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Obama to rescue dog from shelter

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Popeye, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    What a contrast... on one hand you have Sarah Palin who advocates the aerial slaughtering of wolves, giving out a bounty for their paws. Then you have Obama, already endorsed by the Humane Society, now ready and willing to save a life. Saving lives seems to be a foreign concept to Republicans ...human or animal.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patt-morrison/wagging-the-rescue-dog-vo_b_132233.html
     
  2. XCALIDEM

    XCALIDEM Active Member

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    [Here you go again, distording the true about the facts.

    This thread is as pathetic as you are popeye...


    Here are the real facts about about the ad that talks about aerial shooting:


    Call of the Wild
    September 24, 2008
    Updated: September 26, 2008
    A wildlife group's ad attacks Palin for supporting the shooting of wolves from airplanes. She does, but there's more to it than that.
    Summary
    A new ad from Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund shows the pursuit and shooting of a wolf from a small plane and tells viewers that Sarah Palin "actively promotes" such killings. It's true that she does, and in 2007 she offered $150 payments for anyone who brought the left forepaw of a wolf to state officials. The ad calls the practice "brutal and unethical" but doesn't tell the whole story.

    Alaskan officials call it "predator control," not aerial hunting, and use it to keep the populations of moose and caribou high for subsistence hunters.

    The program is limited to just 9 percent of the state's land mass, or five of 26 Department of Fish and Game districts.


    Far from being endangered, as they are in the Lower 48 states, gray wolves number between 7,000 and 11,000 in Alaska.

    Analysis
    This TV spot isn't for the squeamish, especially not squeamish animal-lovers. Its visuals include sinister-looking photos of Gov. Sarah Palin juxtaposed with footage of a wolf trying to outrun an airplane, then being shot and writhing in pain. Finally we see a small plane taking off, a wolf carcass tied to one of its wing struts.


    Palin and the Wolf

    There's a lot of emotional huffing and puffing in the ad. It says "Sarah Palin actively promotes the brutal and unethical aerial hunting of wolves and other wildlife" and says she encourages "cruelty" and "champions ... savagery." But strip away the emotional characterization and we're left with a description of Palin's position that is essentially factually correct, though incomplete.


    Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund Ad: "Brutal"


    Narrator: The more voters learn about Sarah Palin, the less there is to like. As Alaska governor, Sarah Palin actively promotes the brutal and unethical aerial hunting of wolves and other wildlife.
    On screen text: Palin promotes brutal aerial hunting of wildlife
    Narrator: Using a low-flying plane, they kill in winter, when there is no way to escape.
    Riddled with gunshots, biting at their backs in agony, they die a brutal death.
    And Palin even encouraged the cruelty by proposing a $150 bounty for the severed foreleg of each killed wolf.
    On screen: Encouraged cruelty with $150 bounty for severed foreleg
    Narrator: And then introduced a bill to make the killing easier.
    On screen: Introduced bill to make killing easier
    Narrator: Do we really want a vice president who champions such savagery?
    On screen: Do we really want a vice president who champions such savagery?
    Narrator: Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund is responsible for the content of this advertising.
    Here are the bare facts: As a gubernatorial candidate, and since she was elected in 2006, Palin has promoted aerial wolf and bear shooting, which is usually done with a two-seat, fixed-wing Piper Super Cub in winter, when the animals can be tracked more easily. In March 2007, Palin's administration announced that it would offer $150 for the foreleg of each freshly killed wolf, in order to encourage hunters. A lawsuit by Defenders of Wildlife and the Alaska Wildlife Alliance prompted a judge to issue a temporary restraining order to stop the payments, and the state backed off.

    Palin also proposed legislation in 2007 that would have allowed aerial shooting, under a "predator control" program, of wolverines as well as brown bears and wolves, and would have eased some of the requirements the state had to meet before approving airborne predator control in a given sector. The bill passed the House but died in Senate committee last spring; Palin has vowed to reintroduce it. So the ad is accurate on that score, as well.


    Let Us Prey


    If you think the explanation above implies a more complicated landscape than the ad shows us, you're correct. In the first place, while gray wolves are listed as an endangered species in the Lower 48, and great efforts have been made to reintroduce them in some Western states, they are abundant in Alaska. Ron Clarke, assistant director of the Division of Wildlife Conservation at the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, says the state is home to between 7,000 and 11,000 of them. Wolf populations in Alaska have bounced back since the 1950s, when federal agents conducted an extensive poisoning and aerial shooting campaign; moose and caribou proliferated as a result, in some cases leading to severe degradation of their own habitats.

    Second, it's not for nothing that wolves have acquired their big, bad reputations. Studies indicate that predators (wolves and bears) often take 70 percent to 80 percent of the moose and caribou that die each year in Alaska. Research by the state Department of Fish and Game shows that "a single wolf eats 12-13 moose in a typical year and/or 30-40 caribou, mostly calves." (Whether it's "and" or "or" would seem important, but we'll let that one slide for now.)

    Third, the state doesn't refer to the practice as aerial hunting; to Alaska officials, it's "predator control," as you may have noted above. The federal Airborne Hunting Act, passed in 1971 in response to a national outcry against aerial hunting in Alaska, prohibits shooting at or harassing any bird, fish, or other animal from aircraft. Exceptions are allowed if the federal government or a state finds aerial hunting is needed to protect "land, water, wildlife, livestock, domesticated animals, human life, or crops." In those cases, programs must be developed, individuals must obtain government permits to do the hunting, and state officials must report facts and figures to the feds on a regular basis.

    That's the situation in Alaska. If you're just some guy or gal with a small plane, a rifle, a hunting license and a six-pack, you can't take off and go hunting for wolves anywhere you happen to be. Predator control programs have been authorized by the state in five of its 26 game management units, which account for 9.4 percent of the state's land mass. Pilot-and-gunner teams have to apply for permits, and they must provide their own planes.

    The program exists in large part because the state's intensive game management law puts a premium on efforts to "restore the abundance or productivity of identified big game prey populations as necessary to achieve human consumptive use goals." The "big game prey" in question are the approximately 1 million caribou and 175,000 to 200,000 moose in the state. Subsistence hunters are a major priority in wildlife management in Alaska, although a subsistence hunter is hard to define. Clarke offered some statistics: About 20 percent of Alaska's population, or roughly 135,000 people, is classified as rural. About 92 percent to 100 percent of rural Alaskans use wild fish for food to some extent, and 79 percent to 92 percent use wildlife. Palin, herself a hunter, might live in too urban an area to be included in these statistics, but she has said she eats moose and other game.


    State law is so favorable to hunters that it requires the state to have a hunting season before school starts in fall "[f]or the purpose of encouraging adults to take children hunting."


    Leader of the Pack


    The tension in the state between those who object to aerial shooting of wolves on moral grounds (the concept of "fair chase" doesn't exist in predator control) and those who want to limit these predators so hunters will have plentiful targets, has given rise to frequent changes in the law. After the Airborne Hunting Act was passed at the federal level, Alaskans initiated a permit program that allowed aerial hunting for predator control, and some became fans of practices like "land and shoot," meaning they could use their planes to chase down the animals, land their aircraft and then shoot them.

    But the burgeoning environmental and animal welfare movements, the 1980 signing by President Jimmy Carter of the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act, several high-profile cases of hunters violating aerial hunting regulations and other factors put pressure on state government. A tourism boycott was in the works, and lawsuits were filed against the state.

    The Alaska Board of Game's adoption in 1992 of an extensive wolf-control program in several areas, with the goal of reducing wolf populations there by 80 percent, went over poorly with many in the state and the rest of the nation. Aerial hunts were canceled, then reinstated, then canceled again in 1995. Voters approved a 1996 ballot initiative that essentially banned predator control by airplane, resulting in the state's same day airborne hunting law. But the Legislature, in 1999 and 2000, rewrote the law, reversing what the referendum had done. Later in 2000, though, another ballot measure passed, restricting airborne wolf control to Department of Fish and Game personnel only.
     
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  3. XCALIDEM

    XCALIDEM Active Member

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    Continuation:

    The volley ended, at least for now, in 2003, when the Legislature reinstated airborne wolf control by private pilots and gunners, which is the program that exists today. (Alaskans voted on yet another ballot initiative to restrict the aerial hunting program to state government personnel last month. This time it failed.) Under current law, the Fish and Game Department may start a predator control program only if it finds that populations of big game have fallen below predetermined desired numbers, that "predation is an important cause" of the decline and that elimination of predators can be expected to lead to more big game. Nearly 800 wolves have been killed over the last five years through aerial hunting in order to increase the numbers of moose and caribou. The goal in some areas is to cut the wolf population by 80 percent.

    The practice of killing some animals to artificially manipulate the populations of others, of course, remains controversial. Some groups, such as Defenders of Wildlife, accuse the state of exploiting a loophole in the law. Other recent objections have come from scientists. The American Society of Mammalogists has sent several letters of concern and in 2006 passed a resolution questioning the scientific basis of the program. In 2007, 172 scientists wrote to Palin also questioning whether the program was grounded in solid research, including accurate surveys of animal populations, and whether unrealistically high target numbers of prey had been adopted. The scientists urged that the conservation of predators be considered on an equal basis with the goal of producing more moose and caribou for hunters.

    That would likely require a change in Alaska law. But Clarke insists there's no danger of a significant decline in the wolf population in Alaska. "We want wolves," he said. "We want healthy, sustainable populations."


    Predatory Ad?


    Is the aerial hunting – or predator control – that takes place in Alaska brutal, cruel, unethical savagery, as the ad says? That's a personal judgment call we'll have to leave to our readers. Alaskans themselves remain deeply divided on the issue. "We have knock-down, drag-out debates even within the [Fish and Game] department on these things," said Clarke.

    Update, Sept. 26: Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund has sent us a letter defending their ad and laying out their arguments against Alaska's "predator control" program in detail. As a courtesy to DOW and as a service to our readers we have posted their letter in full as a supporting document.

    –by Viveca Novak

    Correction, Sept. 25: In the original version of our story we misidentified the part of the plane to which the wolf carcass is tied in the ad. It's a wing strut, not a runner.

    Clarification, Sept. 25: The federal Fish and Wildlife Service de-listed gray wolves as endangered species in the Lower 48 earlier this year, saying the species had fully recovered in the Northern Rockies. However, on Sept. 22, the agency asked a court to vacate the de-listing.
    Sources
    deMarban , Alex. “State puts a bounty on wolves.” Anchorage Daily News, 21 Mar. 2007.

    Alaska State Legislature. HB 256, 11 March 2007.

    U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. “Gray Wolf (Canius Iupus),” accessed 24 Sept. 2008.

    Alaska Department of Fish and Game-Division of Wildlife Conservation. Overview of Relationships Between Bears, Wolves, and Moose in Alaska, accessed 24 Sept. 2008.

    Alaska Department of Fish and Game-Division of Wildlife Conservation. Predator Management in Alaska. November 2007.

    U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Airborne Hunting Act. 30 April 2004.

    American Society of Mammalogists. Scientists Refute Alaska's Board of Game Airborne Wolf Slaughter. 24 Oct. 2006.

    American Society of Mammalogists. Annual Reports of Standing Committees, Affiliates and Ombudspersons.

    State of Alaska. Sec. 16.05.783. "Same day airborne hunting."

    State of Alaska. Sec. 16.05.255. "Regulations of the Board of Game; management requirements."

    Interview with Ron Clarke, assistant director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Alaska Deaprtment of Fish and Game. 18 Sept. 2008.

    Interview with Kevin Saxby, senior assistant attorney general, Natural Resources Section, Civil Division, Alaska Department of Law. 18 and 24 Sept. 2008.

    Braiker, Brian, "On the Hunt." Newsweek.com, 29 Aug. 2008, Web site accessed 24 Sept. 2008.
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  4. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    Until their recent endorsement of Obama, the Humane Society had never before endorsed a presidential candidate....they had this to say about Sarah Palin:



    http://www.barkobamablog.com/2008/09/humane-society.html
     
  5. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    From wiki on the Human Society's "euthanasia" policy:

    Killing animals is a "business choice"??? Sounds real humane. And they kill animals "not appropriate for adoption"?? Gosh, that sounds an awful lot like the reasons libs give for "terminating" fetuses - the woman isn't "ready to have another baby".
     
  6. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps if he saved a child who was dying in a soiled utility room that could move me, but instead he says he will save a dog?

    This just makes me hate his stinkin guts more. I love dogs dont get me wrong, I have two of them. But without any feeling at all he condones and protects and votes for people to be able to kill fully formed human children, even voting 4 times to deny a living child outside the womb medical care, and we are to get all warm and fuzzy that he will save some dog in a pound?

    ugh
     
  7. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    This is an issue that I am with Sarah %100 as are the vast majority of people who live in the areas in concern. This is a local issue and the decisions involved need to be left to the locals. This is a case of where the most vocal critics are against killing animals in general, and there are no acceptable methods in thier minds.

    Then there are the folks in the lower 48 and elsewhere who simply are ignorant to the real situation on the ground and why this is necessary.

    I wonder what the outcry would be if we did a compilation of the carnage of what a wolf does to a domestic dog. Or moose and caribou calves and pregnant cows. A pack of wolves kills on average 200 moore or caribou a year. A prominent dog musher in a nearby village had 6 of his dogs killed by a marauding pack.

    Also, the earlier quote that said the target for this was trophy hunters is totally false.
    The concept revolves around SUBSISTENCE hunters. There is a notable difference.
     
  8. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Calidem, just a quick question for you.
    Do you think you would support aerial predator control if Hillary was on the ticket?
    I dont imagine she would be real supportive of this practice.
     
  9. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I am looking back at some old threads to find the Sarah Palin hanging picture and Popeye I came across this old thread.

    This one did not seem to work out. Another broken promise.

    How much did this pure bread dog he got from a puppy mill cost him again?.
     
  10. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    ROTFLMAO...Ignorance is bliss and should you ever, ever decide to open your eyes/ears/mind to the previous posts about the reasons that President Obama was talked out of a 'Rescue Dog' :rolleyes:

    Why that would be as earth shaking reality fact check as your understanding the huge difference between a 'BREEDER' and a puppy mill product. OMG...the hits just keep on coming {supplied by BIB} ;)

    This was one of your better LMAO obfuscative posts yet!!!
     
  11. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    This is GREAT!!!

    Our blissfully stupid liftists are more concerned with Obama saving a dog, than oh.... say...


    10% unemployment rate
    $1.4 Trillion dollar deficit
    $20 Trillion in debt over the next 9 years
    $60 Trillion in unfunded liabilities
    The Federal reserve printing money
    Our economy tanking
    Iran getting nuclear weapons

    BUT BUT HE IS SAVING A DOG!!! GUY GUYS!! THIS IS SO IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!

    The leftists are so intellectually, morally, rationally bankrupt, they should apply for a Federal bailout....
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Andy, he said he would save a dog then never did. There were dogs who did not cause allergies in the various pounds in the thousands of towns in all of the 57 states and he got one from a breeder instead.

    so on top of all the other crap going on he lied about the damn dog too !
     
  13. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    you guys are still *****ing about a damn dog?

    sad

    pathetic
     
  14. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    It's just amazing the leftist are so incredibly stupid, that while the titanic is sinking, they are dazzled about a dog. I think they are the dog, and think Obama will rescue them from the pound. Hopefully we can save many have them put to sleep.
     
  15. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    Finally we agree on something...WTH was 'BIB' strolling around the old archives and latched onto this topic about the DOG..."Obama LIED...see he told me he was going to get a shelter dog and then he DIDN'T DO THAT...just another LIE...HE'S JUST SUCH A LIAR" ;)
    GET OVER IT ALREADY

    But for you Andy, to tell 'BIB' that she's a leftist for dragging that old topic back onto the current discussion :eek:...well that was just the most amusing/hilarious {smacked that nail on the head/LMAO point} GOOD JOB...it nice to see that the other side can hit a laugh button and mean it too!!!
     
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