ISLAM is EVIL !

[vyo476]

Hey Mr. lb, the Muslims aren't a part of our culture! As evil is defined by society, they define "evil" for themselves - and guess what, we're it! As far as they're concerned we're as evil as you can come, just like you're convinced they're evil.

All this finger pointing..."He's evil!" "No he's evil!" "No he's evil!" That really doesn't accomplish anything other than fostering international hatred. Maybe it'd be better to point that finger at the large majority of the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world who don't blow other people up.

Calling them evil by your own cultural definition is (as I stated earlier in this thread and everyone but Roker ignored me) as fair as the early American colonists calling the Indians savages and driving them off the land. All that cross-cultural intolerance resulted in a whole boatload of misery, some of which has lasted into the present day. Do we really need to repeat that sort of thing?

 

[jb_1430]

The problem isn't the religion per se - but the mixing of religion into government. (among a lot of other things)

The problem you are missing is that in Islam, religion and government are one in the same.

Khilafah is one of the most important issues in Islam, many
versus in Quran and many Hadiths of the Prophet ordered Muslims
to establish such a system. Ruling by Islam is the most frequent
issue discussed in Quran after the belief and creed. Therefore,
Khilafah was discussed by many Muslim scholars, the following are
the definition of some of them to Khilafah.

1: Ibn Khaldoon defined it as: A representation, of the one
who has the right to adopt the divine rules, aimed at
protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia) with it.

2: Al-Mawirdi defined it as: Succession of the Prophethood
aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia).

3: Taqiudine al-Nabhani, (founder of Hizb at-Tahreer) defined
it as: A total leadership for all the Muslims aimed at
implementing the Shariah of Islam and carrying the Message
of Islam to the world.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~luqman/Belief/Khilafah/one.html

or to quote Qutb from an earlier post.

Islam is not merely a belief, so that it is enough merely to preach it. Islam, which is a way of life, takes practical steps to organize a movement for freeing man. Other societies do not give it any opportunity to organize its followers according to its own method, and hence it is the duty of Islam to annihilate all such systems, as they are obstacles in the way of universal freedom.

MARK

 

[jb_1430]

So, let me understand this correctly: you feel the words of extremists are representative of the mainstream of a relgion?

I believe the topic is "Islam", not muslims. Fortunately not all Muslims are "fundamentalist" who strictly follow the fundamentals of Islam as expressed in their written doctrine.
"Extremist" is one of those words, similiar to "evil". What is evil to me is likely different than what is evil to an Islamic fundamentalist. MARK

 

[ArmChair General]

I believe the topic is "Islam", not muslims. Fortunately not all Muslims are "fundamentalist" who strictly follow the fundamentals of Islam as expressed in their written doctrine.
"Extremist" is one of those words, similiar to "evil". What is evil to me is likely different than what is evil to an Islamic fundamentalist. MARK

So your a moral relativist then?

 

[Coyote]

The problem you are missing is that in Islam, religion and government are one in the same.



or to quote Qutb from an earlier post.




MARK

They are in any fundamentalist form of the three Abrahamic faiths.

 

[jb_1430]

Hey Mr. lb, the Muslims aren't a part of our culture! As evil is defined by society, they define "evil" for themselves - and guess what, we're it! As far as they're concerned we're as evil as you can come, just like you're convinced they're evil.

I wouldnt argue with you on that point. We in the US are the pinnacle of what Qutb refers to as Jahiliyyah. Qutb was educated in the US. He found our culture repulsive and antithetical to Islam. The pinnacle of man's "servitude to his own desires," MARK

Jahiliyyah, on the other hand, is one man's lordship over another,...
It always takes the form of a living movement in a society which has its own leadership,its own concepts and values, and its own traditions, habits and feelings. It is an organized society and there is a close cooperation and loyalty between its individuals, and it is always ready and alive to defend its existence consciously or unconsciously...
This movement(Islam) uses the methods of preaching and persuasion for reforming ideas and beliefs and it uses physical power and Jihaad for abolishing the organizations and authorities of the Jahili system which prevents people from reforming their ideas and beliefs but forces them to obey their erroneous ways and make them serve human lords instead of the Almighty....
It became incumbent upon Islam to strike back and release man throughout the earth from the grip of these usurpers. The eternal struggle for the freedom of man will continue until the religion is purified for God...
Islam is not merely a belief, so that it is enough merely to preach it. Islam, which is a way of life, takes practical steps to organize a movement for freeing man. Other societies do not give it any opportunity to organize its followers according to its own method, and hence it is the duty of Islam to annihilate all such systems, as they are obstacles in the way of universal freedom.

 

[vyo476]

I wouldnt argue with you on that point. We in the US are the pinnacle of what Qutb refers to as Jahiliyyah. Qutb was educated in the US. He found our culture repulsive and antithetical to Islam. The pinnacle of man's "servitude to his own desires," MARK

Then don't you see how pointless it is to call them evil?

 

[jb_1430]

They are in any fundamentalist form of the three Abrahamic faiths.

Fallwell just died yesterday. He is a christian fundamentalist. They usually advocate voting Republican and returning our government and society back to the fifties, not a theocracy. As well the written christian doctrine doesnt advocate any such thing. The christians, according to doctrine "Leave to Ceasar, that which is Ceasar's". MARK

 

[jb_1430]

Then don't you see how pointless it is to call them evil?

Im an American and an atheist, I consider them evil. Original post and links refered to a religious conception of evil. I dont. I consider waging jihad to restore Islamic rule to the empire, and then the world to be antithetical to a modern, advanced civilization that can provide a pleasant life for myself and future generations. And therefore EVIL!!!!!! MARK

 

[jb_1430]

So your a moral relativist then?

Certainly not. Islamic doctrine that advocates Islamic rule for all of mankind IS EVIL, even though muslim fundamentalist consider the same thing to be the pinnacle of glory to allah. They are wrong, I am right. MARK



Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

[2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

 

[Coyote]

Fallwell just died yesterday. He is a christian fundamentalist. They usually advocate voting Republican and returning our government and society back to the fifties, not a theocracy. As well the written christian doctrine doesnt advocate any such thing. The christians, according to doctrine "Leave to Ceasar, that which is Ceasar's". MARK

Hardly...

Consider the following from a rather significant minority of the American Christian culture:

"It is difficult to assess the influence of Reconstructionist thought with any accuracy. Because it is so genuinely radical, most leaders of the Religious Right are careful to distance themselves from it. At the same time, it clearly holds some appeal for many of them. One undoubtedly spoke for others when he confessed, 'Though we hide their books under the bed, we read them just the same.' In addition, several key leaders have acknowledged an intellectual debt to the theonomists. Jerry Falwell and D. James Kennedy have endorsed Reconstructionist books. Rushdoony has appeared on Kennedy's television program and the 700 Club several times. Pat Robertson makes frequent use of 'dominion' language; his book, The Secret Kingdom, has often been cited for its theonomy elements; and pluralists were made uncomfortable when, during his presidential campaign, he said he 'would only bring Christians and Jews into the government,' as well as when he later wrote, 'There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world.' And Jay Grimstead, who leads the Coalition on Revival, which brings Reconstructionists together with more mainstream evangelicals, has said, 'I don't call myself [a Reconstructionist],' but 'A lot of us are coming to realize that the Bible is God's standard of morality . . . in all points of history . . . and for all societies, Christian and non-Christian alike. . . . It so happens that Rushdoony, Bahnsen, and North understood that sooner.' He added, 'There are a lot of us floating around in Christian leadership James Kennedy is one of them-who don't go all the way with the theonomy thing, but who want to rebuild America based on the Bible.'" (Martin 1996:354)

Among the practices they would legislate:
(http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm)

If they gained control of the US or Canadian federal government, there would be many changes:

The use of the death penalty would be greatly expanded, when the Hebrew Scriptures' laws are reapplied. People will be executed for adultery, blasphemy, heresy, homosexual behavior, idolatry, prostitution, evil sorcery (some translations say Witchcraft), etc. The Bible requires those found guilty of these "crimes" to be either stoned to death or burned alive. Reconstructionists are divided on the execution method to be used.

A church or congregation which does not accept the Mosaic Law has another god before them, and is thus guilty of idolatry. That would be punishable by death. That would include all non-Christian religious organizations. At the present time, non-Christians total two-thirds of the human race.

The status of women would be reduced to almost that of a slave as described in the Hebrew Scriptures. A woman would initially be considered the property of her father; after marriage, she would be considered the property of her husband.

 

[Fred]

Im a muslim your all incorrect in your meanderings

 

[vyo476]

Im an American and an atheist, I consider them evil. Original post and links refered to a religious conception of evil. I dont. I consider waging jihad to restore Islamic rule to the empire, and then the world to be antithetical to a modern, advanced civilization that can provide a pleasant life for myself and future generations. And therefore EVIL!!!!!! MARK

They have their civilization, you have yours. A few people in theirs like to blow us up; a few people in ours like to do the same to them. Most of them just want to be left to their beliefs; most of us just want to be left to ours. Calling them "evil" is antithetical to easing tension.

 

[ArmChair General]

Im a muslim your all incorrect in your meanderings

Isn't there a market somewhere where you should be blowing yourself up in?

 

[Fred]

Praise be to allah Infidel

death will find you in the deepest recess's of the earth