McCain plagiarized cross in the sand story

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Popeye

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Over the last couple days there has been a lot of evidence accumulating that McCain stole his cross in the sand story from Alexander Solzhenitsyn's book..."The Gulag Archipelago." Lets take a look at some of it:

For starters, as we all know there's precedent for McCain distorting his history as a POW and for plagiarizing material.

1. During a recent visit to Pittsburgh, he retold a POW story involving what he said was his favorite football team, but changed the Packers in favor of the hometown favorite Steelers.
2. In a recent speech on Georgia, McCain plagiarized at least three passages from Wikipedia's history of the country.

As for the story itself, the details of McCain's version of Solzhenitsyn's "Cross in the Dirt" story don't add up. Specifically:

1. McCain's story is nearly identical to the story told by Alexandr Solzhenitsyn.
2. In McCain's version of the story, a guard who had befriended him later drew the cross in the ground.
3. According to McCain's 1973 retelling of his experience, there was only one guard who he considered human, and that guard befriended him in 1969.
4. This means that McCain's Christmas story would have taken place in 1969.
5. Between when he met that guard and Christmas of 1969, McCain changed prisons. Unless the guard followed him to the new prison, McCain's story is not true.

There is also other evidence raising doubts about McCain's story:

1. In McCain's early stories about his POW years, he made no mention of the story.
2. At a 1974 prayer breakfast arranged by Ronald Reagan, McCain did not tell the Solzhenitsyn story. He told a completely different one about a prisoner scratching a prayer into a wall.
3.There is no evidence McCain ever told this story before 1999.
4.McCain is a huge fan of Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

McCain thinks nothing of lifting other people's material and claiming it as his own. He has been caught in several lies...how many more are out there?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/15300/5629/128/569386

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299
 
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Libsmasher said:
HAR HAR HAR! Souce? dailykos :) Credibility? Zero. :D Another slur du jour bites the dust.
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Andrew Sullivan has now picked up on cross in the sandgate otherwise known as McCain lying in church.

And it would not be salient if McCain hadn't deployed the anecdote in his own words - with a misleading image - in a campaign ad, and used it again in front of an evangelical audience Saturday night. And it would not be salient if religious fanatics had not a strangle-hold on the Republican party, seeking doctrinal assurances and echoes of their own type of faith in political candidates.

Here are the perfectly legitimate questions reporters should now, in my opinion, ask McCain:

why did you not mention this transcendent story in 1973? Why, in discussing three Christmases in captivity in Vietnam, was this story - far more powerful than any of the other anecdotes - omitted? How was it possible for the gun guard of May 1969 to be present at Christmas that year when McCain had been transferred to another camp? Is it possible that McCain's memory has faded with time and that he has simply fused his own memories with other stories - as Clinton did with Bosnia sniper fire and as Kerry did in remembering another Christmas he could not have actually witnessed where he said he did?

And why are we not allowed to ask these questions, when they relate to one of the most important questions anyone can ask about a president: the question of integrity? If McCain has fabricated a religious epiphany for political purposes, it is about as deep a betrayal of core integrity as one can imagine, and the latest example of how pernicious the religious domination of political life in America has become.
Click to expand...
 
Popeye said:
Over the last couple days there has been a lot of evidence accumulating that McCain stole his cross in the sand story from Alexander Solzhenitsyn's book..."The Gulag Archipelago." Lets take a look at some of it:

For starters, as we all know there's precedent for McCain distorting his history as a POW and for plagiarizing material.

1. During a recent visit to Pittsburgh, he retold a POW story involving what he said was his favorite football team, but changed the Packers in favor of the hometown favorite Steelers.
2. In a recent speech on Georgia, McCain plagiarized at least three passages from Wikipedia's history of the country.

As for the story itself, the details of McCain's version of Solzhenitsyn's "Cross in the Dirt" story don't add up. Specifically:

1. McCain's story is nearly identical to the story told by Alexandr Solzhenitsyn.
2. In McCain's version of the story, a guard who had befriended him later drew the cross in the ground.
3. According to McCain's 1973 retelling of his experience, there was only one guard who he considered human, and that guard befriended him in 1969.
4. This means that McCain's Christmas story would have taken place in 1969.
5. Between when he met that guard and Christmas of 1969, McCain changed prisons. Unless the guard followed him to the new prison, McCain's story is not true.

There is also other evidence raising doubts about McCain's story:

1. In McCain's early stories about his POW years, he made no mention of the story.
2. At a 1974 prayer breakfast arranged by Ronald Reagan, McCain did not tell the Solzhenitsyn story. He told a completely different one about a prisoner scratching a prayer into a wall.
3.There is no evidence McCain ever told this story before 1999.
4.McCain is a huge fan of Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

McCain thinks nothing of lifting other people's material and claiming it as his own. He has been caught in several lies...how many more are out there?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/15300/5629/128/569386

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299
Click to expand...

Um I think you might look up the definition of the word plagiarize. The other sources I have seen repeat that the story is stolen have also said that it is the "exact same story" as solzhenitsyn's. Yet the differences seem to be greater than the similarities.

In solzhenitsyn's story it is a fellow prisoner who draws the cross and the lesson learned is that one does not fight against insurmountable evil alone but there is a greater force - Christianity.

In McCain's it is a soldier who draws a cross and the lesson learned is that two people on opposing sides can transcend their differences with a shared faith.

I wonder how many people have ever drawn a cross in the sand. Recently President Clinton made a cross in the sand. Is it impossible to believe that solzhenitsyn's character and president Clinton and the Viet Nam soldier and others could have have all drawn crosses in the sand? For all we know the solder and P. Clinton both made their crosses because they both read solzhenitsyn.
 
pocketfullofshells said:
as always a mind blowing retort of great skill and showing clearly that the post was not correct with overwhelming evidence...thank you for your wisdom we all learned a lot from you on this day.
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You want overwhelming evidence in a rebuttal of something that is PURE FICTION from a defamation site?? :D

OK, lemme try. :) You have a well-known record as a child molester.

Now rebut that with "overwhelming evidence". :p
 
Libsmasher said:
You want overwhelming evidence in a rebuttal of something that is PURE FICTION from a defamation site?? :D

OK, lemme try. :) You have a well-known record as a child molester.

Now rebut that with "overwhelming evidence". :p
Click to expand...

DR Who did it, made points that where valid and worth looking at...you mad ass of yourself and showed again you have nothing to add to anything of value on any subject. Well Played..


And DR Who, good post ...teach Lib how to post like that some time.
 
Popeye said:
Over the last couple days there has been a lot of evidence accumulating that McCain stole his cross in the sand story from Alexander Solzhenitsyn's book..."The Gulag Archipelago." Lets take a look at some of it:

For starters, as we all know there's precedent for McCain distorting his history as a POW and for plagiarizing material.

1. During a recent visit to Pittsburgh, he retold a POW story involving what he said was his favorite football team, but changed the Packers in favor of the hometown favorite Steelers.
2. In a recent speech on Georgia, McCain plagiarized at least three passages from Wikipedia's history of the country.

As for the story itself, the details of McCain's version of Solzhenitsyn's "Cross in the Dirt" story don't add up. Specifically:

1. McCain's story is nearly identical to the story told by Alexandr Solzhenitsyn.
2. In McCain's version of the story, a guard who had befriended him later drew the cross in the ground.
3. According to McCain's 1973 retelling of his experience, there was only one guard who he considered human, and that guard befriended him in 1969.
4. This means that McCain's Christmas story would have taken place in 1969.
5. Between when he met that guard and Christmas of 1969, McCain changed prisons. Unless the guard followed him to the new prison, McCain's story is not true.

There is also other evidence raising doubts about McCain's story:

1. In McCain's early stories about his POW years, he made no mention of the story.
2. At a 1974 prayer breakfast arranged by Ronald Reagan, McCain did not tell the Solzhenitsyn story. He told a completely different one about a prisoner scratching a prayer into a wall.
3.There is no evidence McCain ever told this story before 1999.
4.McCain is a huge fan of Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

McCain thinks nothing of lifting other people's material and claiming it as his own. He has been caught in several lies...how many more are out there?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/15300/5629/128/569386

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/17/122230/161/239/569299
Click to expand...

I heard this on the radio yesterday as well.

There's also the complaint that McSame wasn't in the building in a room without access to the debate questions being asked Senator Obama. McSame walked into the building just before going on stage. Very easily could have been listening to or been having someone phone him the questions being asked. It was being both televized and on the local radio I understand.
 
top gun said:
I heard this on the radio yesterday as well.

There's also the complaint that McSame wasn't in the building in a room without access to the debate questions being asked Senator Obama. McSame walked into the building just before going on stage. Very easily could have been listening to or been having someone phone him the questions being asked. It was being both televized and on the local radio I understand.
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warren said that he asked and could only take them at his word but could confirm, but that he trusted him to have not.
 
pocketfullofshells said:
warren said that he asked and could only take them at his word but could confirm, but that he trusted him to have not.
Click to expand...

I heard that too but you'd hope they'd have had better rules set up. I mean either side being outside of the controlled area while the questions were being asked was down right stupid.

Think there was a lesson learned here either way.
 
top gun said:
I heard that too but you'd hope they'd have had better rules set up. I mean either side being outside of the controlled area while the questions were being asked was down right stupid.

Think there was a lesson learned here either way.
Click to expand...

that preachers should stay out of politics if they dont know what they are doing?
 
top gun said:
I heard this on the radio yesterday as well.

There's also the complaint that McSame wasn't in the building in a room without access to the debate questions being asked Senator Obama. McSame walked into the building just before going on stage. Very easily could have been listening to or been having someone phone him the questions being asked. It was being both televized and on the local radio I understand.
Click to expand...

McCain was in the building late, but well before he went on stage. Added to that, he was flanked by his staff as well as secret service agents who would have confirmed that McCain heard the questions if he actually did, the only problem is that he did not.
 
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BigRob said:
McCain was in the building late, but well before he went on stage. Added to that, he was flanked by his staff as well as secret service agents who would have confirmed that McCain heard the questions if he actually did, the only problem is that he did not.
Click to expand...

1 His staff would lie if hey did I am sure, if they knew McCain already said he did not ...or just thinking that they should.

2. Secret Service would be in major breach of its duty and put McCains life at risk if they talked. They would not say a word....
 

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