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Hoover/Bush or FDR/OBAMA type leadership?

Discussion in 'Historical Events & Figures' started by top gun, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    I was watching an excellent documentary today on the Dust Bowl in the 30's and was struck by the comparison between President Hoover and President Roosevelt... and thought of the current Republican mindset vs. President Obama.

    On close examination it was easy to make some comparisons & form some conclusions.

    President Hoover even when families were choking to death and living on virtually nothing year after year from the Dust Bowl in Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico & Colorado he refused to help stating... The free market is the solution... as people men woman & children with virtually no money died of what was called dust pneumonia and suffered doing it with very little food and less water... no government help came under the Republican administration.

    It's also interesting to note that the root cause of the Dust Bowl in the first place was GREED. The government actually encouraged people to till up as much land as possible to try and overtake Russia as the top exporter of wheat. Of course we all know then the banks fell.

    Sounds a lot like the GREED our housing & banking system went into without proper regulation and a lot like the current Republican position that you don't save anybody... the free market must have total reign over everyone's lives.

    Here's some things that were said at the time. First about Herbert Hoover...

    A Hooverville in Central Park, New York. In the background are luxury
    blocks of flats.

    The 1932nd psalm went:

    'Hoover is my shepherd, I am in want,

    He maketh me to lie down on park benches,

    He leadeth me by still factories,

    He restoreth my doubt in the Republican Party.'

    Now let's look at the comparison to a President that actually did something in an economic emergency... FDR after his election...

    Timeline of The Dust Bowl

    1931

    Severe drought hits the midwestern and southern plains. As the crops die, the 'black blizzards" begin. Dust from the over-plowed and over-grazed land begins to blow.

    1932

    The number of dust storms is increasing. Fourteen are reported this year; next year there will be 38.

    1933

    March: When Franklin Roosevelt takes office, the country is in desperate straits. He took quick steps to declare a four-day bank holiday, during which time Congress came up with the Emergency Banking Act of 1933, which stabilized the banking industry and restored people's faith in the banking system by putting the federal government behind it.

    May: The Emergency Farm Mortgage Act allots $200 million for refinancing mortgages to help farmers facing foreclosure. The Farm Credit Act of 1933 established a local bank and set up local credit associations.

    September: Over 6 million young pigs are slaughtered to stabilize prices With most of the meat going to waste, public outcry led to the creation, in October, of the Federal Surplus Relief Corporation. The FSRC diverted agricultural commodities to relief organizations. Apples, beans, canned beef, flour and pork products were distributed through local relief channels. Cotton goods were eventually included to clothe the needy as well.

    1934

    May: Great dust storms spread from the Dust Bowl area. The drought is the worst ever in U.S. history, covering more than 75 percent of the country and affecting 27 states severely.

    June: The Frazier-Lemke Farm Bankruptcy Act is approved. This act restricted the ability of banks to dispossess farmers in times of distress. Originally effective until 1938, the act was renewed four times until 1947, when it expired. Roosevelt signs the Taylor Grazing Act, which allows him to take up to 140 million acres of federally-owned land out of the public domain and establish grazing districts that will be carefully monitored. One of many New Deal efforts to reverse the damage done to the land by overuse, the program was able to arrest the deterioration, but couldn't undo the historical damage.

    December: The "Yearbook of Agriculture" for 1934 announces, "Approximately 35 million acres of formerly cultivated land have essentially been destroyed for crop production. . . . 100 million acres now in crops have lost all or most of the topsoil; 125 million acres of land now in crops are rapidly losing topsoil. . . "

    1935

    January 15: The federal government forms a Drought Relief Service to coordinate relief activities. The DRS bought cattle in counties that were designated emergency areas, for $14 to $20 a head. Those unfit for human consumption - more than 50 percent at the beginning of the program - were destroyed. The remaining cattle were given to the Federal Surplus Relief Corporation to be used in food distribution to families nationwide. Although it was difficult for farmers to give up their herds, the cattle slaughter program helped many of them avoid bankruptcy. "The government cattle buying program was a God-send to many farmers, as they could not afford to keep their cattle, and the government paid a better price than they could obtain in local markets."

    April 8: FDR approves the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act, which provides $525 million for drought relief, and authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration, which would employ 8.5 million people.

    April 14: Black Sunday. The worst "black blizzard" of the Dust Bowl occurs, causing extensive damage.

    April 27: Congress declares soil erosion "a national menace" in an act establishing the Soil Conservation Service in the Department of Agriculture (formerly the Soil Erosion Service in the U.S. Department of Interior). Under the direction of Hugh H. Bennett, the SCS developed extensive conservation programs that retained topsoil and prevented irreparable damage to the land. Farming techniques such as strip cropping, terracing, crop rotation, contour plowing, and cover crops were advocated. Farmers were paid to practice soil-conserving farming techniques.

    1936

    May: The SCS publishes a soil conservation district law, which, if passed by the states, allows farmers to set up their own districts to enforce soil conservation practices for five-year periods. One of the few grassroots organizations set up by the New Deal still in operation, the soil conservation district program recognized that new farming methods needed to be accepted and enforced by the farmers on the land rather than bureaucrats in Washington.

    1937

    March: Roosevelt addresses the nation in his second inaugural address, stating, "I see one-third of the nation ill-housed, ill-clad, ill-nourished . . . the test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." FDR's Shelterbelt Project begins. The project called for large-scale planting of trees across the Great Plains, stretching in a 100-mile wide zone from Canada to northern Texas, to protect the land from erosion. Native trees, such as red cedar and green ash, were planted along fence rows separating properties, and farmers were paid to plant and cultivate them. The project was estimated to cost 75 million dollars over a period of 12 years. When disputes arose over funding sources (the project was considered to be a long-term strategy, and therefore ineligible for emergency relief funds), FDR transferred the program to the WPA, where the project had some success.

    1938

    The extensive work re-plowing the land into furrows, planting trees in shelterbelts, and other conservation methods has resulted in a 65 percent reduction in the amount of soil blowing. However, the drought continued.

    1939

    In the fall, the rain comes, finally bringing an end to the drought. During the next few years the country is pulled out of the Depression and the plains once again become golden with wheat.


    Roosevelt converted retreat into advance through his New Deal programs, addressing poverty, unemployment, and the floundering economy. Through his reforms, Roosevelt created a new kind of presidency, more powerful and more intimate than that of his predecessors. Congress allowed him free reign, giving him executive power to put through his reforms without a quibble during the first 100 days of his presidency. Yet a man at the time observes, "My mother looks upon the president as someone so immediately concerned with her problems and difficulties that she would not be greatly surprised were he to come to her house some evening and stay for dinner."
    With the passage of programs like the Social Security Act, Roosevelt made sure that the federal government would be connected to the people for a long time to come.

    With his death in 1945, Americans mourned the passing of a President and a friend.


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Saxon

    Saxon Member

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    Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini or Franco. Any one of these, thank you.
     
  3. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    I seeeeeeee!:rolleyes: Good choices.

    Thanks for keeping it short.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    obama is far more like jimmy carter than any other president so far
     
  5. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    You look at the multiple major domestic and economic problems left President Obama by the Bush administration and then read the whole post on Hoover/FDR...

    The do nothing let people fend for themselves free market only Hoover Republican approach.

    vs.

    Do something, if government has to spend a bunch to save lives & safeguard American families economic conditions while stabilizing and jump starting the economy then by GOD we'll do it! These are American families we're saving here FDR approach.

    Yep the conclusion has to be... Obama is the FDR of our time.;)


     
  6. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Do you think FDR was as weak and spineless as obama is on dealing with other countries? N Korea and Iran are both worse than ever since obama started "ruling"

    Personally I did not like FDR so saying he and obama are similar does not impress me, but really I do not think they are. I really think obama is far more like Carter just worse.
     
  7. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    I think both FDR and Obama were perfect for their time. The country was coming off of terrible Republicant leadership and the country needed someone that both truly cared about the masses... and was focused enough & smart enough to get the job of helping American families done... actually push a plan.

    And never underestimate calm & deliberate for weak. President Obama is a lot like Billy Jack... watch.;)

     
  8. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't jimmy carter coming from terrible repubican leadership? Watergate?

    He is more like jimmy, even today he stuck up for that dictator who was ousted, but never could muster up the spine to speak up for the people of Iran for a week or two and that was forced.
     
  9. Saxon

    Saxon Member

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    Please tell me from whence your hero, FDR, stole his ideas? That is correct. Adolf Hitler, and his Nazis. The USA began to recover from the Depression using policies created by the Nazis. Would you care to argue this point?

    The Nazis were the most-efficient government the world has ever seen. Care to argue THIS point too? The part I loved about the Americans was the famous 'they mistreat da Joos!!!', whilst slapping Blacks down, hanging them from trees etc. Gotta love hypocrisy.
     
  10. Saxon

    Saxon Member

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    Ah yes, Jimmy Carter, the peanut. The man who waffled, moaned and groaned whilst my people were sneaking Americans out of Iran. Along comes Reagan, and for the first time, the Iranians begin to learn what it felt like to **** their pants. A damn shame NEITHER President handled the crisis properly. Allow me to tell you a little story, a story which would explain how a FASCIST government would have handled the hostage crisis, although I am quite embarrassed I require Communists to make my point.

    What many people do not know is that the Iranians had ALSO captured the Soviet embassy, kidnapping the Soviet people inside. All the attention was on the capture of the American embassy though, and I shall explain why.

    The moment the Iranian students took over the Soviet embassy, the Soviet Union immediately went into action. They warned the Iranian religious leadership that to continue to remain on Soviet property was to invite retaliation. The Iranians ignored them. The Soviets captured Khomeini's #2 man, took him to the Soviet Union, and sent him back to Tehran, and Khomeini, in several different boxes. Then, the Soviets began to move their Backfire bombers to forward bases, and, according to declassified KGB files, Khomeini was warned that if the embassy and its staff were not released, Tehran would reside under a mushroom cloud. Knowing that the Soviets were simply too brutal to bother with bluffing, the Iranians immediately abandoned the Soviet embassy, and allowed their staff to leave. All this whilst Carter was waffling, whining for his mommy.

    There can be no greater proof that force works. I KNOW the fascists would have done exactly the same thing, with the Nazis destroying Tehran anyway just to warn any other nation about the stupidity of dealing with Nazi citizens in like manner.
     
  11. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Jimmy Carter had no outside jumper...

    BILLY JACK OBAMA DOES!
    :)

     
  12. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I did not know about the Russians, Very interesting. I don’t have a problem with sending him back in different boxes, Iran had it coming.

    But what about WW2 and what happened to the Jewish people? That was wrong and terrible don’t you think?

    And the bread lines in the USSR and the government not letting people have freedom. That part bothers me.

    If you ran Canada how would you run it? Would you stick with free (haha) health care? Would you raise or lower taxes? Would the people be free to own guns? Would you abolish the banned book list?
     
  13. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    You compare obama to Billy Jack ?????????

    Thems fightin words!
     
  14. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Never mistake calm for weak when the longing for justice is strong. It was with Billy Jack... it is with President Obama.

     
  15. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Billy Jack is NOTHING like obama, my gosh! obama... if he has a spine, he has not found it yet and he could not fight his way out of a paper bag..

    Call him anything but Billy Jack!
     

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