Obama cripples US Car Industry

[top gun]

is that US sales or World sales? its a world market...and yes they will sell more big trucks...because its about the only things that they actually make worth it if you need it. They don't make cars worth a crap. Honda barely even makes those types of trucks...and they are doing much better. And again, did anyone say they cant make and sell those trucks that are profitable? and again sales dont equal profit. And if you think just going chapt 11 and stop paying its workers will fix it....you better hope you still have workers that know what they are doing to keep it going.

Anyone that's not just brain dead or actually goes out and drives and reads the unbiased reviews knows you are correct here pocket!

Of course US automakers sell more worldwide. We dominate the heavy truck market. As far as cars... sure American car makers sell a lot of them as well. But they have tons of overlapping in essence competing against themselves.

GMC ENVOY/CHEVY TRAILBLAZER/BUICK RAINIER

or

CHEVY EQUINOX/PONTIAC TORRENT/BUICK RENDEZVOUS

And it's been this way forever. I remember at one point in time all these GM's being almost identical except for grills and badges...

Olds Cutlass/Pontiac Grand Prix/Buick Regal/Chevy Malibu

And the real tale of the tape isn't sales it's market share. Only a few short decades ago GM for instance had a 50% market share in the United States. Then like a decade ago down to a 29% market share... today only 19% and still shrinking.

So when someone comes on and raves about all the wonderful big numbers of GM cars sales... they are purposely just not telling the real story.

I have no doubt GM & Ford (Ford by the way hasn't even taken any bailout money and it has a UAW contract) when all this reorganizing is over will survive as leaner, meaner, greener companies with cars Americans will embrace.

I think Chrysler may well finally go the way of Nash, Rambler & Studebaker. And as much as I've liked the old Mopars (1970 NHRA Plum Crazy Plymouth Cuda 426 Hemi being my favorite muscle car of all times)... they may have just played out their hand from a sales competition standpoint.

 

[asur]

The only reason for Americans to buy small and unsafe cars is if gas prices go up
or Obama mandates it.

By the way, the US isn't going to buy as many of any cars anymore, unless some
strange technolgical change happens.

There are less real jobs, less consumer spending, etc. and car
prices are going up still, last I looked.

The whole auto business is in shambles in the US.
Labor Unions helped destroy it slowly but surely.
Obama may nail coffin shut.

Less jobs in a US industry is in no way "neat"

Ford isn't immune. Ford is hoping they become profitable in 2011.
Buy they are assuming tat consumer spending picks up significantly.
I see new 2008 models on lots right along with 2009 and soon to
be 2010 models. They are all about the same price.

Green cars are not currently an answer.
They are more expensive, bad for the environment actually and
less safe overall.

 

[top gun]

The only reason for Americans to buy small and unsafe cars is if gas prices go up
or Obama mandates it.

By the way, the US isn't going to buy as many of any cars anymore, unless some
strange technolgical change happens.

There are less real jobs, less consumer spending, etc. and car
prices are going up still, last I looked.

The whole auto business is in shambles in the US.
Labor Unions helped destroy it slowly but surely.
Obama may nail coffin shut.

Less jobs in a US industry is in no way "neat"

Ford isn't immune. Ford is hoping they become profitable in 2011.
Buy they are assuming tat consumer spending picks up significantly.
I see new 2008 models on lots right along with 2009 and soon to
be 2010 models. They are all about the same price.

Green cars are not currently an answer.
They are more expensive, bad for the environment actually and
less safe overall.

You fail at your... America can't do better than live with old technology and in the past defense.

Fuel efficient cars and SUV's are not unsafe. They even make huge SUV's that are hybrids. And now at 52 years old I clearly remember growing up with small cars all over the place and well loved. Everything from the British MGB, E Type Jaguar & Triumph Spitfire to the Sunbeam and the VW Beetle to the first Mustangs and Corvettes.

Old folks (or at the very least old thinking folks) in their 2 parking space big finned gas guzzling land yacht Caddys and Oldsmobiles whined then too... but they were wrong... just as you.

Cars now have padded dashes & steering wheels, ABS and airbags all around the cabins and integrated energy absorbing crumple zones and force deflecting & absorbing bumper systems and stability control systems and on & on & on...

And it's senile thinking to try and whine that those big bad workers destroyed the US auto industry. Because the reality is it was they who created it in it's hay day when companies like GM had a 50% market share in the US.

What happened is the playing field changed. Imports improved and in many cases surpassed the quality of US autos. Fuel prices became a concern over & over again and companies like Honda & Toyota pounced, even building plants in the US.

And rest assured the bulk of that money that the Unions negotiated for in their contracts to fund retirement pensions & heathcare would have been sucked right up by management and executive compensation had they just left it there on the table.

So yes things will be different. American car companies may or may not hold the market share percentages of the past here in the US. And less brands means less repetition and some fewer jobs. But we're AMERICA for Christ sake! We should want to be the BEST... not just big, boring & bloated.

And yes cars cost more now but also last longer with less repair and much longer factory warranties than they did back in the 60's or 70's.

There is a whole world out there to sell cars in. America has the worlds best most productive workers. I'll not be discouraged and frozen by the trembling fear of change. But then I'm an American that's not afraid of a challenge.

I say embrace it... do something good for the people & the planet with it... make the switch to the better just like when we left horseback or steam locomotives as old or low tech ideas.

You're only the best if can you defend your title! It's just time to put those boxing gloves back on again my friend!

 

[asur]

Topgun- Yes imports are well-made.
The SUV imports are providing the US competition and they may continue to.
But if the Unions were eliminated, it would be more level playing field.

Small cars are less safe than large one. Study the laws of physics
and consider trucks, etc. No sense in really debating physics.


topgun wrote -

America has the worlds best most productive workers. I'll not be discouraged and frozen by the trembling fear of change

Q: Where are these workers going to find equivalent jobs?
A: ?

I though this Obama bailout and stimulous scam was done to help preserve jobs?
He's killing the auto industry and yes this is change.

It' called change and it hurts America.

 

[top gun]

Topgun- Yes imports are well-made.

And that's why they've gained so much market share.

The SUV imports are providing the US competition and they may continue to.
But if the Unions were eliminated, it would be more level playing field.

I'm not Union... but I also don't subscibe to "let's have a race to the bottom for the American workers wages". Unions have been giving back... and will give back more in days to come. The fact is all the workers in the non-Union auto plants have for free received the benifits of the safety & work rule standards that the Union shops fought so hard for.

But there is no doubt that US automakers executive compensation was ridiculous as well and you can clearly see the difference between Ford and GM's positioning stratagy. Ford made moves that GM held back on. That's a management mistake.

Small cars are less safe than large one. Study the laws of physics
and consider trucks, etc. No sense in really debating physics.

Again I'm not trying to insult you but that's lacking in depth of overall knowledge & understanding of the real world situation.

A) A old full size vehicle without airbags is not safer than a mid size or even many smaller vehicles with all the newest safety technology. That's just a fact. The whole concept behind modern safety features is to overcome the rules of physics by displacing impact energy.

B) For your argument to have merit ALL drivers would have to drive Hummers and large full size trucks. Because in your scenario any regular car would be at a disadvantage.

Since this will NEVER EVER happen we should build cars with good mpg capabilities and all the most modern safety features.

topgun wrote -

Q: Where are these workers going to find equivalent jobs?
A: ?

Your question does not address the real situation properly. The fact is the US automakers were going down the tubes long before we elected President Obama.

The choice he made was to try and save as many US auto workers jobs by trying to prevent bankruptcies which scare customers away during reorganization due to worries about parts, service and warranty concerns.

Our new President is working extremely hard to stop as much job loss as possible. However he won't go along with an endless bailout plan nor should he. I'm proud that our President took an active stance and didn't just let the whole thing drop like a rock and is trying to cushion the blow as far as job losses go.

I though this Obama bailout and stimulous scam was done to help preserve jobs?
He's killing the auto industry and yes this is change.

It' called change and it hurts America.

You are just being ridiculous and seriously failing in your clueless & almost child like attempts to blame the messenger our very hard working and intelligent new President, President Obama.

You want to look at failure... Google the Bush years. That's who ran this great country into the ditch. But we will over come his complete and utter incompetence... it will take a while... but we as Americans will do it!

 

[top gun]

Topgun- Yes imports are well-made.

And that's why they've gained so much market share.

The SUV imports are providing the US competition and they may continue to.
But if the Unions were eliminated, it would be more level playing field.

I'm not Union... but I also don't subscibe to "let's have a race to the bottom for the American workers wages". Unions have been giving back... and will give back more in days to come. The fact is all the workers in the non-Union auto plants have for free received the benifits of the safety & work rule standards that the Union shops fought so hard for.

There is also no doubt that US automakers executive compensation was ridiculous as well and you can clearly see the difference between Ford and GM's positioning stratagy. Ford made moves that GM held back on. That's a management mistake.

Small cars are less safe than large one. Study the laws of physics
and consider trucks, etc. No sense in really debating physics.

Again I'm not trying to insult you but that's lacking in depth of overall knowledge & understanding of the real world situation.

A) An old full size vehicle without airbags is not safer than a mid size or even many smaller vehicles with all the newest safety technology. That's just a fact. The whole concept behind modern safety features is to overcome the rules of physics by displacing impact energy.

B) For your argument to have merit ALL drivers would have to drive Hummers and large full size trucks. Because in your scenario any regular car would be at a disadvantage.

Since this will NEVER EVER happen we should build cars with good mpg capabilities and all the most modern safety features available so they are as safe as possible.

topgun wrote -

Q: Where are these workers going to find equivalent jobs?
A: ?

Your question does not address the real situation properly. The fact is the US automakers were going down the tubes long before we elected President Obama.

The choice he made was to try and save as many US auto workers jobs by trying to prevent bankruptcies which scare customers away during reorganization due to worries about parts, service and warranty concerns.

Our new President is working extremely hard to stop as much job loss as possible. However he won't go along with an endless bailout plan nor should he. I'm proud that our President took an active stance and didn't just let the whole thing drop like a rock and is trying to cushion the blow as far as job losses go.

I though this Obama bailout and stimulous scam was done to help preserve jobs?
He's killing the auto industry and yes this is change.

It' called change and it hurts America.

You are just being ridiculous and seriously failing in your clueless & almost child like attempts to blame the messenger our very hard working and intelligent new President, President Obama.

You want to look at failure... Google the Bush years. That's who ran this great country into the ditch. But we will over come his complete and utter incompetence... it will take a while... but we as Americans will do it!

 

[asur]

Earlier this month Obama dispatched a team of 15 finance experts to Detroit to work with General Motors and Chrysler on restructuring efforts.

You can guess they exerted pressure to build green cars and eliminate
the gas guzzlers. These were not car experts by the way, which they should be.
Common sense never plays any part in a liberal politician's motives. It's all about
satisfying the green lunies backing them.

The sad part is GM and Chrysler may commit to anything to get more bailout money.

They will go under eventually, if they can't stand
up to Obama and the Greenies. They need to explain that SUVS and trucks
are where all the profit is made. All the profit! Anybody that knows cars, knows this.
Let the consumer decide, not Obama.

The unions have to go and Obama will not permit it.


Under Bush the car companies were still surviving. Under Obama they will die or just become another government organization,.

It's all also about Obama just being anti-business.
He will tax the hates out of large and small business eventually.
They will be required to pay for all the social spending.

It's called CHANGE!

Less jobs, less prosperity, babies going hungry in the US.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The Obama Administration has put pressure on Chrysler, GM, etc. to develop green cars. That's the big push and it's not smart. It is hurting these companies.

The fact is that the best selling vehicles are crossovers, SUVS and trucks.
In fact the gas drinking SUVS have kept the big three in business.
They are less expensive to make, in demand and also safer.

I guess you haven't heard....The Bush Years are OVER!!!!

​

 

[top gun]

Earlier this month Obama dispatched a team of 15 finance experts to Detroit to work with General Motors and Chrysler on restructuring efforts.

You can guess they exerted pressure to build green cars and eliminate
the gas guzzlers. These were not car experts by the way, which they should be.
Common sense never plays any part in a liberal politician's motives. It's all about
satisfying the green lunies backing them.

Because obviously doing things GM's way was an outstanding success. Over the years dropping from an over 50% US market share to 19%... BRILLIANT!!!

The fact that for the most part other manufacturers are striving for and creating better quality, better warrantied vehicles and are positioning themselves with more & more green more fuel efficient cars is not important at all.

Just like before when gas spikes up to $4 or $5 or more dollars per gallon and they'll be ready... big deal.

The environment and smog & pollution... I don't care about no stinking polution. Let the kids wear gas masks!

You really do look pretty silly... you do know this right...

The sad part is GM and Chrysler may commit to anything to get more bailout money.

BECAUSE THEY'RE FAILED BROKE COMPANIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just who do you see forcing them to take taxpayer bailout money?????? NO ONE!

But if they are going to beg for help it does sorta seem reasonable that the ones doing the giving should have some say on how to proceed. It would be the exactly the same if they sold out to another company... I'd presume the new people would have some say.

They will go under eventually, if they can't stand
up to Obama and the Greenies. They need to explain that SUVS and trucks
are where all the profit is made. All the profit! Anybody that knows cars, knows this.
Let the consumer decide, not Obama.

The unions have to go and Obama will not permit it.

Unions won't go and shouldn't have to go. They will be cut back as to pay and benefits just like management will during times that call for such action. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face to mindlessly bash Unions.

Try to remember this... Unions, the ones who gave people the weekend off.

GM probably will have to reorganize under bankruptcy law because they have a lot of changes to make and little time to do it without bankruptcy protection.

Chrysler... I think they may be too far gone. Their Jeep division may survive in some form somewhere.

And it's simply ridiculous to say in this day and time that all would be well if everybody could just drive a Hummer or large truck. It makes a lot more sense to look at the entire rest of the world and say... we need to be able to produce the worlds best energy efficient vehicles of all sizes.

When I travel to Mexico, the Bahamas, Europe and just got back from Jamaica do ya know what the general population around the world drives most? Things like Nissan Sentras, Toyota Corollas, VW Jettas and small to midsize European cars.

Under Bush the car companies were still surviving. Under Obama they will die or just become another government organization,.

You have lost your mind and all track of time. The GM & Chrysler were going broke under Bush. It's President Obama that has tried to cushion their fall and the impact to their employees. Had he not they could almost all already be out of work.

PRESIDENT OBAMA... thanks for working so hard to try and do something before the BUSH RECESSION (worst since the GREAT DEPRESSION) became the BUSH DEPRESSION!

Continue to kick butt Jedi warrior... Darth Cheney & the Evil Emperor have been defeated...

 

[asur]

TopGun - Once Obama remakes GM they will be worthless.
Obama has no experience with cars, except he drove big gas guzzlers
all his life. He had a huge carbon footprint, yes he did.
That is until he became president.

Actually GM made small profits until late in Bushes term.
Higher gas prices and Union demands hurt the SUV market.

But nothing that Obama does will revive the car market.

Obama's no good for any real business and time will prove this fact so clearly.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

TopGun - Once Obama remakes GM they will be worthless.

 

[Andy]

If this is the direction Obama pushes GM, they won't be around long.

 

[top gun]

TopGun - Once Obama remakes GM they will be worthless.
Obama has no experience with cars, except he drove big gas guzzlers
all his life. He had a huge carbon footprint, yes he did.
That is until he became president.

Actually GM made small profits until late in Bushes term.
Higher gas prices and Union demands hurt the SUV market.

But nothing that Obama does will revive the car market.

Obama's no good for any real business and time will prove this fact so clearly.

You know at least every 6 months you should change your bong water!

A) President Obama isn't running any car company. He has top people all around the industry and in major financing as well as other corporate heavy weights advising him on how the bailout money should best be apportioned out to both try and save some of the industry & also try and safeguard some of the money.

B) Senator Obama drove a Ford Escape???????? Gas Guzzler... not????

C) GM made small profits until late in Bush's term = just another one of Bush's bad economic conditions driving yet another sector into a ditch. (Hint) Obama wasn't even President yet.

D) And President Obama had nothing to do with gas spiking way up again to $4+ a gallon. Again... he wasn't even President yet and it was a market thing anyway mainly caused by speculators and instability in the Iraq/Iran region.

In conclusion I see today just as I had predicted GM formally dropped Pontiac. I heard the new CEO of GM Mr. Fitzgerald speak very highly of President Obama today and laid out how they feel streamlining the company and targeting market share and their competitors with specific models and brands made the most sense to the company.

I think they still may eventually just call GMC trucks Chevy trucks and Buick may still be on the bubble long term.

But if they can be successful offing their interests in Saab, Opel and Saturn these windfall cash moves along with the job & plant cuts and reworked compensation packages across the board Union & management... they're doing smart things to survive.

 

[asur]

topgun wrote -

In conclusion I see today just as I had predicted GM formally dropped Pontiac. I heard the new CEO of GM Mr. Fitzgerald speak very highly of President Obama today and laid out how they feel streamlining the company and targeting market share and their competitors with specific models and brands made the most sense to the company.

A) You predicted what you already read elsewhere, so don't gloat. The Pontiac
was on Obama's hit list.

B) Senator Obama drove a V8 Hemi-powered Chrysler 300C back in 2007. It emits a whiff of hypocrisy along with its exhaust fumes. He drove SUVs before this gas guzzler.

C) Under Obama GM is not making a profit. Under Bush it did.

D) Obama may allow gas to spike upward now that he is president to make his
green cars sell. He's against drilling oil in the US because it will drive
down oil prices and his base will not permit it.

D) Fitzgerald works for Obama now, so do you expect him to speak negatively of Obama.
He will get the boot if he does.


In any case Obama will continue to run these companies into the ground as
he does the overall economy. There will be no turnaround.

 

[top gun]

If this is the direction Obama pushes GM, they won't be around long.

Well of course not.

Andy I think if you actually took some time to go look at new things you'd not be so worried... or of course more likely this is just your "scare people about President Obama" by pointing to new technology extremes.

But still... hit the auto show sometime and you'll get a look at the real trends.

This kind of stuff is like that Segway stand up 2 wheel scooter some airport poice are using now. These are just nitche vehicles... advancements on things like golf carts that could also go other places... not family transportation.

The major trends are cars from the size of the Honda Civic up to the size of a Toyota Camry (or in American terms Cobalt to Malibu) that get steadily advanced better mpg in a multitude of ways and with various new technology... Hybrid SUV's... and with most work trucks still on a more standard drive line (due to torque requirements) while also tweeking their mileage capabilities a few more mpg.

Calm down...