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Obama and Partial birth abortion/born alive act

Discussion in 'Elections & Political Parties' started by Pandora, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Obama says in his interview today on Fox news that he only voted against the ban on partial birth abortion because it did not have a provision for “the health of the mother”

    He went on to say that he believed there was a real way to put a legal limit on late term abortion as long as they had a clause for the health of the mother.

    But....

    Last year when he was asked why he voted against the “born alive act” (this act would force doctors to give medial aide to any child who survived a partial birth abortion). His reasoning to vote against it was he thought it was conflict with Row vs. wade.

    But….

    The central holding of Roe v. Wade was that abortions are permissible for any reason a woman chooses, up until the "point at which the fetus becomes ‘viable,’ that is, potentially able to live outside the mother's womb,


    So how could signing a born alive act interfere with this ruling?



    I wish Chris Wallace would have asked him about his stand on partial birth abortion, and the born alive act.

    I know what he means when he says “the health of the mother’. He doesn’t mean physical health, he means mental heath. If she would mentally be unhappy if the child lived, was adopted out or what ever. That is not a good enough reason to let a baby die.

    His position on this issue is exactly like Barbara Boxer, Who while in a debate on the senate floor said it is not a baby till the mother picks it up and claims it as her own.

    If he wanted to claim it was for the physical health of the woman, it would be ridiculous. The only way you can legally have a partial birth abortion is to force the baby to be born breach. If the head comes out (in most states) it is a human being. If you can kill it before the head comes out then it’s an abortion.

    It is far more dangerous for the health of a woman to have a baby born breach than it is to have a normal birth. And if for some crazy reason the 7 month baby inside has to come out today due to some weird health reason, what on earth would be in the best interest for the health of the mother to hold the baby’s head inside the mother until they can kill it?

    McCain sucks but I hope there is a formal debate on this issue in the general election.
     
  2. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    How do you know what he means? Did he say that or anything similar. Or is it possible you are speculating on what a candidate thinks to fit a view of that candidate?
    I am pro-choice and I dont agree with Boxer. Nor am I sure Obama is either. Did he say so? Or give any indication beyond what he said?
    This is a stretch IMO. You give the worst case scenario of the smallest number of type of abortion. I am not a health care professional. But I am sure there are plenty of conditions that could arise late in a pregnancy that would result in severe harm or death of the mother to continue that pregnancy. To be honest, abortion is not a critical issue for me. I am pro-choice, I dont know where McCain is on the issue or many issues really because he has flopped like a dozen salmon on my boat falling out of the net.

    Hillary, it doesnt matter much what her views are to me, she wont be getting my vote.
     
  3. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    If he meant the life of the mother he would have said life of the mother. He picked his words carefully. Besides, how on earth could it be beneficial to the life of a woman to force a breech birth? And how on earth would it save her life to hold a child’s head inside of her till the child could be killed, then let it out. There are zero scenarios for a partial birth abortion.

    Though I do see where having an emergency c-section because the woman couldn’t keep the baby inside her or inducing labor AND GET THE BABY OUT OF THE WOMAN ASAP THEN INTO AN INCUBATOR!!!!!!





    And yes he did make his thoughts known clearly. When asked why he wouldn’t sign the born alive act, he said passing the born alive act is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that.

    I do not disagree it is the less popular types of abortions. But it does happen. I am sorry but there is no condition on earth that would need for a woman to have a baby breech then let the entire child be born except for the head till its killed then let the head out. There just isn’t any condition out there that could warrant this type of procedure.

    McCain claims to be pro life but says he would never do anything to protect it, and also wouldn’t do anything to try and reverse row vs. wade. So basically john McCain is as useless as tits on a boar.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    PS bunz,

    I enjoy reading your posts. I don’t agree with allot of your opinions but I like the way you bring out the other points of views

    Crystal
     
  5. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Well thanks, I do my best. And Ill be honest here, abortion is not my issue. I generally avoid it. But I have to come defend Everyone's Buddy, Obama.
    So I will be somewhat ignorant on the different medical procedures. I get the overall picture pretty well, but will do my best.
     
  6. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Just a note: any pro-life person who has followed the abortion debate for a long time knows that the "health of the mother" escape clause would allow any abortion to occur, the pro-aborts know that, and that's why they always want it in. Any woman who wanted an abortion would find a doctor to say it affects her health - probably some what certify that by interpreting "health" as mental health.
     
  7. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Crystal, these quotes are yours.
    Now in your original quote, you said quoted him as saying the health of the mother. Why would you go to assume he meant anything else?
    One must, they all do, especially him. He more than any other candidate in the history of this country has had thier statements more closely examined, and picked apart. But is it possible he chose his words because that is what he meant.
    Minimal of importance really IMHO. Now one can go back to the flap about him voting present during his time in the IL Leg, that turned out to be mute.
    I agree that this would have conflicted with RvW and would have been overturned.
    I would agree, even the shouting part of it. Before I can pass judgement on such an issue, as a federal law I would like to know some numbers of how often this is an occurance.
    Is it fair to assume that abortion is an issue for you that determines the candidates you support? Meaning, would you ever support a pro-choice candidate, or is that a non-starter?

    Now again, I dont know, for sure. But I am going to venture a guess that there are scenarios where a late term abortion is necessary for the health of the mother. Now in terms of the nitty gritty procedures. I dont know enough, but I tend to leave that to medical professionals.
    McCain serves his purposes. Dont give up on him so easy. There is a growing chance that the two most popular and viable candidates the democrats have produced in a generation, and they are going to kill thier own, possibly letting the GOP win it.
     
  8. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Thanks Lib,
    Just like any woman who wanted an abortion that went to that level would travel as far as it took to get one. Which is why this argument suggesting the prohibition of something in an effort to enforce ones morals on another is false in general. It didnt work for booze, doesnt work for drugs, it doesnt work for abortion.
     
  9. American First

    American First New Member

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    I really resent anyone that is not a woman making descisions, quotes, opinions or comments on abortion, unless of course you are the FATHER. I can't remember a discussion by women on men having vasectomies, which of course we would not know that much about either, and it would not be our body. I frequently see men protesting outside abortion clinics and wonder why they can't put their free time to better use. Yes, I feel the same way about the Supreme Court or any body with males making the decision. This is one area that a man should have NO control over. It is a woman's body.I always said if men had to have babies, it would solvel the earth's population problem.
    So happy you finally admitted Obama was your "buddy". Tell Rev. Wright that, his opinion of him as a "true friend" seems to have diminished.
     
  10. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    I agree, that is what makes me principally pro-choice. Being a man, unless I am the father or at least my family or close friend, I should have no opinion what so ever. Its not my business.

    Also, American First, of course Obama is my buddy, he is everyone's buddy!
     
  11. American First

    American First New Member

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    LOL, well at least we agree on one thing Bunz. But, no I am not Obama's buddy, never was, never will be. We still don't know enough about this YOUNG man to turn over the most important position in the United States to him. You should really keep up more on the news. Do you get CNN, FOX, MSNBC where you live? I don't want a buddy, have some, want an older, more experienced, less influinced person for the President. Warren Buffet stated today that this (recession?) is going to be worse and longer than anticipated. My stock and other investments have gone to _____. I always said when it hits the rich, they will do something about it.
     
  12. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    What else do you want to know? More dirt?
     
  13. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Uh, that was a non-sequitur. All I said is that an abortion prohibition law of any kind with a "health of the mother" escape clause wouldn't prevent a single abortion. Take that clause out and it'll work. Will it prevent all abortions? No, just almost all - all laws are violated. Ya see, what's necessary to get an abortion isn't as easy as getting an illegal bottle of booze or a crack rock and slipping it in your pocket. As for enforcing morals, that's what a great body of prohibitive law comes from - people think certain things are morally wrong, and pass laws against it. The main source of moral thought for most people is religion. I guess that's why Moses holding the ten commandments is given center stage in the east portico supreme court building pediment:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. American First

    American First New Member

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    No Bunz, I really enjoy the different view points on this House and the freedom to actually speak your true feelings, unlike some boards that delete a lot.
    What I really want is what I started this House to find out. Who is Obama? His own pastor, who even he apparently feels Barack feels no LOYATY to, has shown us a lot about this man. He will " do what is necessary to get elected". That isn't good enough. This country is so divided and in such turmoil now, this election may be our last chance before total chaos. I don't feel he is electable in the November election and I don't feel comfortable with him at this time. I have yet to get a defined political response.
     
  15. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    He did say health….. Then you asked me in your next quote how do I know what he meant.
    My reply was if he meant life of the mother he would have said life.

    He didn’t say life he said health. A person can worm any excuse out of the meaning of health.
    At the end of my post I gave you a quote from him when asked if he would pass the born alive act he said……… No. And yes he did make his thoughts known clearly. When asked why he wouldn’t sign the born alive act, he said (passing the born alive act is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that.)
    Letting the child live would put a burden on the woman. That has nothing to do with her life, only in some twisted sick way her mental health.




    sorry for the long delay, I got some flu bug and am just starting to feel better.
     
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