Obama Administration: 50-100 GITMO Detainees cannot be tried or released

It would appear to me as an American problem:
being left/right/red/blue/democrat/republican/female/male has nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this problem! Many of these 'detainees' were rounded up in their very own country and turned in for the $$$$ bounty, is it possible that the factions that nabbed these men had their own agenda's...OH YA!!!

None of those people have been in GTMO for a long time now.

So here we are with numerous 'detainees' that have been absent from their homes/families/jobs but America has been holding them/labeled them as terrorists...who's going to allow them back into their homelands? Why weren't they given their due process according to American Laws? Ok, that's been chewed over many a time!

We have a Federal Prison right here in Kansas - Leavenworth and the local officials are practically boycotting the plan to relocate some of those men here...Montana has a prison facility that was built and was 'supposed to provide housing for that states overcrowding' and its practically empty {brand spanking new and hardly used}.

If you bring them into the US then they are going to get US protection and be given trials in federal courts. I have already posted on the massive problems with that in the manner evidence can be presented under American law.

We have allowed our officials to create this 'F - UP' and we can't expect another country to step up to the plate and open their doors for our own humanitarian embarrassment! 7 years in confinement...didn't happen on the current presidency...but you logical minds understand that concept...you just don't want to face the reality of it! LOL

I do not give a damn who started what, I want to know what the solution is. Your solution of "oh it was a different President" does not solve the problem of "what do we do now."
 
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No, but Bush is the one who invaded Iraq, then put "terrorists" who can neither be tried nor released in Gitmo in the first place.

Just one of many conundrums and Gordian knot sorts of problems left over from the past administration.

Damn those British for ever giving Iraq independence! If they never had then there would never have been an invasion. Clearly it is their fault.

If your solution to the current problem is to talk about Bush, then God help your party in 2012.
 
Damn those British for ever giving Iraq independence! If they never had then there would never have been an invasion. Clearly it is their fault.

If your solution to the current problem is to talk about Bush, then God help your party in 2012.

The Gitmo problem is a direct result of Bush Administration policies, plain and simple.

And, my party has yet to win an election. It seems to still be the Democrats, admitted statists, vs. the Republicans, de facto statists, with Libertarians still stuck in the catch 22:

No one wants to vote Libertarian, since they can't win because no one will vote for them.

Still, unless Obama can clean up the Bush mess without creating a mess of his own, then we just might have a chance.

And, given Obama's expansion of Bush's policy of spending money we don't have, the odds of not creating another mess seem pretty long just now.

So, there is cause for optimism yet.
 
The Gitmo problem is a direct result of Bush Administration policies, plain and simple.

How about the legal precedence that it was based on dating all the way back to Lincoln, FDR, and yes even Clinton? I suppose establishing the legal basis for what was done was all Bush really just running those admins too?

And, my party has yet to win an election. It seems to still be the Democrats, admitted statists, vs. the Republicans, de facto statists, with Libertarians still stuck in the catch 22:

No one wants to vote Libertarian, since they can't win because no one will vote for them.

Still, unless Obama can clean up the Bush mess without creating a mess of his own, then we just might have a chance.

And, given Obama's expansion of Bush's policy of spending money we don't have, the odds of not creating another mess seem pretty long just now.

So, there is cause for optimism yet.

To carry out your response to the "what are we going to do now question" about GTMO, this is what the debate in the Libertarian party would look like.

The Party: Well we lost the election, what should we do not to try to win next time?
Strategist: We lost the election.
The Party: Yes, we understand that, but what should we do next?
Strategist: Well, the other person got more votes.


Obviously the election has been lost, the question however remains unanswered. What do we do now, and apparently how do we blame that on Bush.
 
How about the legal precedence that it was based on dating all the way back to Lincoln, FDR, and yes even Clinton? I suppose establishing the legal basis for what was done was all Bush really just running those admins too?

Rounding people up, purchasing them from enemies, then dubbing them with a new name that means we can do what we want with them, then holding them with no charges for years, sure there must be a big precedent for that, sure.


To carry out your response to the "what are we going to do now question" about GTMO, this is what the debate in the Libertarian party would look like.

The Party: Well we lost the election, what should we do not to try to win next time?
Strategist: We lost the election.
The Party: Yes, we understand that, but what should we do next?
Strategist: Well, the other person got more votes.


Obviously the election has been lost, the question however remains unanswered. What do we do now, and apparently how do we blame that on Bush.


No, the answer is simple:

When the two major parties screw up badly enough, then people will begin to vote for us, even if they think we can't win because no one will vote for us. It's a perfect strategy.
 
Rounding people up, purchasing them from enemies, then dubbing them with a new name that means we can do what we want with them, then holding them with no charges for years, sure there must be a big precedent for that, sure.

Those who ended up wrongfully in detention have already been released for the most part. As for holding without charge, yes, there is a lot of legal precedence on that one justifying what was done.

Now if these people were US citizens it would be different, but all of the actions taken by the President were in line with Congressional authorization as well as within the bounds of the Constitution.

No, the answer is simple:

When the two major parties screw up badly enough, then people will begin to vote for us, even if they think we can't win because no one will vote for us. It's a perfect strategy.

I was more talking about your line of "blame bush" and how that is not a solution to the problems we currently face. If I say "I need to get to the store" and you tell me my car was stolen it does not negate the fact that I need to get the store and telling me my car was stolen has done nothing to help find a solution.
 
Those who ended up wrongfully in detention have already been released for the most part. As for holding without charge, yes, there is a lot of legal precedence on that one justifying what was done.

Now if these people were US citizens it would be different, but all of the actions taken by the President were in line with Congressional authorization as well as within the bounds of the Constitution.



I was more talking about your line of "blame bush" and how that is not a solution to the problems we currently face. If I say "I need to get to the store" and you tell me my car was stolen it does not negate the fact that I need to get the store and telling me my car was stolen has done nothing to help find a solution.

Good. Then, let's just let bygones be bygones, and try to solve the problems facing the nation now.

Bush is gone.

Gosh, it feels good to say that. I think I'll say it again.

Bush is gone!:)

Ahhh... that felt good.

Now, let's try not to blame the current pres on the mess left by the last one. I have every confidence that he will soon have a mess of his own we can legitimately blame on him, don't you?
 
Good. Then, let's just let bygones be bygones, and try to solve the problems facing the nation now.

Bush is gone.

Gosh, it feels good to say that. I think I'll say it again.

Bush is gone!:)

Ahhh... that felt good.

Now, let's try not to blame the current pres on the mess left by the last one. I have every confidence that he will soon have a mess of his own we can legitimately blame on him, don't you?

He is gone yes.

Did he leave a mess? Sure, every President leaves some problem for the next to deal with. That said, in my opinion, once Obama issued the Executive Order to close GITMO and end the military tribunals it becomes his problem to have a solution. Had he not done and that said "we are coming up with a plan" then so be it, blame Bush for the need to come up with a plan. But since the just closed the place, it has become his issue to handle, and so far he has not done to well with it in my view.

I have no doubt that he will have a whole host of new problems to deal with as well, every President does. I just hope that when he acts on the future problems he has come up with a few solutions before just acting.
 
OH, MAN...Come on Rob, for the love of PETE...have you read the mass amounts of information that have been piling up for years about GITMO...if that answer is yes???

Then HTH can you make statements like: "they haven't been there that long, the ones that were wrongly imprisoned have been released!!!"

The following was a report that was on '60 Minutes' back in 2005; it's well worth reading even if it won't EVER CHANGE YOUR MIND. This was reported by the guy sent to translate for the prisoners...he was there!
***************************************************
Torture, Cover-Up At Gitmo?
Former Translator Says Prisoner Interrogations Were Staged For VIPs

Page 1 of 3
May 1, 2005 | by Rebecca Leung

Guantanamo Bay Accusations
A former Guantanamo Bay translator tells 60 Minutes' Scott Pelley, in his first interview, secrets of the interrogation process alleged to be cruel and ineffective. | Share/Embed

(CBS) The story that Sgt. Erik Saar, a soldier who spent three months in the interrogation rooms at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, tells Correspondent Scott Pelley paints a picture of bizarre, even sadistic, treatment of detainees in the American prison camp.

Experts in intelligence tell 60 Minutes that if what Saar says is true, some soldiers at Guantanamo have undermined the war on terror, bungling the interrogation of important prisoners.

60 Minutes also reveals previously secret emails from FBI agents at Guantanamo that warn FBI headquarters that prisoners are being tortured.

"I think the harm we are doing there far outweighs the good, and I believe it's inconsistent with American values," says Saar. "In fact, I think it's fair to say that it’s the moral antithesis of what we want to stand for as a country."

Saar volunteered for Guantanamo Bay in 2002. He was a U.S. Army linguist, an expert in Arabic, with a top-secret security clearance. He was assigned to translate during interrogations. The prisoners, about 600 in all, were mostly from the battlefields of Afghanistan. And Saar couldn’t wait to get at them after what the administration said: the men were "among the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth."

With that in mind, Saar went to work, but he was surprised by what he found. How many prisoners did he think were the worst of the worst – real terrorists?

"At best, I would say there were a few dozen," says Saar. "A few dozen [out of 600]."

Who were the rest of the guys? "Some of them were conscripts who actually were forced to fight for the Taliban, so actually had taken up arms against us, but had little or no choice in the matter," says Saar. "Some of them were individuals who were picked up by the Northern Alliance, and we have no idea why they were there, and we didn't know exactly what their connections were to terrorism."

However they got there, Saar and the rest of Guantanamo’s intelligence personnel were told that the captives were not prisoners of war, and therefore, were not protected by the Geneva Convention.

"Your training in intelligence had told you what about the Geneva Conventions?" asks Pelley.

"That they were never to be violated," says Saar. "As a matter of fact, the training for interrogators themselves, their entire coursework falls under the umbrella of you never violate the Geneva Conventions."

"If the rules of the Geneva Convention did not apply, what rules did apply?" asks Pelley.

"I don't think anybody knew that," says Saar.

And so, Saar said, some U.S. military intelligence personnel used cruelty, and even bizarre sexual tactics against the prisoners. Saar has written a book, "Inside the Wire," about his experiences at Guantanamo. Penguin Press will release it on Tuesday.

He told 60 Minutes about one interrogation in particular, in which he translated for a female interrogator who was trying to break a high-priority prisoner — a Saudi who had been in flight school in the United States.

"As she stood in front of him, she slowly started to unbutton her Army blouse. She had on underneath the Army blouse a tight brown Army T-shirt, touched her breasts, and said, 'Don't you like these big American breasts?'" says Saar. "She wanted to create a barrier between this detainee and his faith, and if she could somehow sexually entice him, he would feel unclean in an Islamic way, he would not be able to pray and go before his God and gain that strength, so the next day, maybe he would be able to start cooperating, start talking to her."

But the prisoner wasn’t talking, so Saar said the interrogator increased the pressure.

"She started to unbutton her pants and reached and put her hands in her pants and then started to circle around the detainee. And when she had her hands in her pants, apparently she used something to put what appeared to be menstrual blood on her hand, but in fact was ink," says Saar.

"When she circled around the detainee, she pulled out her hand, which was red, and said, 'I'm actually menstruating right now, and I'm touching you. Does that please your God? Does that please Allah?' And then he kind of got pent up and shied away from her, and she then took the ink and wiped it on his face, and said, 'How do you like that?'"
continued on page 2-3
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/28/60minutes/main691602.shtml
***************************************
 
OH, MAN...Come on Rob, for the love of PETE...have you read the mass amounts of information that have been piling up for years about GITMO...if that answer is yes???

Then HTH can you make statements like: "they haven't been there that long, the ones that were wrongly imprisoned have been released!!!"

The following was a report that was on '60 Minutes' back in 2005; it's well worth reading even if it won't EVER CHANGE YOUR MIND. This was reported by the guy sent to translate for the prisoners...he was there!

Based on the official memos released by the Obama administration (which carry more validity than a 60 minutes story), there is nothing that we have done at GTMO that was not justifiable under the law at the time.

Further, in case you might have missed it, Bush did start releasing tons of people from GTMO back when he was President, and cleared out almost all of those that were sent there by some accident.
 
Based on the official memos released by the Obama administration (which carry more validity than a 60 minutes story), there is nothing that we have done at GTMO that was not justifiable under the law at the time.

Further, in case you might have missed it, Bush did start releasing tons of people from GTMO back when he was President, and cleared out almost all of those that were sent there by some accident.

Ton's...really...I posted about the most recent 5 that a Judge told G.W.B. that they had to release for failure to provide any substantial PROOF of terrorist activity...but TONS have been released???

The finite reasoning about "justifiable under the law at the time" is the reason that this has to be investigated to it's fullest...there seems to be veritable gradient shades of gray spread over what was accurately documented, what was the proper language/verbiage used for the reasoning/authority provided, and the truth of 'WHAT WAS REALLY' going on.

Standing before and against the wrongs of this activity is what America needs to do...clean our own house before we start lecturing other countries on what & how to handle their malcontents...IMO. This has given us a serious BLACK EYE and we need to rectify the wrongs that were done/how they managed to circumvent the manual on torture/who signed off on these poor judgmental decisions/and get the the bottom of this in order to assure that it will never happen again...IMO ;)
 
Werbung:
OH, MAN...Come on Rob, for the love of PETE...have you read the mass amounts of information that have been piling up for years about GITMO...if that answer is yes???

Then HTH can you make statements like: "they haven't been there that long, the ones that were wrongly imprisoned have been released!!!"

The following was a report that was on '60 Minutes' back in 2005; it's well worth reading even if it won't EVER CHANGE YOUR MIND. This was reported by the guy sent to translate for the prisoners...he was there!
***************************************************
Torture, Cover-Up At Gitmo?
Former Translator Says Prisoner Interrogations Were Staged For VIPs

Page 1 of 3
May 1, 2005 | by Rebecca Leung

Guantanamo Bay Accusations
A former Guantanamo Bay translator tells 60 Minutes' Scott Pelley, in his first interview, secrets of the interrogation process alleged to be cruel and ineffective. | Share/Embed

(CBS) The story that Sgt. Erik Saar, a soldier who spent three months in the interrogation rooms at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, tells Correspondent Scott Pelley paints a picture of bizarre, even sadistic, treatment of detainees in the American prison camp.

Experts in intelligence tell 60 Minutes that if what Saar says is true, some soldiers at Guantanamo have undermined the war on terror, bungling the interrogation of important prisoners.

60 Minutes also reveals previously secret emails from FBI agents at Guantanamo that warn FBI headquarters that prisoners are being tortured.

"I think the harm we are doing there far outweighs the good, and I believe it's inconsistent with American values," says Saar. "In fact, I think it's fair to say that it’s the moral antithesis of what we want to stand for as a country."

Saar volunteered for Guantanamo Bay in 2002. He was a U.S. Army linguist, an expert in Arabic, with a top-secret security clearance. He was assigned to translate during interrogations. The prisoners, about 600 in all, were mostly from the battlefields of Afghanistan. And Saar couldn’t wait to get at them after what the administration said: the men were "among the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth."

With that in mind, Saar went to work, but he was surprised by what he found. How many prisoners did he think were the worst of the worst – real terrorists?

"At best, I would say there were a few dozen," says Saar. "A few dozen [out of 600]."

Who were the rest of the guys? "Some of them were conscripts who actually were forced to fight for the Taliban, so actually had taken up arms against us, but had little or no choice in the matter," says Saar. "Some of them were individuals who were picked up by the Northern Alliance, and we have no idea why they were there, and we didn't know exactly what their connections were to terrorism."

However they got there, Saar and the rest of Guantanamo’s intelligence personnel were told that the captives were not prisoners of war, and therefore, were not protected by the Geneva Convention.

"Your training in intelligence had told you what about the Geneva Conventions?" asks Pelley.

"That they were never to be violated," says Saar. "As a matter of fact, the training for interrogators themselves, their entire coursework falls under the umbrella of you never violate the Geneva Conventions."

"If the rules of the Geneva Convention did not apply, what rules did apply?" asks Pelley.

"I don't think anybody knew that," says Saar.

And so, Saar said, some U.S. military intelligence personnel used cruelty, and even bizarre sexual tactics against the prisoners. Saar has written a book, "Inside the Wire," about his experiences at Guantanamo. Penguin Press will release it on Tuesday.

He told 60 Minutes about one interrogation in particular, in which he translated for a female interrogator who was trying to break a high-priority prisoner — a Saudi who had been in flight school in the United States.

"As she stood in front of him, she slowly started to unbutton her Army blouse. She had on underneath the Army blouse a tight brown Army T-shirt, touched her breasts, and said, 'Don't you like these big American breasts?'" says Saar. "She wanted to create a barrier between this detainee and his faith, and if she could somehow sexually entice him, he would feel unclean in an Islamic way, he would not be able to pray and go before his God and gain that strength, so the next day, maybe he would be able to start cooperating, start talking to her."

But the prisoner wasn’t talking, so Saar said the interrogator increased the pressure.

"She started to unbutton her pants and reached and put her hands in her pants and then started to circle around the detainee. And when she had her hands in her pants, apparently she used something to put what appeared to be menstrual blood on her hand, but in fact was ink," says Saar.

"When she circled around the detainee, she pulled out her hand, which was red, and said, 'I'm actually menstruating right now, and I'm touching you. Does that please your God? Does that please Allah?' And then he kind of got pent up and shied away from her, and she then took the ink and wiped it on his face, and said, 'How do you like that?'"
continued on page 2-3
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/28/60minutes/main691602.shtml
***************************************

I do not really know if any of the so called wrongly accused are still there or have been held for a long time.

But what I do know is that in your long rebuttal to Rob you fail to provide any statement whatsoever that any of the so called wrongly accused are still there or being held there for a long time.
 
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