Heresy

[Mare Tranquillity]

I am not talking of grammatical correctness, now, am I? You have tons of posts that are grammatically correct but painfully defective in logic.

Yes. That is the idea. You can throw in the muslims, jews, atheists, etc. Grace was offered UNILATERALLY AND ABSOLUTELY at the crucifixion.

I WAS talking about grammatical correctness. Logic proceeds from a basis, if that basis is left undefined, then it's easy to follow the logic to a logical fallacy.

This is a good examply of what I mean by your perspective being odd to me. On one hand you write about science and then you write about things quite antithetical to science like the religious myths that have no objective basis. It just seems odd to me.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

I do not owe mare an apology and mare does not owe me an apology.

Apparently not.

Apparently I did since I was the one who posted the definition and asked for a clarification on how you were using the word. Has anyone else ever heard of defining "church" as refering to everyone on the planet based on the concept of "grace" given to us all by nailing somebody up on a stick?

Original sin and God demanding blood revenge never made any sense to me. The Creator of the Universe demands that some poor bastard be nailed up on a stick before He will forgive all of us? Beggars the imagination.

 

[numinus]

I WAS talking about grammatical correctness. Logic proceeds from a basis, if that basis is left undefined, then it's easy to follow the logic to a logical fallacy.

grammar

1. the study of the way the sentences of a language are constructed; morphology and syntax.
2. these features or constructions themselves: English grammar.
3. an account of these features; a set of rules accounting for these constructions: a grammar of English.

How in heaven's name can grammar be the basis of logic, hmmm?

This is a good examply of what I mean by your perspective being odd to me. On one hand you write about science and then you write about things quite antithetical to science like the religious myths that have no objective basis. It just seems odd to me.

Do you find, say ,a doctor or engineer manifesting a spiritual life odd any more than a priest with a PhD in mathematics is odd?

Haven't you realized yet how truly bizarre your religious bigotry is?

 

[numinus]

Apparently I did since I was the one who posted the definition and asked for a clarification on how you were using the word. Has anyone else ever heard of defining "church" as refering to everyone on the planet based on the concept of "grace" given to us all by nailing somebody up on a stick?

Anyone versed in christian theology defines church as such. That is why I said your definition is naive.

Jesus' metaphor of destroying the temple and rebuilding it in three days should have made the definition obvious.

Original sin and God demanding blood revenge never made any sense to me. The Creator of the Universe demands that some poor bastard be nailed up on a stick before He will forgive all of us? Beggars the imagination.

Can you think of a better example of an act of love than the creator submitting himself to the judgement of his created?

Or do you naively believe that love is manifested by some sensory experience or material gain?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

I love the way you guys talk about what the bible says as some kind of fact.

Maybe you would do better to start from the fact that the bible is fiction.

The church is a body designed to control the masses and take their money. For most of the last few thousand years the religious leaders have also been senior government figures and they have exploited the masses' superstitions to dominate them.

That is why the church is so scared of science. It robs it of the illuison of truth and consequent power.

 

[numinus]

I love the way you guys talk about what the bible says as some kind of fact.

Maybe you would do better to start from the fact that the bible is fiction.

The church is a body designed to control the masses and take their money. For most of the last few thousand years the religious leaders have also been senior government figures and they have exploited the masses' superstitions to dominate them.

That is why the church is so scared of science. It robs it of the illuison of truth and consequent power.

What ignorant nonsense.

You seem oblivious to the fact that some of the best institutions of higher learning are run by religious orders. Which is why I'm wondering if you have even set foot in a college in your life?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Care to name them?

The flat earth society?

Creationsim over evolution?

The anti-heliocentric society?

 

[numinus]

Care to name them?

The flat earth society?

Creationsim over evolution?

The anti-heliocentric society?

Since the inception of the order, Jesuits have been teachers. Today, there are Jesuit-run universities, colleges, high schools and middle or elementary schools in dozens of countries. Jesuits also serve on the faculties of both Catholic and secular schools as well.

One of the most prominent of these universities is the Gregorian University in Rome, one of the Church's key seats of learning, associated in a consortium with the Pontifical Biblical Institute and Pontifical Oriental Institute.

In the United States, 28 Jesuit tertiary education institutions are organized as the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities, the oldest one being Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., founded by Bishop John Carroll in 1789, and the largest Loyola University Chicago. The 46 Jesuit high schools of America are organized under the Jesuit Secondary Education Association, with Saint Joseph's Preparatory School in Philadelphia being the most prestigious and well-known, having produced such alumni as Andrew von Eschenbach, the current commissioner of the United States Food and Drug Administration, and Michael Nutter, the current mayor of Philadelphia, the fifth-largest city in the United States. The Jesuits have recently opened a number of middle schools in poor neighborhoods in New York, Boston and Chicago. There are also Jesuits serving on the faculties of other Catholic colleges and universities; additionally they serve on many secular faculties.

In Latin America Jesuit institutions are organized into the Asociación de Universidades Confiadas a la Compañía de Jesús en América Latina (Association of Universities Entrusted to the Jesuits in Latin America).

In the Philippines, the Jesuit universities are all independent, although they maintain institutional ties. The Ateneo de Manila University, Ateneo de Naga University, Xavier University-Ateneo de Cagayan, Ateneo de Zamboanga University, Marian College of Ipil, and Ateneo de Davao University are all loosely federated. An affiliated association, Mindanao Consortium of Ateneo Universities, groups all of the Jesuit universities located in Mindanao island with the purpose of promoting Muslim-Christian unity and dialogue as well as to exchange knowledge and expertise in various academic fields.

In Australia, the Jesuits run a number of high schools including Xavier College, St Ignatius' College, Riverview, Loyola senior high school [Mt Druitt], Saint Ignatius' College, Athelstone and St Aloysius' College.

In Ireland, the Jesuits run five secondary schools: Belvedere College, Gonzaga College (both in Dublin), Clongowes Wood College in Clane, Co. Kildare, St Ignatius College, in Galway city, and Crescent College, which is in Limerick.

In the United Kingdom the Jesuit educational institutions are: St. Aloysius' College, Glasgow, Campion Hall, Oxford, Heythrop College (London), Mount St Mary's College (Sheffield) and Stonyhurst College (Clitheroe).

In Egypt, the Jesuits run College de la Sainte Famille, a private boys school in Fagalla, Cairo. They are also involved in charitable organisations in the South of the country.

In Belgium, the Jesuits run various secondary schools (high schools) such as "Sint-Jozefscollege" in Aalst (Dutch-speaking) and "Onze-Lieve-Vrouwecollege", "Xaverius College" and "Sint-Jan Berchmans College", al three in Antwerp (Dutch-speaking). "Universitair Centrum Sint-Ignatius" in Antwerp (Dutch-speaking; now part of "Universiteit Antwerpen") and the 'Facultés Notre-Dame de la Paix' of Namur (French-speaking) are both Jesuit universities.

In India, the Jesuits run top colleges and schools in the country including Loyola College, Chennai, St. Xavier's College, Mumbai, St. Xavier's College, Calcutta, Xavier Labour Relations Institute, Jamshedpur, Loyola School, Thiruvananthapuram, St Xavier's College, Thiruananthapuram, St Xavier's College, Palayamkottai, Loyola College, Kunkuri, St Xavier's College, Balipara, Xavier Institute of Management, Bhubaneshwar, St Joseph's College, Tiruchirapalli, St Xavier's College, Goa, Andhra Loyola College, Vijaywada, Loyola Academy, Secunderabad, Xavier Institute of Management, Bhubaneswar (XIMB), Xavier Institute of Social Service (XISS) and Xavier Institute of Development and Service (XIDAS), St Vincent's High School, Pune and St Xavier's College, Ranchi, St Xavier's College, Ahmedabad. They also run some of the top theological colleges in India the famous ones being Jnana Deepa Vidyapeeth, Pune (De Nobili College) and Vidyajyoti College of Theology, Delhi. They also run 9 Regional Theology Centers (RTC) for contextual theologies in diverse regions of the country. Their educational institutions also have some of the country's best sportspersons producing centers, prominent among them being St Ignatius High School, Gumla, St Mary's High School, Samtoli, Loyola School Jakhama (Kohima). Some of the top bureaucrats and politicians (including those opposing Christianity) are Jesuit school alumni.

In Indonesia, the Jesuits run seven junior and/or high schools, including Canisius College (SMP Kolese Kanisius), St.Mikael College, De Britto College, Loyola College, Junior High School of Wood Technology, Gonzaga College, and Le Coq d'Armanville College. All of those schools are junior high school and high school.

In Hong Kong S.A.R., the Jesuits run two secondary schools including Wah Yan College, Kowloon and Wah Yan College, Hong Kong.

In Japan, the Jesuits founded Sophia University. It is considered to be one of the best private universities in the country, and is one of Tokyo's top ranked private universities.

In Korea, the Jesuits are running Sogang University. It is established in February, 1960. It is founded by Art Dethlefs, Basil Price, Jin Song Man(진성만), Theodor Geppert, Ken Killoren and Clancy Herbst. Nowadays Sogang University is considered to be one of the best private universities in Korea.

In Taiwan, Jesuits founded the Faculty of Law and the Faculty of Management of the Catholic Fu-Jen University during the 1950s. In 2003 another new Faculty of Social Sciences was derived from the Faculty of Law. Thus until today, the Fu Jen Catholic University is still considered to be one of the best private universities in Taiwan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus#Jesuit_Educational_institutions

And that's just one religious order in one christian sect.

Duh?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Oh sorry, I thought you were going to say Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Cambridge, MIT or some other genuine seat of excellence.

The Royal Society is one of the most learned collection of scientists of all time and only 26% profess religious faith.

And that number is dwindling.

Religions is on the way out.

Thank God.

 

[numinus]

Oh sorry, I thought you were going to say Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Cambridge, MIT or some other genuine seat of excellence.

The Royal Society is one of the most learned collection of scientists of all time and only 26% profess religious faith.

And that number is dwindling.

Religions is on the way out.

Thank God.

The wiki article did mention oxford.

In the United Kingdom the Jesuit educational institutions are: St. Aloysius' College, Glasgow, Campion Hall, Oxford, Heythrop College (London), Mount St Mary's College (Sheffield) and Stonyhurst College (Clitheroe).

Duh?

 

[numinus]

Cambridge’s status as a university is further confirmed by a decree in 1233 from Pope Gregory IX which awarded the ius non trahi extra (a form of legal protection) to the chancellor and universitas of scholars at Cambridge.

After Cambridge was described as a studium generale in a letter by Pope Nicholas IV in 1290, and confirmed as such in a bull by Pope John XXII in 1318, it became common for researchers from other European medieval universities to come and visit Cambridge to study or to give lecture courses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Oh pulease.

The church controlled everything in the 13th century.

And that is now on the wane

Thank God

 

[numinus]

Oh pulease.

The church controlled everything in the 13th century.

And that is now on the wane

Thank God

And if the church did abhor science, as you so ignorantly claim, then why establish these institutions of higher learning, hmmm?

What unbelieveable stupidity!

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

That does not deserve a response.

Perhaps you are ignorant of the church's efforts to suppress a heliocentric view of our solar system.

Or its desperate attempts to undermine the greatest scientific discovery ever - evolution.

Cos beardy made the world in six days didn't he?

Yes, that makes sense

 

[numinus]

That does not deserve a response.

Certainly. Further response on your part would only make you appear more foolish.

Perhaps you are ignorant of the church's efforts to suppress a heliocentric view of our solar system.

Of course not. I am quite aware of the catholic church's history -- a history that prompted the late pope jp2 to offer the millenium apology.

I am also aware of the original us constitution's consent of slavery.

These facts do not demonstrate the church's abhorrence of science anymore than they demonstrate the us constitution's abhorrence of freedom.

Duh?

Or its desperate attempts to undermine the greatest scientific discovery ever - evolution.

Get your facts straight. The catholic church does not see any conflict between its own dogma with the theory of evolution presently.

You're probably talking about the redneck illiterate church that you attend.

Cos beardy made the world in six days didn't he?

Yes, that makes sense

And did the author of genesis specifically state that he was using the word day as the same 24 hour period we are using today?

Or are you unaware that 6 days can be made to dilate indefinitely long depending on the motion of one's reference frame.

Makes perfect sense.