Its official, Mubarak has turned power over to the army!

pocketfullofshells

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
12,009
Location
land of 10,000 lakes and 2 senators again
Victory in Egypt, Mubarak is Down. hundreds of thousands protest for weeks with no stop, over 300 dead, countless wounded....and now comes the hard part...making a real democracy. A great start, and a end of 30 years of dictatorship. I hope what comes from this, makes the 300+ who died proud for what they died for.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
 
Werbung:
And now the poor Egyptians will likely get an Islamic dictatorship.

Just as Jimma did to the Shah, BO does to Mubarak.

Liberals always fail to learn from history...or is it they learn the wrong things?
 
And now the poor Egyptians will likely get an Islamic dictatorship.

Just as Jimma did to the Shah, BO does to Mubarak.

Liberals always fail to learn from history...or is it they learn the wrong things?

the tired cry of Iran...get over it...one day you will understand they are not the same. Just keep supporting Dictators who beat and kill there people for wanting free speech, elections, and a voice in there government.
 
Pew poll of what Egyptians want:

ON ISLAM IN POLITICS

-- Is it good that Islam plays a large role in politics? 95 percent said "yes" and 2 percent "bad."

-- Is Islam's influence in politics positive or negative? 85 percent said "positive," 2 percent said "negative."

-- How much of a role does Islam play in Egyptian politics now? 48 percent said "large" and 49 percent said "small."

-- Is there a struggle between groups that want to modernize Egypt and Islamic fundamentalists? 31 percent said "yes." Of them, 27 percent described themselves as modernizers and 59 percent called themselves fundamentalists.

ON ISLAMIST EXTREMISM

-- Are suicide bombings justified? 46 percent said "never," 34 percent "rarely," 12 percent "sometimes" and 8 percent "often." (NOTE: Support for suicide bombing has dropped since 2006, when 28 percent said they were justified sometimes or often.)

-- Are you concerned about Islamist extremism in the world? 70 percent said they were "very concerned" or "concerned."

-- Are you concerned about Islamist extremism in Egypt? 61 percent said they were "very concerned" or "concerned."

ON FOREIGN ISLAMIST MOVEMENTS

-- What do you think of Hamas? 49 percent were favorable.

-- What do you think of Hezbollah? 30 percent were favorable.

ON TRADITIONAL MUSLIM PRACTICES

-- Should men and women be segregated in the workplace? 54 percent said "yes" and 44 percent "no."

-- Should adulterers be stoned? 82 percent said "yes."

-- Should apostates from Islam face the death penalty? 84 percent said "yes."

-- Should thieves be flogged or have their hands cut off? 77 percent said "yes."

-- What do you think of al Qaeda? 20 percent were favorable.

-- Do you have confidence in Osama bin Laden? 19 percent said "some" or "a lot," 73 percent said "not much" or "none." (NOTE: Confidence in bin Laden has fallen from 27 percent in 2006).

ON DEMOCRACY

-- Is democracy preferable to any other kind of government? 59 percent said "yes."

-- Can a non-democratic system be preferable in certain circumstances? 22 percent said "yes."

-- Is it irrelevant to you what kind of government you have? 16 percent said "yes."​

A majority are Islamic fundamentalists, want Islam to play a larger role in Egyptian government, seek the segregation of women, wish to kill people who convert from Islam to other religions, find some justification for suicide bombings... Conspicuously missing from the questions is whether or not Gays should be put to death.

Yeah Pocket, Egypt is going to become something other than an Islamic state ruled by Sharia law. :rolleyes:
 
first have of that is extracting quite a bit from questions..such as how do you feel about Hamas....Support for Hamas...in Palinstine...does note mean they want that in Egypt. Hamas is one of the only groups helping the people of Gaza and the west bank...They do alot...besides attacking Isreal...but of course you don't hear that reported.

Is it good that Islam plays a large role in politics? 95 percent said "yes" and 2 percent "bad."

First, ask that same question of Christians, bet you get a high number as well, replacing Islam for Christians...the nation is Muslim by in large...and yes there faith is going to have some influence on there ideas and government...tends to happen in a Democracy...

46 percent said "never," 34 percent "rarely," when ask if suicide bombings are ok...so thats what 80% right there...with almost half overall saying never..And I would also agree there are I am sure, some rare cases where it may be ok...I know horrible of me...of course your fine with torture of people
and killing them for calling for free speech and democracy...so you have little to stand on in my view.

(are you concerned about Islamist extremism in the world? 70 percent said they were "very concerned" or "concerned.")
I guess that one slipped your mind there...The nation of Egypt is going to turn into a Muslim Extreamist nation...but nearly 3/4 of very worried about just those people...hmmm

Are you concerned about Islamist extremism in Egypt? 61 percent said they were "very concerned" or "concerned."...odd they are even less concerned about them in there own nation...wounder why...maybe they know they don't the power there...unlike other nations the US sucks off..like SA.

Should men and women be segregated in the workplace? 54 percent said "yes" and 44 percent "no." How long did it take the US to do that? How long till they could vote? Also ever think you know what...it would be interesting to see how that poll breaks down by age...I am willing to bet, you put the young educated people on there...its quite different then the old who are going to die off while the young are a much larger growing part of the nation.
But did not seem that they had a problem standing in the street protesting with each other did they? Where as of course in Saudi Arabia ( where there is no democracy) you could be beaten for being with with someone of the opposit gender...and trust me I know, my female friend lived there for years.

"What do you think of al Qaeda? 20 percent were favorable."
also means...80% where not. But its a nice spin is it not?

Is democracy preferable to any other kind of government? 59 percent said "yes."
hmm 59%...you know in a Demcoracy ( unless in the US sentate with Republicans in the Minority of course) 59% enough to pass . But of course it would be hard for Mubarak, his supporters, and his security forces to say yes on that one....as they know they would lose.

IN the system right now a very small percent had decided Democarcy was not good..and they won.


-- Can a non-democratic system be preferable in certain circumstances? 22 percent said "yes." ..ok? and? you agree 100% with this...and I am sure most people could think of a utopian idea where a different system could be better...or that a Democracy could be very bad. Does not mean they want something else.

Is there a struggle between groups that want to modernize Egypt and Islamic fundamentalists? 31 percent said "yes." Of them, 27 percent described themselves as modernizers and 59 percent called themselves fundamentalists.

Shocking...you mean the moderizers and the fundamentalist dont agree and there is struggle between them? Honestly thats lower then I would say then here in the US ...Where we are strugling against fundamentalist as well..they just happen to be Christian.

SO you have to pick Modernizer or Fundamentalist...Funny seems to me there are quite a few ideas in the middle there. But a well rigged poll to get what you want maybe?




Fact is, no Egypts Democracy will not be the same as the US...It will be flawed...But you know what?: so was ours at its start. Rights only went to Rich white land owners who where male...We had Slavery still. Not exacly a winning start to Democracy was it? but you know what he had? a chance to change things...the Freedom to say things like...Slavery is wrong...Woman should have the right to vote...and even when they where not popular ideas...you did not go to jail for them...you did not get shot by the government for it...you did not get tortured for saying it...and you have the right to have a paper that said it....and you know what happened over time? Free Speach and newer better ideas had the chance to spread and take over....Often as the old generations died off and the new ones took over...

Right now, the ideas you want...or suggest you want...you did not have the right to talk about in Egypt...There was no debate on the issues you talk about...meaning the other viewpoint does not get herd easy. You don't think polls in West Germany before the wall came down and they got freedom...would look very different then just 20 years later after being able to have it?

You claim to be against all these things...yet you back the very system that had made extreamist, and fundamentalism stong in the middle east. And your against the very system and ideas...that threw history ...have been the ones that have broke down those ideas and values.
 
Does anyone else remember that Mubarek came to power from the last time Egypt was put under military rule in the last coup ?

If Egypt has a constitution, as POS so often points out, does it give the prez the right toss that out and go to military rule ? Do you really think the military will relinquish control to rabble they do not control ?

And then ask yourself if maybe that military might be more interested in all those arms they get from us ? Those things are to keep Iran at bay now that Iraq is less a threat.

All that being said, this is best for the US despite Obama. Its business as usual for Egypt. Suez Canal is safe, alls right with the world.
 
Is it good that Islam plays a large role in politics? 95 percent said "yes" and 2 percent "bad."

First, ask that same question of Christians, bet you get a high number as well
We know... only Christianity poses a threat to the civilized world. :rolleyes:

46 percent said "never," 34 percent "rarely," when ask if suicide bombings are ok...so thats what 80% right there...
46% say never, that means a majority, 54%, think suicide bombings are justifiable at least some of the time.

I would also agree there are I am sure, some rare cases where it may be ok...I know horrible of me...
I don't doubt you do support suicide bombing, especially when it's used to kill those evil Jooz and Christians.

of course your fine with torture of people and killing them for calling for free speech and democracy...
Since we're just making stuff up about what the other supports... You're fine with child rape and the execution of gays.

(are you concerned about Islamist extremism in the world? 70 percent said they were "very concerned" or "concerned.")
I guess that one slipped your mind there...
It's because of their concern over Islamofascism, they will be more likely to push for stricter enforcement of Sharia law, in hopes their country will not be attacked by fellow Muslims.

The nation of Egypt is going to turn into a Muslim Extreamist nation...but nearly 3/4 of very worried about just those people...hmmm
Never claimed it would become an "Extreamist" (sic) nation, only an Islamic State under Sharia Law.

odd they are even less concerned about them in there own nation...wounder why...
Because the Egyptian people are sympathetic to the cause but not necessarily the means.

Should men and women be segregated in the workplace? 54 percent said "yes" and 44 percent "no." How long did it take the US to do that?
Right now they are not segregated but you think it's fine for womens rights to be set back 100 years in the name of "Democracy", that's rich.

59%...you know in a Demcoracy ... 59% enough to pass.
Democracy is mob rule, which we all know you support, whereby that 59% is free to violate the rights of the other 41%.

I know... Lets have a "democratic" poll here on the forum, if 51% of the people vote to have you banned, you get banned, 51% say you can stay, you stay... Sound fair?

Fact is, no Egypts Democracy will not be the same as the US...It will be flawed...But you know what?: so was ours at its start. Rights only went to Rich white land owners who where male...We had Slavery still. Not exacly a winning start to Democracy was it?
America was established as a REPUBLIC, not a Democracy... You clearly don't know the difference.

they where not popular ideas...you did not go to jail for them...you did not get shot by the government for it...you did not get tortured for saying it...and you have the right to have a paper that said it....and you know what happened over time? Free Speach and newer better ideas had the chance to spread and take over....Often as the old generations died off and the new ones took over...
Unless you want to say something against Islam in the new Egypt, in which case they want the power to put people to death for speaking against Islam... Or being gay... or having a marital affair... or any other violation of Sharia that calls for the death penalty.

You claim to be against all these things...yet you back the very system that had made extreamist, and fundamentalism stong in the middle east. And your against the very system and ideas...that threw history ...have been the ones that have broke down those ideas and values.
As usual, all you can do is spout lies about what I believe. I offered no support for the Mubarak dictatorship, I'm glad it's over, but unlike you, I'm not naive enough to think what replaces it will be sunshine and lollipops, it will be an Islamic State under Sharia Law. Somehow pointing out the obvious makes you think I supported Mubarak, I guess because you think people should be allowed to rape children.
 
Victory in Egypt, Mubarak is Down. hundreds of thousands protest for weeks with no stop, over 300 dead, countless wounded....and now comes the hard part...making a real democracy. A great start, and a end of 30 years of dictatorship. I hope what comes from this, makes the 300+ who died proud for what they died for.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

It's a great day for the whole world. Will they be able to get his personal fortune and that of his children and his wife back into the national treasury? We know he's got money stashed everywhere overseas, but can they get it back?
 
Now,,, Sarah Palin should Anounce her candidacy for president of the united states right now. Let the Liberals know about the Future. Its time to get off Arab Oil and Drill in Alaska.
 
We know... only Christianity poses a threat to the civilized world. :rolleyes:


46% say never, that means a majority, 54%, think suicide bombings are justifiable at least some of the time.


I don't doubt you do support suicide bombing, especially when it's used to kill those evil Jooz and Christians.


Since we're just making stuff up about what the other supports... You're fine with child rape and the execution of gays.


It's because of their concern over Islamofascism, they will be more likely to push for stricter enforcement of Sharia law, in hopes their country will not be attacked by fellow Muslims.


Never claimed it would become an "Extreamist" (sic) nation, only an Islamic State under Sharia Law.


Because the Egyptian people are sympathetic to the cause but not necessarily the means.


Right now they are not segregated but you think it's fine for womens rights to be set back 100 years in the name of "Democracy", that's rich.


Democracy is mob rule, which we all know you support, whereby that 59% is free to violate the rights of the other 41%.

I know... Lets have a "democratic" poll here on the forum, if 51% of the people vote to have you banned, you get banned, 51% say you can stay, you stay... Sound fair?


America was established as a REPUBLIC, not a Democracy... You clearly don't know the difference.


Unless you want to say something against Islam in the new Egypt, in which case they want the power to put people to death for speaking against Islam... Or being gay... or having a marital affair... or any other violation of Sharia that calls for the death penalty.


As usual, all you can do is spout lies about what I believe. I offered no support for the Mubarak dictatorship, I'm glad it's over, but unlike you, I'm not naive enough to think what replaces it will be sunshine and lollipops, it will be an Islamic State under Sharia Law. Somehow pointing out the obvious makes you think I supported Mubarak, I guess because you think people should be allowed to rape children.



I am sorry you don't support Mubarak..you want some different dictator to hold the people down ...right?

the US is a republic...and a Democracy....and you dont even know what Egypt will be when they decided do you? no you just guess and figure well all muslims are the same so all will turn in to Iran ( who of course voted out there leaders...only to have the vote rigged)

And yes I support Suicide bombing...but against Christians and Jews....Wow shocking more mindless...if you don't support Israel you hate Jews...Bull. But yes guess what, at some point , in some war, its possible that a suicided bombing may not be worse thing in the world..That does not say that a suicide bombing on civilans is ever a option to look at..but that was not the question.

I honestly only read half your crap, as its more of the same ....

Why not just say, They are Muslims so they can't have any rights because it may effect yours...and thats all you care about...you...You don't have to hide it, thats all you ever care about...your rights ...anyone else, who cares.
 
pocketfullofshells, et al,

I think you will agree that the Egyptian Armed Forces have, SO FAR, distinguished themselves as the "Lord Protectors of Egypt and Knights of the People."

wait the Swiss did something ethical with regards to money? Guess them going after them a few years finally got them to wake up to the fact there is a Difference between being a neutral nation..and just being a money laundering nation for high income Criminals.
(COMMENT)

If they carry this "peaceful transition of power and government" off for the citizens of Egypt, they will have become the best model of any muslim Middle Eastern military force since the time of the Great Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn and his chivalrous behavior.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Mubarak said he would never run away - he wants to die in Egypt so we'll see how much he loves his country by how much of his money he brings back to it.
 
Werbung:
Why not just say, They are Muslims so they can't have any rights because it may effect yours...and thats all you care about...you...You don't have to hide it, thats all you ever care about...your rights ...anyone else, who cares.

Shall I sink to your level and just hurl unfounded accusations about what you believe? That's clearly your idea of having a discussion, which is really pathetic, but you obviously have nothing else to bring to the table.

I said the people of Egypt should decide for themselves what government they should have, that the US should not interfere, that includes offering support to dictators in that or any other country. However, as a result of Egypt choosing their own government, I understand they will likely choose to become an Islamic State under Sharia law. It's their choice, I'm not saying we should stop them, just pointing out the likelihood of that outcome.

Your response? Since you have no facts to contradict my theory, and no facts to support your own theory, you attack me with strawmen, claiming that I love and support US puppet dictatorships, that I hate muslims and don't care about their rights, that I support torture, blah, blah, blah...

MEMRI has produced two video compilations of some of the extremist statements of Youssef Qaradawi. The first collection contains Qaradawi’s statements about Europe and the US as well as about Israel and Jews. Some of these statements have been discussed in previous posts including Qaradawi stating:

  • Islam will conquer Europe through peaceful means.
  • Hitler was divine punishment for the misdeeds of the Jews and that the Holocaust was exaggerated.
  • He desires to end his life in the service of Jihad by visiting Israel and throwing a bomb, becoming a “martyr” in the process
  • Calling for the death of all Jews.
  • Calling for the collapse of the US if it doesn’t end its “unjust ways.”

The second collection contains various statements by Qaradawi on social issues such as discussing the killing of homosexuals and stating that beating is “suitable” for some wives.

Youssef Qaradawi is often referred to here as the most important leader of the global Muslim Brotherhood, an acknowledgement of his role as the de facto spiritual leader of the movement. In 2004, Qaradawi turned down the offer to lead the Egyptian Brotherhood after the death of the Supreme Guide. Based in Qatar, Sheikh Qaradawi has reportedly amassed substantial wealth through his role as Shari’ah adviser to many important Islamic banks and funds. He is also considered to be the “spiritual guide” for Hamas and his fatwas in support of suicide bombings against Israeli citizens were instrumental in the development of the phenomenon. Qaradawi has written that all Jews and all Muslims will fight each other in a final battle in which Muslims will emerge victorious. - Globalmbreport

Youssef Qaradawi considers himself a "moderate" muslim who fears "exremist" muslim groups. If this guy is "moderate", what exactly is an extremist?
 
Back
Top