steveox
Well-Known Member
Ever since the government stopped spending the stock market grew! So Theres your answer how to improve the economy,, STOP SPENDING!!!
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Is the Economy improving?
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Cruella
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What is happening in the stock market today has nothing to do with spending.
when did the govt stop spending ?
when did it even slow down ?
when was the last time it even spent just the same as the year before (much less less) ?
when did it even slow down ?
when was the last time it even spent just the same as the year before (much less less) ?
The government say's yes.. at least for now, you should believe them- that all really is well. Or as well as free money can make a stock market, as opposed to, say, a REAL ECONOMY....this economy is not real! And that's one reason why we are seeing so little volatility in the stock market, as opposed to, say, the jobs market. At least volatility as measured by the VIX. While the VIX has briefly touched these low levels previously the VIX never stay's worry free for long periods of time. But it will stay low as long the central bankers intervene and give away money, as they are doing now. The VIX is called the "fear index" for a reason. It measures how much fear there is the in the market... but today it should thought of, as the "un-fear" index because it also measures greed. In this case, greed is not a negative, but an agnostic term. Who doesn't like free money for the stock market? Not much fear in that. So you can buy today with confidence knowing that there will be another guy in line tomorrow ready to buy, his pockets lined with fresh, central bank money. This to will END..
I use the COTHSPL index when evaluating the health of the economy. For those unfamiliar with COTHSPL index, it is a measure of Cars On The High School Parking Lots in my county. About fifteen to twenty years ago all the high schools in my county had to expand the parking lots for students who drove to school. The economy was booming and parents could afford a car for their kids to drive to school and the high school student parking lots were full. Now those same high school student parking lots are almost empty and the few cars that are there are in pretty sad condition. (I walk my dog in a park next to my local high school) When the student parking lots start to fill up again I will believe the economy has recovered...
I use the COTHSPL index when evaluating the health of the economy. For those unfamiliar with COTHSPL index, it is a measure of Cars On The High School Parking Lots in my county. About fifteen to twenty years ago all the high schools in my county had to expand the parking lots for students who drove to school. The economy was booming and parents could afford a car for their kids to drive to school and the high school student parking lots were full. Now those same high school student parking lots are almost empty and the few cars that are there are in pretty sad condition. (I walk my dog in a park next to my local high school) When the student parking lots start to fill up again I will believe the economy has recovered...
When you see the vacant homes in your town with new owners in them. When you start seeing more jobs than there are folks looking for one. When you start seeing all the overnight start ups of “Cash for Your Car Title” hole in the wall business’s closing their doors and putting ‘Out of Business” signs in their windows. When you start seeing the out of town pawnshop operators opening branch stores in your town closing the doors to their shops, THEN you will know that things are getting better. This is whats real..
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
The Stock market hits record highs....Unemployment is down ...nearly 200,000 jobs added last last month...I know personally sales are up quite a bit for me...and the people I deal with are feeling better about spending more...so yes its getting better...And It would have been faster had we actuly done the smart thing and spent more. The time for the Goverment to cut...is when the Private Sector is spending...when its not spending...The Goverment should.
steveox
Well-Known Member
Yall should be on your knees and kiss this mans ass.
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You should be thanking him shuting down Obamas spending machine.
You should be thanking him shuting down Obamas spending machine.
Gipper
Well-Known Member
Yeah everything is peachy...go out an buy yourself a new home and a new car too...run up that credit card...since the economy is GREAT.
Nothing to worry about. Obama has fixed it.
Cruella
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Yeah everything is peachy...go out an buy yourself a new home and a new car too...run up that credit card...since the economy is GREAT.
Nothing to worry about. Obama has fixed it.
And unicorns poop out skittles.
And just what or who do you base your opinion on...do you even understand what free money is? In our history what your talking about has never worked..
I will accept at face value that all of your statements are true -- in fact the stock market is up, unemployment is down etc etc -- we can debate the reasons behind that, but for these purposes I accept at face value all of these statements are accurate and offer no opinion as to any reasoning behind these things.
That said, you state, "The time for the Goverment to cut...is when the Private Sector is spending...when its not spending...The Goverment should." So, I ask you this. With all of these signs that the private sector is spending again -- as you point out -- what plans have been put in place to cut back government spending? The Budget we are seeing from Senate Democrats (after a multiyear wait) increases spending fairly significantly over the next decade...by about 62% -- and faster than the projected rate of inflation.
Paul Ryan's (th Republican) budget still increases spending as well - in a range of 3.4% per year, as opposed to over 5%. President Obama has yet again missed the deadline for him to submit his budget proposal -- so who knows what to expect from him -- I would wager it will be the worst of the 3 options out there.
So -- for those Democrats who make the argument that you do -- the time to spend is when the private sector doesn't, and the time is cut is when the private sector is spending -- I am left with one of either two assumptions about proponents of this theory:
1) Proponents of this theory must believe the private sector won't be spending for at least the next decade in any meaningful way.
2) Proponents of this theory do not actually believe the "cutting" half of their own theory.
Cruella
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It worked for the Weimar Republic....for a little while, until...........
as noted above wall street is up on money we are not evan borrowing but printing like monopoly money
unemployment is maginally down but primarily because of the millions abandoning the employment rolls
im glad for those seasonally adjusted 200k but thats not far from breakeven
im glad you are exprriencing better sales but thats kind of anecdotal
we HAVE spent lavishly to no effect (as always happens)
i think its fair to posit that we would have been further ahead had we done nothing at all.
steveox
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pocketfullofshells
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Do I think they should start cutting now? no...Unemplyment is still to high and the gains are shaky at best still. Also all spending and savings are not equal so one has to judge what to cut and spend with that in mind..We should spend...but in things that are investments and provide jobs...And cutting where we can as we don't need it...well thats something that should be done when ever its agreed its not needed. Regardless of the econ...But cutting things that are viewed as needed, such as teachers and police and upgrading the power grid, roads and other things have long term benefits, and short term as well. Where I think major cuts should come from is the one Republicans and I am guessing you..don't want ...The Military. The huge amounts of waste and programs that no one needs but are pet projects are a huge drain, and as we pull out of Afganistan, are done with Iraq...we should be doing that. If there is some agreement on some reforms for programs like Medicare or SS that will save money I am always open to them...if they don't effect the basic idea of the program ( ideas like makeing them private or vouchers...are pulling away from the system...means testing or changing some rules about ages or something of that nature...I would be willing to listen to. And I would be fine with lowering rates...if we dumped most of the breaks and made sure that companies and the rich realy had to pay there taxes at fair and still progressive rates)
Also as far as your 2nd idea...I am not a democrat so I never claimed them to be perfect....though Republicans don;t actuly cut when in office...and lower taxes so we bring in less...and spend far more...I would at least take spend more and tax more...at least thats consistent. Goverment has actuly grown less under Obama then Bush...and I think same was true under Clinton though would have to look more at that.
Best thing to bring down the debt...would be jobs...and jobs don't come from cutting.
