Let's get clear about ...

[GenSeneca]

I know that's a shame... a shame that John McCain knowing how wrong it is is now a full Bush believer that torture isn't really torture as long as we're the ones doing it!

John McCain is not only the universes biggest Flip Flopper but I seriously don't think he's really screwed together all that tight. I mean you have to be missing a couple nuts & bolts to have been through torture and then approve of torture. Seriously!

Whats a shame is that you really think making unsupported accusations passes as an intelligent argument. Give me a quote from McCain where he said it wasn't torture when we did it, or that he supported torture at all.

Stop with the flip-flop nonsense, Obama's record is no better - just much, much shorter.

 

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

Are you saying that you support collecting information through the torturing of POW's?

You can hate McCain all you like but the man went through hell and lived to tell about it... and people like you call it "collaboration" when the person being tortured just can't take any more abuse.

Lets get clear about this right up front for those of you who have no clue or no heart to what is being said...

EVERYONE!!!!!!! Everyone breaks under torture... there are NO JAMES BONDS!! There are no Supermen who can withstand sustained torture...

Even saying anything along the lines of "collaboration" is completely and UTTER Retarded... I won't stand for slander of people put under those kinda conditions.

DO not fill this web-page with that kinda garbage... Its complete hear-say from people who have NEVER EVER known anything close to what its like...

Torture is wrong no matter how you look at it. To accept giving that kinda of treatment to our enemies immeditally reduces America to no better then the terrorists we seek to put judgement on.

The Geneva Convention happened for a reason... Once we turn our back on it we can no longer hope for safety for our people or our troops.

 

[Federal Farmer]

I'm not gonna lie... I have no clue even at this point. I can see giant faults in each canadiate but I almost lean more with GenSenca's view points on it because the lesser of two evils seems to be the incompetent one.

I just don't understand why I am being forced two vote on ethier
Idiot A or Idiot B....
Not voting in some sence seems almost wrong now that I have come to learn so much about the process within the last couple of years.

Honestly for now I am the typical American voter.. Stuck on the fence because nethier is saying what I want to hear.

OK, well look at it from a Tactical perspective. Do you want a somewhat wishy-washy, but highly experienced, SNCO leading your patrol into hostile territory, or do you want a green Butterbar straight out of OCS with exactly 1 week of AD time under his belt leading you into hostile territory?

It's real simple now, isn't it? As a Veteran, I know you've had "not so hot" SNCO's and young idiot "O's" to contend with, which one would you rather trust your life, and the lives of your Squad to?

 

[Pandora]

I'm not gonna lie... I have no clue even at this point. I can see giant faults in each canadiate but I almost lean more with GenSenca's view points on it because the lesser of two evils seems to be the incompetent one.

I just don't understand why I am being forced two vote on ethier
Idiot A or Idiot B....
Not voting in some sence seems almost wrong now that I have come to learn so much about the process within the last couple of years.

Honestly for now I am the typical American voter.. Stuck on the fence because nethier is saying what I want to hear.

If you really do not like McCain or Obama, what about voting 3d party. Most people think that is a bad idea but I think if everyone who flat couldnt stand either did that it would at least send a message to give us more than dog crap and dog puke to vote for next time.

Depending on what state you are in, it could matter or not. I am in Oregon, my state will go for Obama so it really doesn't matter what I do. If I liked a 3d party person enough it wouldn't hurt to vote for them. Are you in a swing state?

 

[Federal Farmer]

Lets get clear about this right up front for those of you who have no clue or no heart to what is being said...

EVERYONE!!!!!!! Everyone breaks under torture... there are NO JAMES BONDS!! There are no Supermen who can withstand sustained torture...

Even saying anything along the lines of "collaboration" is completely and UTTER Retarded... I won't stand for slander of people put under those kinda conditions.

DO not fill this web-page with that kinda garbage... Its complete hear-say from people who have NEVER EVER known anything close to what its like...

HOOOAH

Torture is wrong no matter how you look at it. To accept giving that kinda of treatment to our enemies immeditally reduces America to no better then the terrorists we seek to put judgement on.

The Geneva Convention happened for a reason... Once we turn our back on it we can no longer hope for safety for our people or our troops.

One thing if I may, just as a point of clarity, under GCIII, they're not considered POW's.

Also, we waterboarded Tangos exactly 3 times, and only because it was Operationally imperative. That's not to say that I "approve" of the practice as a rule, but there are times when the lives of your men are in jeopardy and you HAVE to make a tough decision, you just have to make up your mind that you're going to pay for it later. To me, FWIW, it's not unlike the whole "shooting at Paratroopers while they're in the air" rule. Hey, it sucks, and I know that it sucks, but there's no way I'm waiting for them to hit the ground just so we can "play fair". If I'd have ever been faced with that situation, I'd have taken as many of them out as I could while they were still in the air, and IF I lived through it, I'd have stood up straight and tall in front of my Courts Martial and taken whatever they wanted to throw at me with a smile on my face.

 

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

OK, well look at it from a Tactical perspective. Do you want a somewhat wishy-washy, but highly experienced, SNCO leading your patrol into hostile territory, or do you want a green Butterbar straight out of OCS with exactly 1 week of AD time under his belt leading you into hostile territory?

It's real simple now, isn't it? As a Veteran, I know you've had "not so hot" SNCO's and young idiot "O's" to contend with, which one would you rather trust your life, and the lives of your Squad to?

As for NOO GOD NO Obamanation's quote.. I live in Texas... so.. you know.. Red state.. But I do like the way you point it out.

As far as the quote above... yes your right.. would put my trust in a salty dog NCO any day above a butterbar... however.. I'm not one to revenge vote just to keep the other guy from winning.

However.. my mind keeps coming back on to the question that is never answered... and god I can only hope I'm not alone in this thinking.. are we past fixing all of this? Everything that I have inherited from the fathers past has been courrpted and made vile. Honesty and intergrity seems completely interchangeable with deniablity and accussations. So much so that it takes a strong mind to figure out the differences anymore.
Its like the forest no longer contains trees.
Idk... yeah .. republican FTW .. yaa..

 

[Federal Farmer]

As for NOO GOD NO Obamanation's quote.. I live in Texas... so.. you know.. Red state.. But I do like the way you point it out.

As far as the quote above... yes your right.. would put my trust in a salty dog NCO any day above a butterbar... however.. I'm not one to revenge vote just to keep the other guy from winning.

I don't consider it "revenge" voting, for me it's yet another example of holding my nose and voting for the most experienced of the bad choices.

However.. my mind keeps coming back on to the question that is never answered... and god I can only hope I'm not alone in this thinking.. are we past fixing all of this? Everything that I have inherited from the fathers past has been courrpted and made vile. Honesty and intergrity seems completely interchangeable with deniablity and accussations. So much so that it takes a strong mind to figure out the differences anymore.
Its like the forest no longer contains trees.
Idk... yeah .. republican FTW .. yaa..

No, I don't think we're past it, but at this point, I fear that really fixing it would require "the blood of tyrants and patriots". The mess we're in is the culmination of over 150 years of usurpations of our Rights and Liberties by the Hamiltonians in our midst, and it won't be easy, cheap, or "kindly" to repair the damage.

 

[top gun]

Whats a shame is that you really think making unsupported accusations passes as an intelligent argument. Give me a quote from McCain where he said it wasn't torture when we did it, or that he supported torture at all.

Stop with the flip-flop nonsense, Obama's record is no better - just much, much shorter.

Let's get clear about the abysmal voting record of John McSame on troop issues and the rating the troops actually give him. John McSame a D... Senator Barack Obama a B-. It's all here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8FtnQ6oNvE


Sure John McSame tries to be a slippery slimy guy on this question... he's an old school politician. He double talks the issue to death and just hopes nobody notices.

He says he's against Waterboarding because it's torture outside of the rules set up in the Geneva Convention & the Army Field Manual. Then he goes someplace else and says he thinks that the CIA should be allowed to operate outside these very same rules.

At the end of the day I think we can all agree that it's not how much "double talk" you promote it's your own vote on the issue itself.

John McSame voted against outlawing Waterboarding which my all definitions is in fact torture... you just can't get away from that. He then applauded his new best friend George Bush for vetoing the Bill that was passed baning Waterboarding. #3 in this clip.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-tKiFw9x6E