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Land of the free?

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by rejs7, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. rejs7

    rejs7 New Member

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  2. lipmonkey

    lipmonkey New Member

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    Before I watch 5 plus minutes of it, what's the point you are making?
     
  3. rejs7

    rejs7 New Member

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    Looking at the current crop of American leaders vis a vie those of the past & asking if America still is the land of the free.
     
  4. lipmonkey

    lipmonkey New Member

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    Thank you.:cool:
     
  5. baldar

    baldar New Member

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    Allow me to comment as we swarm into the historic mythos of America.

    Jefferson was a cad, that slept with his slaves and was the starter of "dirty politics" in the US.

    In my view George Washington is possibly the only man ever to have lived up to his mythic reputation. The more I learn about him, the greater I think he is.

    Also taking quotes out of context is sooo Michael Moore. ;)

    Overall a relatively trite inaccurate portrayal taking the quotes out of context and placing images that had nothing to do with the people making the quotes on them to make us assume a false responsibility. Definately from the Michael Moore school of "documentaries".
     
  6. rejs7

    rejs7 New Member

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    Thank you - it's nice to be compared to a palm d'or & oscar winner :D
     
  7. baldar

    baldar New Member

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    You would change your mind if you worked for Moore or met him.

    But then if you consider lies for the sake of a "greater truth" to be worthy of study, one is left to question the information you might present in posts here.

    I won't disparage your supposed honesty, but can you really admire a man that lies? I know someone who worked with Moore, not a big wig, just a regular worker. Moore ripped them off and told the union to pound sand.

    So when I use the image of "Moore" I use it in the context of falsehood. There are lots of bad men that have received many rewards and awards, I wouldn't want to be compared to them.
     
  8. drippinhun

    drippinhun New Member

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    The earth my stop, but on the point you make about George Washington, I agree. However, remember he was sacking out Lord Fairfax's wife, Sally, when the Lord was on his many journeys. But unlike Henry Hyde's humerous remark about his youthful indiscretions when he was in his 40s, Mr. Washington was really a young man when he was rather overty rambunctious with his next door neighbor.
     
  9. baldar

    baldar New Member

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    He wasn't sleeping with the wife of Farifax. Never had. He did love her, but thought too much of her and himself and his reputation to do so. It is something I have looked into. He was as stiff necked as he could be, but I must tell you, he lived up to his reputation.
     
  10. Justinian

    Justinian New Member

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    hmm

    I agree. I believe this reflects the truth.
     
  11. rejs7

    rejs7 New Member

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    America has produced amazing rulers in times of adversity - Washington, Kennedy, Roosevelt, Lincoln etc - but the point I tried to make in the video is that the current crop of GOP leaders is making a mockery of that herritage.

    I did not try to take the quotes out of context, rather sat them side-by-side with each other with no judgement at all - I actually used two intelligent Bush quotes, and an intelligent Cheney one - there are far worse quotes out there than the ones I used.
     
  12. Castle

    Castle New Member

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    I found it interesting how you cleverly spun racism as a conservative issue.
    While I was viewing the burning cross, I thought "curious how you never mention West Virginia Senator Robert Byrd." This liberal was unanimously elected to be the leader, known as the Exalted Cyclops, of his local chapter of the KKK....but you already knew that right?

    Very clever.

    -Castle
     
  13. rejs7

    rejs7 New Member

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    Thanks for the heads up - I was merely trying to create a sense of where the current undertoe of discrimination might lead - hense why I put the liberated concentration camp survivours at the end - America set them free on principle.
     
  14. OPGhostdog

    OPGhostdog New Member

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    The issue that we face in government isn't based on which
    political party has the most racist members in a group.
    However the issue does show how people in both parties is
    abusing their power.

    If we the people is the government. Then why are we allowing
    this crap to ruin our government image? Now lets talk about the
    land of the free. I enjoy watching Mike Moore's documentaries,
    and I think its Mike's rights to express his opinions by means of
    making movies.

    What I am clearly seeing is most of you Republicians dislike the
    guy because of his style to show the facts how Bush has screwed
    America. I (personally) visit the area of Flint Michigan which is
    Mike's home, and I have found Mike to be a very interesting guy.

    Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts ..I don't do the 4th of
    July. Because of MY RIGHTS to feel that we are far from being
    Independent. Free to do what? Yet again many of you would say
    Ghostdog, you have more freedom then people in other countries.
    Sure...that's your opinion, and you are right. Again, I also have
    my opinions too.

    In closing..what we need to do is to examine the true meaning
    the Land of the Free, and see if we are really free as we claim to be.
     
  15. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

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    Excellent question. The answer, if I'm not much mistaken, is that we've just gotten so incredibly wrapped up in "the process" that by the time we see the result there isn't a whole lot that can be done about it without violating the law.

    Yes, he's interesting. Yes, he's funny. Yes, he has every right to continue spreading his opinion in whatever way suits him. No, his films are not enjoyed by conservatives, for two reasons - one, those films attack them the whole time, and two, they're propaganda.

    I just walked outside my house and yelled "President Bush is a dirty pedophile!" at the top of my lungs. Insulting the leader in power like that is one of our freedoms. If I found a bunch of other people who felt the same way, I could form a grassroots organization denouncing President Bush's alleged pedophilia. If we got enough supporters rallied to our cause, we could take our case to Washington - a massive letter writing campaign, a march on the White House, angry signs written in Sharpie on those neat multi-colored poster boards...the whole deal. If we made enough noise and had enough support, we could get President Bush impeached and thrown out of office.

    You can't do all that alone - you have to have the support of a large number of people. While this may seem as though it is forcing you to be a slave of the masses, look closely and you'll realize that it is a necessary evil: if you could circumvent all of them you would be disregarding their opinions and violating their rights, even if they agree with you. Perhaps especially if they agree with you - that's how fascism starts.

    So there's your political freedom...social freedom we're still working on, admittedly. Jim Crow is dead but racial profiling remains. Roe vs. Wade stands but is constantly under attack. Gays can't get married anywhere but Massachusetts while bigots stand around saying that they're afforded total equality. It's a work in progress, but it has been a work in progress since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. These things don't happen overnight.

    And finally, there's economic freedom. Capitalism is railed against as being completely unfair to the poor and a catering service for the wealthy. For one thing, I'd like to point out that that happens in all economic systems - the wealthy, those who control the power, are naturally in the best position to procure more of it. Those without wealth are naturally in the worst position to procure more, because of a lack of resources.

    However, the economic system of the United States has evolved to give the poor more chances. Public education seeks to give poor children the education required to then be eligible for college, which the federal government is willing to pay for if the student does not have the means (although FAFSA is very strict in its definition of "does not have the means"). According to US Census figures, the household income of those without college degrees averaged about $40,000 in 2000, while the income of households with college degrees averaged very close to $70,000. Education equals money.

    So in conclusion...yeah, this is still the Land of the Free.
     
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