Isn't it all just interpretation?

[Helicitor]

Sam, I am glad to see someone willing to discuss points of view. How we see the world does influence how we feel about the issues.

I don't think we pay enough taxes, at either state or federal level.

I believe far too much of what we spend is wasted. Hence, our taxes are wasted. No one ever does a cost versus benefit analysis of most social programs. Also, I'd like to see more money returned to the states and local jurisdictions. Local government is usually more responsive to the people.

I think our military is much too large and aggressive. I'm not sure an aggressive policy has made any headway against terrorism. I think we have reached the level of paranoia on terrorism. A day or two ago I discovered I may have been a victim of identity theft, using various versions of my full name, some of which were not even correct That could put me on the no-fly list, or even you, if you were so victimized.

The people who joined the military, for the largest part, joined to get education and health benefits, not to control the country or the world. If Obama told them to take over America tomorrow, they wouldn't. If he told them to erase Iran from the face of the earth (in the absence of a nuclear attack) they wouldn't, because those are not legal orders. Short of those extreme cases, the President controls the armed forces and Congress appropriates the operational funds.

Death Penalty and abortion are akin issues. One left, one right.

I don't see them that way.

On abortion, late term, would you let mothers die, to save the baby, or vice versa? Would you save damaged babies, but deny care to healthy, but low income adults?

I see abortion as murder for the convenience of the mother. The one exception is when it is life for life--either the mother's life is in danger, or a twin's life is in danger. These cases are tragic, and can only be addressed between a woman, her husband if she has one, and her doctor.

On abortion, I'd be willing to consider defining when life begins in the same way we define when life ends--presence of heart beat and brain function. In humans, the heart starts beating around 18 days, and brain waves have been recorded at 40 days. That should leave enough time to deal with rape victims and accidents, and would also end the courts jurisdiction over the issue.

We don't currently deny care to anyone.

I have no strong feelings on the Death Penalty, other than commenting that it stops repeat offenders, but does not otherwise ever seemed to have a very good deterrent.

The death penalty is Justice--pure and simple. My only reservation is the concern I have that an innocent person could get executed. I don't see the criminal Justice system as providing a deterrent. I believe the majority of my fellow citizens carry a deterrent from crime around in their heads--it's called a conscience. All I want is for people who commit crimes to pay an appropriate penalty, and for murder, that is paying with their lives.

If I felt the country had deteriorated to the point where most people didn't have a conscience, I'd support a dictatorship. Such a people are incapable of governing themselves.

I would welcome a Conservative heath care alternative. The present system is falling apart, and will get worse as time passes.

As would I. I want to find a way to address the unjustified costs of health care, and to put more health decisions in the hands of the people. For instance, I'd like to see antibiotics sold like pseudoephedrine is today. I could save a lot of trips to the doctor if more drugs were available this way.

I do realize I am often wrong, and that my judgment is sometimes faulty, and that sometimes, the other side has more claim to prudence than my own. I'm just not sure when. None of us, and no faction, has any lock on good sense.

In a democratic society where people from different backgrounds view the same issues through differing world views this is only to be expected.
It's only when people are unwilling to talk that the alternatives to democracy start to rear their ugly heads--violence and civil war. We're not there yet.

 

[samsara15]

The idea that reality conforms to opinion is not intellectually sound. Progress can only be made when opinion conforms to reality. Oddly enough progressives hate this idea.

That's an amusing idea. So you think that you, or anyone else, ever sees reality? I suggest you take a look at some forums where religion and philosophy are more seriously discussed than they are here, such as Volconvo. There are also some purely Philosophy forums. You will find that the ground you stand on is very shaky indeed.

 

[samsara15]

My observation is that local goverment is not any more responsive to the will of the people than national government. Look at the excesses perpetuated by 'neighborhood covenants', for example.

As far as abortion is concerned, I see us as very far apart. I would extend the rights of a person only to those classically defined as people - those born alive.

As for taxes, I believe those who have received the most benefits from a society owe the most back to that society.

I have done military service, and I have seen some unprincipled military people willing to sacrifice the lives of others, even those in their own units, for the benefit of their own careers. Let it be noted that such people are by no means limited to the military. No profession has a lock on virtue.

 

[Helicitor]

As far as abortion is concerned, I see us as very far apart. I would extend the rights of a person only to those classically defined as people - those born alive.

I'm curious if you have kids. I remember my first glimpse of my daughter on ultrasound. Fully formed and fully human. That really hardened my opinion.

As for taxes, I believe those who have received the most benefits from a society owe the most back to that society.

I feel those who haven't taken care of themselves owe the most to society. I've been working since the age of 12, and have always taken education and other opportunities seriously. I now make very good money, and pay more in taxes than my parents made in a year. I met people all along the way, many of whom are now permanent "tax eaters." What they lacked in ambition, they've made up for in getting politicians to take my money and give it to them. I don't owe them a thing.

I do feel a responsibility to those who, through no fault of their own, cannot earn enough to survive. If only my taxes were spent on them, versus the serial underachievers....

I have done military service, and I have seen some unprincipled military people willing to sacrifice the lives of others, even those in their own units, for the benefit of their own careers. Let it be noted that such people are by no means limited to the military. No profession has a lock on virtue.

True that, but not as numerous as unprincipled politicians, I think.

I didn't find such careerist to be systemic, certainly not to the point where they'd be able to stage a coup, or start a meaningless war. That still takes a politician.

My broad generalization was only meant to convey that there are real failsafes unintentionally built into our current system of government that many don't consider, because we've not seen a civic breakdown of such a magnitude that it'd be apparent (thankfully) in the last 40 years.

 

[Capitalist Pig]

That's an amusing idea. So you think that you, or anyone else, ever sees reality? I suggest you take a look at some forums where religion and philosophy are more seriously discussed than they are here, such as Volconvo. There are also some purely Philosophy forums. You will find that the ground you stand on is very shaky indeed.

Sorry, but no. You are suggesting that nothing is true, and nothing is false so long as people disagree. I'm not talking about unprovable things like the existence of a higher power. I'm talking about here and now in the real world. Reality is absolute samsara. This will be true no matter how many moral dilemma examples you attempt to provide. The ground that I am standing on couldn't be more solid than it is.