When is a green activist glad to see 680,000 barrels of oil?

    Robert Booth
    The Guardian, Wednesday 6 May 2009

    It was meant to be a carbon-neutral adventure to fire the imaginations of 25,000 schoolchildren.

    Raoul Surcouf, 40, a landscape gardener from Jersey, and Richard Spink, 32, a physiotherapist from Bristol, shunned the polluting aircraft normally used to reach Greenland's polar ice cap and set sail in Fleur, a 40ft yacht fitted with solar panels and a wind turbine. Schools were poised to follow their green expedition online; once the duo had skied across the Arctic wastes they had hoped to boast of the first carbon-neutral crossing of Greenland.

    On Friday, nature, displaying a heavy irony, intervened. After a battering by hurricane force winds, the crew of the Carbon Neutral Expeditions craft had to be rescued 400 miles off Ireland.

    As if their ordeal wasn't terrifying enough, their saviour seemed chosen to rub salt in their wounds: a 113,000-ton tanker, Overseas Yellowstone, carrying 680,000 barrels of crude.

    In truth, the crew could not afford to be choosy. They were in a life-threatening predicament, and heaped thanks on Captain Ferro, the tanker's skipper, and his crew for being "outstanding in the execution of the rescue". But the rather awkward twist was not lost on Spink, who ruefully noted afterwards that "the team are now safely and ironically aboard the oil tanker" as they headed to Maine, where they are due to arrive in three days.

    "They are extremely relieved to just be alive," said Jess Tombs, a spokeswoman for the expedition. Were they feeling sheepish about being rescued by an oil tanker? "They were just relieved," she said. "We don't want to think about what the outcome would have been if they hadn't."


    (Full text of the article can be read at the above URL)
     
  2. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    way to point out that you nothing in the first sentence...global warming or climate change however you call it, causes extremes in different areas, and times,,,but overall is a global heating. Your one of those people who things one cold day outside equals proof its not real...also known as someone with no clue.
     
  3. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    Can someone please translate the above statement to coherent English?

    :rolleyes:
     
  4. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    He said your stupid for not suggesting that record cold, and massive snow fall, proves global warming exists.

    Duh... everyone knows that record snow fall is a sure sign of warming, globally or otherwise. Pff... these silly conservative science people...
     
  5. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see. So the thought was as incoherent as the statement. Guess I didn't miss anything important.

    Back to the subject:
    It's quite a hoot, that a bunch of green fanatics were whipped by the real world, then to be offered rescue by the very symbol of the hydrocarbon-consuming world they pretend to oppose - a supertanker carrying thousands of tons of crude oil.

    And stranger still: They accepted.

    Considering the thousands (millions?) of deaths that would inevitaby result if the world (particularly the United States) were to dial its lifestyle back to the level supportable by non-hydrocarbon-consuming technology. Say goodbye to fast helicopter rescue of stranded winter skiiers, car accident victims etc., as well as those who freeze from inadequate winter heating and those who don't have enough money left to buy food after paying inflated prices for "carbon-free" products and fuels. You'd think these yachters would have stuck with their message of trying to show people just what the world wold be like if we didn't consume fossil fuels, and pretended the tanker wasn't there when they needed rescue.

    Oh well, I guess some people only support their "ideals" as long as it doesn't inconvenience them too much.
     
  6. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    way to show ignorance as well, bravo.
     
  7. samsara15

    samsara15 Member

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    If we're going cite short term weather trends as clmate, which it is not, we may as well note that we had record breaking highs last week around the mid-Atlantic area a week or so ago. For the record, we also had very little snow last Winter.

    Score one for pocket
     
  8. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    same here, last few years warm winters overall, not much snow...even counting our days we hit -30...but damn it, thinking is hard, I am going to base my science for the whole earth on a few days weather in a few places...After all I never took a science class....
     
  9. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Ahhh, that explains why you believe that Mankind is cooking the planet with the greenhouse gas he exhales.... It explains why you don't think the decade of record solar activity played any role in our record temperatures over the same period, and why the suns current record state of inactivity has absolutely nothing to do with our current cooling trend...

    If only you'd have taken a science class.
     
  10. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Pocket is exactly right! You dumb conservatives pointing out dropping temps and massive ice sheets in Antarctica are all just ignorant of scientific evidence!
     
  11. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    look something shiny
     
  12. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! Shiny posters of "Inconvenient Truth" and a flashy graph that Al Gore splashes all over the place, is a perfect substitute for actual science!

    Stupid conservatives. We need to educate them!
     
  13. Pidgey

    Pidgey Well-Known Member

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    It seems so ridiculous to me to equate party affiliation with absoluteness. For instance: Al_Gore=Democrat=Flawlessly_Correct; or: Al_Gore=Democrat=Always_Wrong.

    Now... if you wanted to do it this way: Al_Gore=Politician=Always_Out_to_Get_Your_Money_+_Retain_Power, and then used that same logic with virtually all of them, you'd probably be a heckuva' lot more correct.

    In any case, there hasn't been a shift in globally averaged temperature of anything even approaching enough significance to have affected any climate yet. Everybody's still just using weather events to push their agendas. The current globally averaged temperature anomaly is approximately between a quarter to a half of a degree C, depending on which metric and base period you want to go with. Yes, the globally averaged temperature is currently falling and positively bleeding longwave radiation to space. That means that more is leaving Earth to the deep cold of space than was during the reference period. Yes, there are some extremely suspicious concurrent solar and heliosphere events in play that probably explain what's going on. If they were to continue, we could be in real trouble.

    There was one comment earlier in the thread about heat causing greater and more problematic weather events. Nope, that's not correct--it's not heat per se but the deltas that cause problems. "Delta" as used here refers to the difference between the temperatures in air, land and water masses. A larger delta would mean more motive power for convective events. Another way of looking at it would be the flow of energy from areas of greater energy content to areas of lesser energy content.

    The thing that nobody ever seems to mention is that the greater the emissivity of a gas composition, the more radiant energy will flow from the pockets of greater energy content to the areas of lesser energy content. If energy moves around more radiantly, it WON'T move around as much convectively. To folks like me who actually work with such gas compositions in the heat transfer field, that simple fact right there puts the lie to several of the claims made by the Anthropogenic Global Warming message.

    That said, follow the money. There is a huge amount of money to be made by the movers and shakers on the AGW side of the fence. Is BigOil really going to be affected? No, don't think so. There's a big wide world out there of folks who are going to thumb their noses at anything the U.S. does if they pass such legislation. Other countries are already forsaking that crap anyhow.

    I've run through a lot of the projecting realities (as in, putting real economic numbers to design and construct) for alternative power sources and I'm very sorry to say that none of them are promising. In the effort to get the same amount of physical work done like smelting ore, producing lumber products, lighting our homes and all that stuff, we're simply not going to do it as cheaply as carbon-based fuels.

    Period.

    End of story.

    But that said, the supply of carbon-based fuels is not infinite. Nor are the economics of their production and delivery to market stabile. We're looking at an exponentially decaying EROEI (Energy Return on Energy Investment). While that exponential is quite small, taken in combination with the exponentially increasing user base, we're falling behind and that IS the greatest magnifier for our current economic crisis.

    Corruption? Sure. There's always been corruption, and arguably at a somewhat constant percentage of the world's economy within economic cycles. Get rid of all corruption and all you're really going to do is increase the birth rate and decrease mortality... right up until you REALLY foul up the population/resource relationship that we're already dangerously crowding.
     
  14. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    you forgot the UN research, countless other studies, and the one by the Bush white house that said its real and man made. But just do what Rush tells you, don't actually know the science, its to hard I am sure.
     
  15. Pidgey

    Pidgey Well-Known Member

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    Scientists do studies to make a living. There will always be some possibility of conflict-of-interest, regardless of what side of the fence you're on.

    Take a minute to imagine how you'd manage the public if you were in power and stuck with the consequences of Peak Oil. Would you just openly admit to folks that our economy was going to start contracting with no way to keep growth going or would you try to convince folks of an emergency that requires that "we all do our part to help"?

    This is so obvious that it hurts.
     
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