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Kneeling during the National Anthem

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by The Scotsman, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    The UK hosted the Baltimore Ravens and Jacksonville Jaguars at Wembley Stadium yesterday and some of your fellas brought their gripes to the UK TV screens... and it seems Trump just poured petrol on the fire.....

    The guy must learn that giving the issue oxygen just gives the protest more life.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...lls-nfl-boycott-latest-attack-sportsmen-bend/
     
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  2. Walter

    Walter Administrator Staff Member

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    Thats against his nature :)
     
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  3. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    NFL fines each member oh the Pittsburgh Steelers one million dollars for failure to appear for the national anthem.
    Guess They got the message that failure to act was a mistake.
     
  4. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    NFL Fines Pittsburgh Steelers $1M Each for Skipping National Anthem?
    www.snopes.com/steelers-fined-1m-each
    Claim: The NFL has fined Pittsburgh Steelers players $1 million each for staying in their locker room during the national anthem.
    Claimed by: Internet
    Fact check by Snopes.com: FALSE

    Some people are really too gullible!
    The supreme court has ruled in 1943 that no one can be forced to salute or stand during the Anthem or in front of the flag.
    To all the ignorant red necks and those misguided "patriots" who confuse kneeling during the anthem as an insult to the flag, you should first realize that the kneeling is NOT about disrespecting the flag, and even less about disrespecting our soldiers, death or alive, it is about protesting the treatment of minorities by the overwhelming White majority over the centuries, and the continued mistreatment of Black people today.
    And, it is everyone's right to protest in a peaceful manner and to kneel during the anthem. That right was sustain by the courts in 1943, as this court ruling states:

    "Supreme Court decision in 1943, Barnett vs West Virginia State Board of Education ruled in a 6-3 decision: ."The Court emphasized that under the Bill of Rights, neither freedom of speech nor freedom of worship may be curtailed by the popular vote of a legislative assembly, unless it is through the amendment process set forth in Article V of the U.S. Constitution, and then only with the approval of three-fourths of the states.
    Justice Jackson observed that the Founding Fathers "set up government by consent of the governed, and the Bill of Rights denies those in power any legal opportunity to coerce that consent. "Saluting the American flag and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance are forms of symbolic expression, the Court ruled. Refusing to salute the flag or recite the Pledge of Allegiance may be a form of political protest, the Court pointed out, or it may reflect a conscientious decision made by a person of devout religious belief. In either case, the Court concluded, such symbolic expression is protected by the First Amendment. "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation," the Court wrote, "it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."

    This court case has come and gone, and the FREEDOM of speech has won.

    Trump made a fool of himself AGAIN!
     
  5. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    But the contract can and does say where you must appear.
     
  6. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    It just seems a shame that they have to bring their gripes to work and in front of an audience that is there to see sport not political/civil protest.
     
  7. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    No argument.
    If they want to help, rent lawyer's for the people they think are being wtonged.
     
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  8. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Really? Then why bring confederate flags to Nascar? And where else can a just cause have as much coverage as during football matches? Aren't the flag and the anthem. . . POLITICAL? Simple. . .it it wasn't political. . .why would Trump even mention it? Doesn't he have better things to do?

    Freedom of speech doesn't have to be kept in "corners" and pushed in the dark. Freedom of speech values IS TO BE HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR.

    Why are players protesting PEACEFULLY about a recognised and long lasting discrimination being called "sons of bitches," because "they don't respect the US Flag and soldiers" (which is NOT the purpose of the kneeling), but White supremacists, neo-nazis, and KKK's who are violently protesting and encouraging more violence and even death are determined by our "clown in chief" to "have many good people among them?"

    Could it be because the first group is mostly BLACK and protesting unfair treatment of BLACK people. . .while the second group is WHITE and protesting. . .the "equal rights of Blacks?"

    SICK!
     
  9. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how some people seem to have a reading comprehension issue. . .especially when what there is to read demonstrates that they are WRONG!

    The original statement was: "NFL fines each member oh the Pittsburgh Steelers one million dollars for failure to appear for the national anthem.
    Guess They got the message that failure to act was a mistake."

    The REALITY is: " The NFL has fined Pittsburgh Steelers players $1 million each for staying in their locker room during the national anthem.
    Claimed by: Internet
    Fact check by Snopes.com: FALSE "

    Seems pretty clear to me!. . .nothing was said in the first "claim" about a "contract," it was simply a outright LIE.

    I guess, since the clown in the White house has been recognised as a liar by the whole world, it is now acceptable for the Trump addicts to lie as well. . .and to explore their "alternate reality" world!
     
  10. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    your views seem to be echoed in the States...
    Washington Post

    However, call me stupid as you likely will but I am still not convinced that the sports field is a forum of protest no matter how high profile the event(s) are? I don't agree with Trump that the protest has anything to do with dissing the military or the country or any of that bolloks. This is a local issue that has spread to become a national issue with those that simply don't like Trump and what he has said (or tweeted) and Trump has made it a national issue by being a complete wanker about it. The killing of a number black people by white police officers is a matter for local law enforcement to deal with...hopefully this is being addressed in the courts.... if its' required.

    The Baltimore Ravens and Jacksonville Jaguars were invited to the UK as ambassadors for their sport and their country and it just seems a shame that they bring their local issues to London when we have enough problems of our own to deal with. Maybe I'm being naive, however, I think that for black-Americans this issue must be so far down the list of all the issues that they have as to make it a pointless exercise. To me this form of protest goes to the heart of those attending a sports event and can only alienate the wider public from supporting the cause. My feeling is that most people watching the game are more interested in the starting line ups, the in-game stats and the final score.
     
  11. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    I respect your opinion, but I continue to believe that, if a voice is not heard, and injustice and discrimination doesn't only continues but GROW, any peaceful means to propagate the truth and to gather support for a just cause is worthy.
    I also believe that you are correct, and that if the clown in the White House had shut his stupid mouth, the kneeling would not have spread so wide and abroad! And yet, it is time that the whole world become aware of the increasing mistreatment of Blacks in the US. . .often by those who are paid to PROTECT them! This is a human right issue, which is obviously of concern to the whole world . . .and the US has already received warning about the increased violations in terms of human rights since Trump took office!

    Again. . .what do you think those confederate flags are all about during EVERY NASCAR events?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  12. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    America seems to agree with you Scotty.
    There's a time and a place. Where people have paid good money to see an event is neither.
    Never mind that disrespecting the country does not speak to the issue at all.
     
  13. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Lets review the facts... a hand full of incidents occur across the country. They are investigated, every one of them, in a few cases the police were found to have done wrong, in the majority, they were exonerated.
    Now I get that it sucks to lose all the time but that's just the way it is.
     
  14. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    To be frank mate, I have adsolutely no clue about NASCAR or the folk that go. Do all people that go wave one... apart from the dukes of hazard IQ brigade is it relevant to the identity of the spectators? I haven't got a clue so I will defer on this point:)
     
  15. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    That's a fair point, however, I guess that then leads to the question of why Trump decided to make such an issue of it! Why not leave it alone and as you say let it remain a local law enforcement issue! Why is his CofS not keeping a tighter grip on his boss's twitter account!!
     
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