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Laying Myth To Rest

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Sihouette, Jun 22, 2008.

  1. Sihouette

    Sihouette Active Member

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    There is a myth circulating right now that the primaries are over and that a democratic candidate has been chosen.

    The facts are that the primary season is still open. The state elections are the first part of it. The second part is the vote at the convention in August. As it stands, Obama led delegates early on to get him a lead by June. But that lead was being closed-in on, suggesting there was a new trend in voter consideration of who was best.

    Additionally, Clinton got more actual popular votes. Obama did his best to disqualify and hamstring Florida and Michigan. After all, not allowing their voices to be fully heard played in his favor politically. And if there's something you're going to learn in the near future about Obama is that he cares not how he rises to power, only that he does...

    OK. So the popular vote is in Hillary's favor. Momentum showed towards the end a change in democrat sentiment. Yet Obama technically had more pledged superdelegates...in June that is.

    Yet in August, the time the superdelegates actually make their pledge official one way or the other (yes folks they can change their minds), the superdelegates are in a position of having to weigh all factors in deciding who will be our best representative for not only a win this Fall, which goes without saying (and yet apparently needs to be said since it has escaped many minds) but equally as important, they need to decide who has the moxy, the grit, the integrity and experience to lead our country in the next four years...years that will go down as some of the most crucial years in american history...

    These aren't decisions they will make capriciously or "from the heart". They are mature and wise people; otherwise they wouldn't have been chosen to represent the good of the democratic people. They will carefully mull over each candidate's background, campaign promises, record of delivery on said promises. They will consider electability. They will consider that the trend towards the end of the primaries was unsettling. And they must consider that time has not affected those people who patently do not support Obama under any conditions.

    They they must consider who will be the most unifying candidate. Because in this election, no matter what the rigged polls are telling us via GOP BigMedia outlets right now, every single vote will matter. Particularly when the GOP springs "October Surprise" and scares droves of middlegrounders back to the war veteran McCain over Obama from the newly announced threat of immenent escalation overseas.

    They not only must look backwards at Obama's original momentum, but also forwards to where he lost that momentum. They must also get out a crystal ball and look into his future before November and just after the convention. They must be honest about his past, his viability and experience vs the no-prisoners GOP campaign machine that will systematically expose every single nuance of Obama's character to the gaping public view...even if they should wish right now so much with their hearts that this isn't going to happen.

    They must think like statesmen, like strategists...finally, like winners that I know they want us and the country to be this Fall. I know they are much too smart to fall into the GOP/Obama trap.

    And that is a process that will take place in their hearts and minds until August. Until then, accept and know that the democratic party DOES NOT have an official candidate.

    It has two potential candidates. Though the GOP wants us to believe otherwise.
     
  2. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Though I would agree with much that you said I take exception to your final point that the GOP wants us to believe otherwise.

    It is not the GOP who did this. It is YOUR OWN party. They were calling for Hillary to bow out for months.

    The LIBERAL media has been calling for Hillary to bow out for months.

    Obama himself sent surrogates to tell Hillary to bow out.

    Bill Richardson who owes everything he is politically To the Clintons, told Hillary to bow out.

    It was never the GOP or the right wing talk show hosts. IN FACT if it was not for Rush’s Operation Chaos Hillary would not have done as well as she had in Texas, Ohio, North Carolina or Indiana.

    Hillary and Bill both have said on numerous occasions that Fox news was more fair to them than any of the other news stations.

    You have this hatred for Conservatism and republicans, that is ok by me. You can not possibly loathe them any more than I loathe liberals.

    But at least get your facts straight on who to blame for Hillary’s political state.

    It was her own political party that turned against her, her own voting party and her own news stations.

    I hope she can make a comeback at the convention but it is just absolutely asinine to blame the GOP or republicans in general for what the backward democrat party has done.
     
  3. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    How many times must it be repeated

    THE POPULAR VOTE MEANS NOTHING?

    MI did did not even have Obama and others on the Ballot
    Not All States Vote, if you only count votes you ignore all those states, like mine where we don't cast a ballot.

    Sad sad people who cant learn when they lost and move on, and cry about it after the fact.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I think her point is this.

    It is NOT officially OVER

    It will NOT be over until the supers cast their votes AT the convention.

    ONLY then will it be OFFICALLY over.

    McCain is also the presumptive nominee and there are no others in the race. Until the GOP officially votes him in and accepts him he isn’t the official candidate either.

    Only in Obama's case there are supers who have to officially vote because with out the supers he is nothing. He never officially got the votes needed to become the nominee. If the supers do not vote for him as they have promised, he can not possibly become the nominee. He can not make it without them, and they are not commited to anyone until their vote is cast at the convention in August.

    There are no supers in the GOP party to have a chance to CHANGE their minds if Obama does something that is ANY MORE DISGUSTING than he ALREADY has.



    Oh, PS

    Obama, Richardson and Edwards were the ONLY ones not on the ballot in Michigan. But at the end of the day, Obama was able to claim EVERY “uncommitted” vote, plus reach across the table and snag 4 of Hillary’s delegates.

    Obama the slime bucket of all time was given a better deal for Michigan than if he had actually been on the ballot. He got EVERY SINGLE VOTE for 3 people plus was able to STEAL 4 of Hillary’s delegates. I can not understand for my life why you would complain about that. Your guy made out like bandit over that state!
     
  5. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    so he is slime becuse the rules worked in his favor I see..

    But had they ruled in Clinons favor you would be fine no doubt
     
  6. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    HE was slime before he ever announced his presidency.

    It was right for them to give him Edwards and Richardson’s votes, both endorsed him and would have thrown them his way anyways. But I think it was an extra cheesy act on his part to steal 4 of Hillary's delegates.

    Anyway, I think the point of this thread is to point out it is not officially over YET. And there is still hope that Obama will run out of the kool-aid you all have been drinking and people will wake up like Aurora did. Or that the super delegates will develop 2 little round things below their belt and do what is right for the party.

    It probably wont happen but it can be hoped for between now and the convention. After the convention everyone will agree it’s over, and Hillary’s only chance would be either Obama dies or a 3d party candidacy.
     
  7. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Thinking about your post and the blaming of the GOP, I still think it is crap and I stand by all the things I said in my first post on this topic.


    BUT


    I should add, I think that the Republicans in general are glad they are going to go against Obama rather than Hillary. I think they feel he will be easier to beat.

    I think the 527 private groups are also glad that it is Obama they are going against instead of Hillary.

    If they wanted Hillary over Obama they would already be doing their ads on national TV exposing Obama to the general public for what he is. They want to wait until after the convention to spring the ads so that the stuper delegates can not back out on supporting him.
     
  8. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    Was that how the rules where set up going in that all knew and agreed to? Did Obama ask them to change those rules so he got them and took them from Clinton? If not , quit crying and blaming Obama for the rules, he did nto make them, he just won.

    I bet you blame Obama for the moon rising and Cancer as well.

    And no one I know thinks its over, but we all know that the odds of it being anyone other then McCain and Obama at are about 1 in a million.

    One day you will wake up and accept Obama is the man who will run against Mccain...Not Clinton vs Ron Paul .
     
  9. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait for these hack jobs adds. I bet they do more the drive people away from McCain and the Republicans then Help. I can just see the Racist adds, or ones making dumb ass Secret Muslim claims, or implying he will Jail all white people or some dumb crap. McCain himself will be Discusted by them , and speak out against the, but the damage to him will be done as underbelly of the Republican party kills its self.
     
  10. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait for the ads too. Though I do not think they will call him a muslim, they will just show his own statements back to back.

    I never heard anything contriversial in my church
    Did I hear contraversial things in the church? Yes!

    Iran is a tiny country that can not hurt us!
    I have always said Iran is a grave danger to us!
     
  11. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I am not crying about anything. Why is it that you assume people are crying for pointing out a fact?

    Did Obama demand the extra 4 delegates that belonged to Clinton? I dont think so, at least I never heard a report like that. Could he have said My getting Edwards and Richardsons along with my own is fair, do not take hers away? Sure he could have, but that would have made him human and fair :D

    Obama is not God or the Messiah so of course he has no control over the moon rising. Its just his zombies who might think he has the power.
     
  12. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    Sound like you are crying over 4 lousy delegates, which were part of the Michigan compromise worked out and agreed upon by both Obama and Clinton supporters in the state. Considering Obama won the pledged delegate count by well over 100, what's the whining all about?
     
  13. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I will say the same thing to you as I did to pocket full of shells.

    Why is stating a fact considered whining or crying?


    I only stated a fact, he did take her delegates. His own, Richardson’s, and Edwards were not enough he needed 4 of hers.

    That is a fact. It doesn’t mean I am crying or whining it means I am stating a fact.
     
  14. Sihouette

    Sihouette Active Member

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    Actually, one ad I know they will run is simply the factual account of how he abused fellow progressive delegates in his bid for Senate in Chicago.

    They don't need to make anything up. He did it. He is guilty of it. The records are there and there's no way he can escape.

    But this thread is about laying to rest the myth that Obama is the factual democratic nominee.

    He isn't. That point needs to be made perfectly clear because people keep getting it wrong.

    And four superdelegates here or there don't matter now. What matters now is that superdelegates carefully consider the facts that are surfacing about the Obama vs the big surge for Hillary towards the end of the state-vote part of the primaries.

    I don't think it's productive to insult the superdelegates. I myself was swept up on the Obama wave initially. But after the minister thing and the transparent promotion of Obama over Hillary with BigMedia/GOP I became instantly aware of my mistake. It just takes some people longer to wrestle with their emotions surrounding having made the wrong choice. I tend to not get my emotions tied up in choices and forgive myself more easily than some I suppose. I have every bit of faith that superdelegates will grasp the import and reality of selecting the right candidate vs the one who seemed right at first.
     
  15. Sihouette

    Sihouette Active Member

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    So some people are claiming that Hillary Clinton's speech urging people to get behind and support Barack Obama was a clear indication that she ended her campaign. In spite of the fact that 50% of the time she spent goading women activist to "lay down and accept that we cracked the glass ceiling".

    *I'm giggling here*

    How often have you known fierce and determined women to lay down and accept BigMedia sexism, unfair treatment and having a win stolen from them by dirty politics?

    *rolling on the floor laughing*

    Her speech had three purposes that I can glean.

    1: To encourage people to back Obama so that the GOP/BigMedia machine would begin prematurely (before they will for a fact do so in September) to shred Obama's image for all to see. Clinton knows the skeletons in his closet and even though she did well to keep her lips tight about them, the GOP/BigMedia most certainly will not.

    2. To announce that she formally WAS NOT ending her campaign, but holding onto it clear to the convention as she promised 18 million supporters she would do. At least one of the dem candidates feels keeping their promises is important.

    3. To spur her supporters via outrage to keep fighting for what is fair, just and right: to denounce the patent acceptance of sexism in the media (visit the Moderat Voice http://themoderatevoice.com/politic...oters-still-wont-support-obama/#disqus_thread today to see one of the most blatanly sexist and elder-denigrating articles I've seen in quite a time.)

    The whole point of that speech , to which the media instantly knew but purposefully obfuscated and misinterpreted for us as "Clinton concedes and supports Obama" was for Hillary Clinton to hold her lead and momentum and pick up more as the GOP/BigMedia disembowelment of Obama began. They picked up on the real thrust of her trick of course and it's been downright hilarious watching them waffle between the kid-glove Obama treatment and attempting to take pot shots at him simultaneously. They don't have the balls to go after Obama's jugular. And I'm using that as a litmus test that tells me just how much of a viable threat they consider Clinton to be.

    Thank you BigMedia/GOP for letting us know, through your continuing kid-glove treatment of Obama that Clinton still garners great power in her supporters. You will not shame people from supporting her by inferring that her supporters are only old emotional and bigoted white women.. You have only served to galvanize MORE people in support of her by your little tricks.

    We are onto you. It's too late. Everything you say and do now will be taken with a grain of salt. The only thing left for you to do is to get honest. And we won't look for that to happen anytime soon. And you'd better get honest because 18 million viewers will suddenly lose interest in your tripe the second the elections are over. And unlike our younger, male, sober-headed non-racist counterparts, we have memories like a bear-trap. Say goodbye to your sponsors that cater to old white emotional women.

    Remember folks. If you voted for or support Hillary Clinton, you are white, over 40, female, irrationally emotional and a bigot. There are no other types of Clinton supporters. Feel good about that assessment?

    Checkmate.

    :)
     
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