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Obama's Political Capital

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by GenSeneca, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    What do the Democrats do first?

    Obama has a "mandate", the world loves him (minus 48% of America), and he's standing on a huge pile of political capital (and cash). Democrats could easily peel off the votes they need to prevent a filibuster by proposing some of their more centrist legislation but even a far left bill could pass with the help of a few fawning Republicans.

    What do you think the Democrats will make a legislative priority once in power? I have seen plenty of options on the table... I'm just curious as to what you guys want to see get passed.

    Now... pay attention to just how many "intelligent" answers I get, and from whom they come... Lets see exactly how many people on this board truly want to have an open discussion about real subjects and see which ones would rather fight a war of sarcasm, satire and smears.
     
  2. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    First bring troops home, they will quickly put into place that plan.
    This Frees up cash, and alot of it.
    2nd Economy fix, health care cant be fixed like it needs to unless first the econ gets going again.This will be 1 tax cut ( maybe rebates again?) for most workers, and some more contols over banks and loans to make sure they don't do the same thing again.
    Third Work on health care system, get framework in place for new optional plan for workers to buy into ( notice the optional part)
    reform Patriot act to protect Americans and our Privacy.

    That would be the order I see best and likey
     
  3. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for answering Pocket.

    The "frees up cash" part I have to disagree with... we are borrowing the money to make up our deficit... do we continue to borrow money?

    Other than that... You mention an "optional" healthcare program... What has Wal-Mart done to its mom-n-pop competition? That's exactly what a Government tax-payer subsidized healthcare program will do to private insurers. Are you OK with that?

    And finally... What exactly is in the Patriot Act that you dislike and want changed? Personally, I didn't like that Bush revoked the Posse Commitatus law through an Executive order... Would you be for or against reinstating that law?
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    he is not bringing anyone home he is shipping them to afganastan then darfur
     
  5. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    first they need the fairness doctorin and to find a way to shut up fox news
    then they need to find a way to control your 401k

    after that it wont matter they will do what we want and we will be owned and wont be able to stop them
     
  6. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    hate to point out basic facts...wait no I dont....but we are not sending 150,000 more troops to Afganistan.
     
  7. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    the free up cash, well what we are spending monthly in Iraq right now, is all just adding to the debt, hurting our economy and effecting loans and everything. If we pull out, our costs will go way down ( funding will still be needed in Afghanistan) If anything we could put that money into something that builds jobs here, more then those that build bombs and ammo. This war drained us of money, and the fact is its basically over and we are spending billions while Iraq has surpluses.

    the patriot act, basically I would toss it all out. It was done with no real debate, took away to many rights, and gave the government to broad of powers to me. I thought that was the thing Republicans use to watch dog against. But I mean just look at the cases that have gone to the SC, most keep getting shot down . US Citizens with no trial, no lawyers, no charges....some of it got changed but only due to the courts. if you happen to recall or have seen Fahrenheit 911, many of those who voted for it never even got or read it. It was a vote that was based on fear and scare tactics, not debate and sound reason.

    Health care....umm hate to say it but Blue Cross , Health partners, and all those companies...not mom and pop shops. And do you think that we should have a system now that has millions wiht no coverage, we are paying huge sums for coverage, we have to sue those companies to use it, those who dont have coverage, your still paying for them anyway when they come in with heart attacks ( that a check up and some meds could have prevented before, but he had no coverage) costing hundreds of thousands, and in the end the US pays I believe more per capita on health care, then other nations pay and yet cover everyone.

    Small shops cant afford to pay for health care for there workers. Self employed often cant as well. trying to get it while not going threw a job is like asking to be raped and hand over your wallet as well. Those so called cheap plans people see, are scams. even my old company , a very very large company, was offering people who where part time , plans...those plans i I did the math...covered less in total cost per year then you actually paid in. Unless you really used a lot of meds. Also you lose your job, there goes your health care , sorry kids.

    So why not let people actually get into a program that you dont need to worry about if you change jobs? One with buying power to force drug companies to charge reasonable rates not more then double what they charge for the same thing outside the US? You know it is just so good its puts those others out of business what does that tell you? That people liked it , used it, and where sick of the Bull that comes there current plans. Do you have a better plan or do you tink we should just let the companies collectively rape half the people and ignore the other half?

    if some of that was off and made no sense its 4am and I should be asleep
     
  8. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    I wish I had a rolls eyes icon....
     
  9. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    demand walter to make it for you, you want it its your right to have it
    just protest and throw fits till they get it for you :)
     
  10. laughinatreps

    laughinatreps New Member

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    and then...


    sigh....


    I like Obama's list, it seems a logical order, like building a pyramid, you must build the base first:

    1 Stabilize financial system
    2 Energy Independence
    3 Health Care
    4 Tax cuts
    5 Education system

    And like he says, #4, the tax cuts and or a stimulus package may have to be a part of priority #1.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDoGhW4OF7g
     
  11. TruthAboveAll

    TruthAboveAll Active Member

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    :rolleyes: That's the roll eyes icon....
     
  12. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to focus on actual legislation and legislative proposals whenever possible. The time for campaign rhetoric is over... We need to know the specifics that relate to achieving the stated policy goals. Just listing the goals is a good start, but there needs to be substance now. Democrats may very well name a bill the "Stabilize Economy Act" but its not the title I'm interested in, I want to hear the actual plan, with all its details.

    That spending is not going away... Once government starts spending money, whether we have it or not, government doesn't stop spending that money... they find other places to spend it... and people just like yourself have no problem with deficit spending so long as its for a "good" cause.

    Even if we actually left Iraq - which we will not do - that money would be spent somewhere else. For example, Obama wants the World Poverty Act, which would spend more in 5 years in Africa (800 Billion) than we have spent in 5 years in Iraq (750 Billion). Talk about a built in replacement expense!

    Just out of curiosity... exactly what jobs can government create that do not require continual funding? Like if government spent 1 trillion dollars to "create jobs", what jobs would they be and where would the money come from to keep those people in jobs after the start up capital was gone?

    If you find Micheal Moore to be an honest and reliable source of information... I can see why you honestly believe people like myself are mis/ill/un-informed morons.

    If you want to know about the Patriot Act, I suggest you start by actually reading the legislation... Not take someone else's word for whats in there.

    http://thomas.loc.gov The original bill is H.R.3162

    For example:

    SEC. 412. MANDATORY DETENTION OF SUSPECTED TERRORISTS; HABEAS CORPUS; JUDICIAL REVIEW.


    That title looks ominous but it clearly states in the text that the suspension of Habeas Corpus applies only to "Aliens" and not US Citizens.

    If you take the time to go through and look for yourself, you will likely find, as I did, that the information you are getting second hand has been twisted.

    I suggest you also look at Darpa - Information Awareness Office - ECHELON

    The aforementioned programs and departments were violating the rights of US citizens long before the Patriot Act... Only difference is, you didn't know about it.
    Compared to the Federal Government, yes, yes they are... Also, Wal-Mart doesn't get to write the regulations and set the tax codes etc. for their competition... our government would be doing just that to the Healthcare Companies and Insurance Providers.
    Taxpayer subsidized healthcare, the kind that competes with for profit providers, is a recipe for disaster. As people jump ship from private providers to get on the Government Provided bandwagon, the cost of the private will go up... causing more people to jump ship... causing the cost to go up... and while both sectors have astronomical rises in costs, the only thing keeping government healthcare "affordable" will be the fact that its subsidized on the backs of generations not yet born. We're already living on credit, have been for decades... where will you draw the line?

    I can buy private coverage now and it will follow me to any job... forcing employers to offer healthcare insurance is part of why the costs are so enormous... which is a big reason why big business, and small, are so interested in Taxpayer subsidized insurance from the Government, saves them a great deal of money. If they weren't forced to provide insurance, but it was their option as it used to be, the costs would come down as more people began sifting through competing providers to get the best balance of price and coverage.
    Do you know how much it costs to create a new drug? Did you know the drug companies offer their medications to people for free, or reduced cost?
    Yes... And its quite simple and extensive - as opposed to being massive and expensive.
    Some of it did seem off... I'm quite sure it comes down to a difference of where and how we get our information, and from whom. If we start looking at information that we can agree is good, we will find ourselves agreeing on all kinds of things from that point on.
     
  13. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    I think Energy independence is to high, really its not something that can be solved today its a ways off. Health care and the markets need to be fixed now and fast . the Energy will come out of the normal yearly energy bill and not be a major focus we see I think, just something that gets done.

    On Education its clear he needs to quickly do one of 2 things, fund NCLB, or end it. Evry teacher I know says END IT NOW. they all hate it and say it teaches the kids nothing but how to pass a test.
     
  14. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    Der I was thinking the one where the eyes actually move lol
     
  15. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    the 911 part I said was interviews with senators and such who stated they did not get a chance to read it,....Just because Moore holds the camera or directs does nto change what they said. Rush could have put it out. See thing about Moore's movies, is it the words spoken by others on there, not his own that move people. I don't always agree with him, but fact is those where the words of the people who voted for it, that it was rushed and there was not enough real debate.

    And as for health care, I based it on a few things. 1. that I worked my *** off for years, often times 2 jobs, or 1 and full time college....had no health care for about 7 out of hte last 8 years. So no one is going to tell me this is a good system. 2nd the reason why I could not get full time work half the time, was they wanted lots of part time workers because tey had to pay health care if I got full time. so I got no health care and had to pick up 2nd jobs to cover the lost hours. I have friends who are DR's and Nurses who tell me about how bad it has gotten with the health care and Insurance companies basically working with each other to drive up profits. The Dr is my friend ( a nurses) dad, hard core Republican he wants universal health care. and if the biggest problem you have is that the government health care plan, that already exists, being open to others, is taht everyone one will want it then ask yourself why do they want it? because the private system has failed us, its a cash cow that puts patients 2nd to profits

    customer I had just ago was going under losing everything from health care cost, and they had a "good" plan and coverage. I believe the leading cause of people filing bankruptcy is health care cost. This system is covering half the people and draining the ones who do have it.

    Companies here are forced to pay for there workers, at huge cost to them, and yet tey cant even cover all there workers. If they where in any other nation even half way civilized, they would not have to pay those costs. its just one more reason to move offshore and lose American jobs.

    And like it or not, your paying for health care for people anyway, you just are paying the huge cost of what happens when people dont get early treatment at a huge inflated price.
     
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