Greetings from Flanders!

[DebianFox]

Hi all,

I'm from Flanders. Today Flanders is the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, a state which was artificially made up. I support either Flemish independence or a reunification with the Netherlands.

I'm conservative, centre-right, pacifistic and a Flemish separatist.

If you want to ask me why many Flemings support independence, well don't hesitate and ask it.

 

[numinus]

Hi all,

I'm from Flanders. Today Flanders is the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, a state which was artificially made up. I support either Flemish independence or a reunification with the Netherlands.

I'm conservative, centre-right, pacifistic and a Flemish separatist.

If you want to ask me why many Flemings support independence, well don't hesitate and ask it.

Why do many flemings support independence?

 

[DebianFox]

Why do many flemings support independence?

There are a lot of reasons why we want independence.

1) After the Belgian revolution Belgium has tried to eradicate the Flemish culture and the Dutch language within Belgium. Although the majority spoke Dutch, Belgium did not recognize Dutch as one of the official languages of Belgium. Belgium has always suppressed us, especially linguistically. French supposed to be the only language of Belgium ...

2) Belgium has never been a real country. It was artificially made up and there are no "Belgians". There is no Belgian language, no Belgian culture, no Belgian identity. Belgium unites 2 different people who have nothing to do witch each other. It unites Dutch-speaking Flemings and French-speaking Walloons.

3) Belgium remains divided by a linguistic struggle and by economic differences. Flanders is rich, Wallonia is poor. There are a lot of money transfers from Flanders to Wallonia. Flanders gives Wallonia each year more than 10 milliard €.

 

[Libsmasher]

I read that the British invented Belgium after the Napoleonic wars, with the Dutch-speaking and Protestant Flemings in the province of Flanders and the French-speaking and Catholic Walloons in the neighboring province of Wallonia.

National Review gave the following description of the current situation:

Flemings tend to be conservative, free-market-oriented, individualistic, while in contrast Walloons are socialist and collective-minded. Unemployment in Wallonia is almost double what it is in Flanders. Flemings see themselves as go-getters, and complain that they are obliged to subsidize undeserving free-loaders — they are 60 percent of the population but generate 70 percent of the national wealth which is then spent disproportionately in Wallonia. Not surprisingly, Walloons block proposed reforms that might diminish their social benefits. Paul Belien, a Fleming and an acknowledged expert in these intricacies, says that “what began as a language issue has turned into an economic issue” — which is of course a political issue too. The Flemish nationalist party, Vlaams Belang, proposes to cut through grievances by declaring Flanders an independent sovereign state. Polls show that almost half the Flemings are in favor.

By the way, this is kind of "funny": The EU is trying to unite europe, but they are located in a country that wants to split up. There are these divisive forces all over europe: Kosovo declared independence from serbia today, some scots want out of the UK, the basques want out of spain, and some northern italians want out of italy.

 

[DebianFox]

I read that the British invented Belgium after the Napoleonic wars, with the Dutch-speaking and Protestant Flemings in the province of Flanders and the French-speaking and Catholic Walloons in the neighboring province of Wallonia.

The main purpose of the Belgian revolution was the unification with France. The Belgian revolution was provoked by French-speaking Walloons and the French-speaking nobility, not the Flemings. The Flemish didn't want to secede ... Great powers offered resistance against a Greater France, that's why they've decided to create Belgium.

By the way, this is kind of "funny": The EU is trying to unite europe, but they are located in a country that wants to split up. There are these divisive forces all over europe: Kosovo declared independence from serbia today, some scots want out of the UK, the basques want out of spain, and some northern italians want out of italy.

Yeah Belgium is on the edge of splitting up, surveys have revealed more than 40 % of the interrogated Flemings want an independent state. At this moment we just have an interim government and Belgium simply ignores the result of the last elections ...

Charles_Rogier is one of the creators of Belgium. He ever said:

Les premiers principes d'une bonne administration sont basés sur l'emploi exclusif d'une seule langue et il est évident que la seule langue des Belges doit être le français. Pour arriver à ce résultat, il est nécessaire que toutes les fonctions, civiles et militaires, soient confiées à des Wallons et des Luxembourgeois; de cette manière, les Flamands, privés temporairement des avantages attachés à ces emplois, seront contraint d'apprendre le français et l'on détruira ainsi peu à peu l'élément germanique en Belgique.

So in English it means:

One of the most important principles of a good administration is based on the use of only one language, and of course the only language of the Belgians must be French. In order to achieve this, it's necessary all jobs, civil and military are given at Walloons and Luxembourgers. With this method are the Flemings, who couldn't benefit temporarily from having a job obliged to learn French, and that's the way we can eradicte all the Germanic influences within Belgium.

Some webpages concerning Flemish independence:

www.flemishrepublic.org
http://members.lycos.nl/vlaamssiteje/english.htm
http://home.online.no/~vlaenen/

 

[numinus]

There are a lot of reasons why we want independence.

1) After the Belgian revolution Belgium has tried to eradicate the Flemish culture and the Dutch language within Belgium. Although the majority spoke Dutch, Belgium did not recognize Dutch as one of the official languages of Belgium. Belgium has always suppressed us, especially linguistically. French supposed to be the only language of Belgium ...

2) Belgium has never been a real country. It was artificially made up and there are no "Belgians". There is no Belgian language, no Belgian culture, no Belgian identity. Belgium unites 2 different people who have nothing to do witch each other. It unites Dutch-speaking Flemings and French-speaking Walloons.

3) Belgium remains divided by a linguistic struggle and by economic differences. Flanders is rich, Wallonia is poor. There are a lot of money transfers from Flanders to Wallonia. Flanders gives Wallonia each year more than 10 milliard €.

I'm sorry but cultural diversity alone isn't quite a valid reason for establishing a separate and independent state -- especially when human societies are moving towards integration.

Unless, of course, such a diversity leads to a failed state.

Is this the case in belgium? Is the difference in culture an insurmountable obstacle to coexistence within a single polity?

 

[DebianFox]

I'm sorry but cultural diversity alone isn't quite a valid reason for establishing a separate and independent state -- especially when human societies are moving towards integration

Unless, of course, such a diversity leads to a failed state..

It's a mix of cultural diversity, linguistic diversity and economical diversity ... See my posts above.

Integration? We have some Flemish municipalities - which are related closely to the language boundary - with facilities for French speakers. What happened? Due to these facilities the French speakers refuse it flatly to integrate and now it's "frenchified" ... Some Flemish municipalities have a French-speaking majority, and now they want to change the language boundary. They want to annex these municipalities like Hitler claimed Sudetenland.

65 % of the Flemings can speak French fluently, whereas less than 20 % of the Walloons know Dutch. French is compulsory for Flemish children at school, French is our first foreign language. And yes, Dutch isn't compulsory for Walloons . By the way there are 6,2 million Flemings and less than 4 million Walloons.

 

[9sublime]

I find the idea that Belgium didn't have a government for over a hundred days fascinating, and although I'm not an anarchist it must give them some ground for an argument - as well as libertarians.

In an age of increasing technology, a large, centralised government is not only unncessary, but dangerous.

 

[numinus]

It's a mix of cultural diversity, linguistic diversity and economical diversity ... See my posts above.

Integration? We have some Flemish municipalities - which are related closely to the language boundary - with facilities for French speakers. What happened? Due to these facilities the French speakers refuse it flatly to integrate and now it's "frenchified" ... Some Flemish municipalities have a French-speaking majority, and now they want to change the language boundary. They want to annex these municipalities like Hitler claimed Sudetenland.

65 % of the Flemings can speak French fluently, whereas less than 20 % of the Walloons know Dutch. French is compulsory for Flemish children at school, French is our first foreign language. And yes, Dutch isn't compulsory for Walloons . By the way there are 6,2 million Flemings and less than 4 million Walloons.

I understand perfectly what you are saying. I am merely pointing out that language differences, in my opinion, is a shallow reason for separation.

Language is a unitive, not a divisive tool. It should be made to fit or evolve according to a people's identity, not the other way around. When a people wish independence for purely language and cultural reasons, it seems to me a fundamental inability to coexist.

 

[DebianFox]

I understand perfectly what you are saying. I am merely pointing out that language differences, in my opinion, is a shallow reason for separation.

Language is a unitive, not a divisive tool. It should be made to fit or evolve according to a people's identity, not the other way around. When a people wish independence for purely language and cultural reasons, it seems to me a fundamental inability to coexist.

There is also separatism in Québec (Canada), Catalonia (Spain), Basque Country (Spain) for the sake of linguistic diversity.

By the way, I'm happy with the fact that some people here from the USA and England have showed interess in Flemish independence and the problems within Belgium.

 

[ilikeboobs]

Mind if I call you Ned for short?
Welcome!

 

[numinus]

There is also separatism in Québec (Canada), Catalonia (Spain), Basque Country (Spain) for the sake of linguistic diversity.

Im aware of basque separatists, but canada???

How is the situation there different from, say, the welsh or irish in the uk?

By the way, I'm happy with the fact that some people here from the USA and England have showed interess in Flemish independence and the problems within Belgium.

Good for you, although I'm not from the states.

 

[DebianFox]

Mind if I call you Ned for short?

No, go ahead.

Welcome.

Thanks.

 

[DebianFox]

Im aware of basque separatists, but canada???

The Quebec referendum took place in Quebec on October 30, 1995, and the motion to decide whether Quebec should secede from Canada was defeated by an extremely small margin: 50.58% "No" to 49.42% "Yes".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum

Good for you, although I'm not from the states.

Oh, where then?

 

[vyo476]

I remember when I was in Quebec City a few years ago, they don't fly the Canadian flag anywhere. Not exactly a sign of solidarity, no?