OK, here's a question...

[GenSeneca]

We Dems had to tolerate 8 years of an expensive War-of-choice. Now, it's your turn.

Wars eventually end and we no longer have the expense. Your welfare state never ends and only gets more expensive.

 

[GenSeneca]

Public education wasn't written up in the Constitution either ...

Which is why Public education is funded by individual states and local governments. We shouldn't have a Dept. of Education that allocates tax money, if it must exist at all, then it should be limited to ensuring federal standards of education.

Your ignorance of the federalist system of governance leads you believe the propaganda about how irrelevent our constitution and founding principles are in todays society. With our mounting deficits and endless debt resulting in the monetization of our debts, the encroachments of government on our freedoms and the mindboggling amount of fraud, corruption and waste in federal government makes the principles that founded this country just as relevent today as they were 200 years ago and will be 200 years from now.

 

[Bob the Builder]

Hey Bob, any relation to Tito?

That would all depend on how closely related you mean. After all, since we all spring from the same origin way back in history (whether you take that to mean Adam and Eve, or something that crawled out of a slime-pit is a discussion for another thread), we are technically related, but definately not close enough to pass bread across the table at Thanksgiving.

 

[Bob the Builder]

So do fewer visits to emergency-rooms.....​

Abuse of the emergency room has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Again, the question is WHY should I have to pay for YOUR healthcare?

 

[Bob the Builder]

Oh, Bob, every time I hear someone misquote that LIE about being turned away from a hospital...I just shake my head and SIGH...are you soooo misinformed or just don't ask?

Unless the hospital is our county hospital {out here in the RURAL areas of America} you can and will be turned away for any medical procedure: emergency or any other reason {no insurance no admittance}. If the area hospital receives any grant funds {for research/new equipment} from our government then they are obligated to provide assistance to any and all humans needing services and this has to be posted at the entrances of all hospitals receiveing the grants. At one time they were obligated for the next 20 {Hill-Burton Act private non-profit hosiptals} years to provide aide/assistance/any and all medical services to the uninsured humans...I don't know if this is still the case but that's how the grant funding was written up in the 80's - 90's.

I can't imagine that the grants have changed from this process...but I could be wrong...haven't had the opportunity to do any grant writing in the last 10 years!

LIE? Are you completely mental, or do you just insult people on the internet?

In case you missed it, the law was passed under Reagan that makes it a FEDERAL CRIME to "treat and street" people simply because they can't pay. My wife had to have emergency surgery several years ago, we had no insurance, so they sent me the bills, and I paid them. It took me a couple of years, but I paid every penny I owed. Now, if you have some proof to support your allegation, then present it, but don't make the mistake of running around calling people you don't know a liar, that's a real good way to have a REALLY bad day.

 

[Bob the Builder]

Public education wasn't written up in the Constitution either and we've amended the guidelines and made it mandatory:

Perhaps you would care to point to the exact Amendment in the Constitution that provides for public education? It's not there, which is why every school board in the country is operated by the State and County.

Clinging to the founding fathers thoughts and mindset at the time {circa 200 plus years ago} is like comparing the way in which they understood the human anatomy to today's science and medical procedures...we have evolved and we do acquire more knowledge and a greater understanding for social services and the processes that it takes to keep things equal for the masses![/quote}

Equal for the masses?!?!?!? What are you, a Stalin communist? Oh, and there's a very simple way of resolving this question, amend the Constitution to allow for whatever it is that you want to do! All you have to do is to get 3/4 of the States to go along with you, and viola`!

Our medical providers and private HMO's have had a field day with exuberant charges...we all end up paying for the gouging & the dead beats...one way or another...it comes right back on the backs of the worker B's! You just seem to hate that it's so Black & White!

I don't "hate" anything, I just despise having to pay for other peoples treatments when I have to pay for mine and my families! That's what's wrong with the entire socialist concept, why should anyone do for themselves when they can get someone else to do it for them? Well, what happens when there aren't enough people left to do the doing for them and they have to start doing for themselves again? They won't know how, and then they're REALLY screwed!

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, TEACH a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime!

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

LIE? Are you completely mental, or do you just insult people on the internet?

In case you missed it, the law was passed under Reagan that makes it a FEDERAL CRIME to "treat and street" people simply because they can't pay. My wife had to have emergency surgery several years ago, we had no insurance, so they sent me the bills, and I paid them. It took me a couple of years, but I paid every penny I owed. Now, if you have some proof to support your allegation, then present it, but don't make the mistake of running around calling people you don't know a liar, that's a real good way to have a REALLY bad day.

If you are unable to determine the difference between a statement of 'false reasoning' and a mental condition then I would suggest that you quit asking for assistance in a clearer understanding of>>> "OK, here's a question".

Your thought process is as scattered as your ability to stay on point...
The Federal Crime to "treat & street" people is based on the false thought that the people are even admitted into the hospital when the ambulance will be denied access to drop the emergency off at the door, the medical emergency will be denied to the person walking into the door needing the assistance...YOU'VE ASSumed that the hospital has to allow the service to be provided and my POINT was...you are wrong in that ASSumption and I pointed that out to you for greater understanding on the original post of your QUESTION.

If this causes you so such a vitriolic reaction then don't ask a really tough question and get caustic about your wrong thought process. Hysteria and over emotional wording just makes you another reactionary poster looking for a fight and not wanting to LEARN the ERROR of your thought process. Fine, I can live with that...live long and prosper in your ignorance...but it won't change the way in which you've got this 'MUST SERVE THE PUBLIC FOR EMERGENCY FOR HOSPITALS'...you are wrong in that ASSumption.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Which is why Public education is funded by individual states and local governments. We shouldn't have a Dept. of Education that allocates tax money, if it must exist at all, then it should be limited to ensuring federal standards of education.

Your ignorance of the federalist system of governance leads you believe the propaganda about how irrelevent our constitution and founding principles are in todays society. With our mounting deficits and endless debt resulting in the monetization of our debts, the encroachments of government on our freedoms and the mindboggling amount of fraud, corruption and waste in federal government makes the principles that founded this country just as relevent today as they were 200 years ago and will be 200 years from now.

I don't believe I said that the founding fathers were 'irrelevant' or that the Constitution was too...you've misquoted that...I'll allow that your reading words that were not written due to your emotional response??? that blew into this: "monetization of our debts/encroachments/fraud/corruptions/waste...yada, yada, yada"

The federal commitment to improve and finance public schools expanded enormously when Congress passed the National Defense Education Act of 1958 and the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965. In these two landmark statutes, Congress addressed for the first time such broad problems as expanding educational opportunity for poor children and improving instruction in pivotal but usually neglected subjects, such as science, mathematics, and foreign languages. Other federal acts that addressed educational issues in this period were the Vocational Education Act of 1963, the Manpower Development and Training Act of 1963, and the International Education Act of 1966.

You probably won't but you might enjoy reading: http://www.servintfree.net/~aidmn-e...2001-11/PublicEducationInTheUnitedStates.html

But this topic is about health care and the question was asked 'WHY' should we all have to pay?

 

[PLC1]

The fact is that we do all pay for other people's health care. When the indigent person goes to the emergency room with a case of the flu, he gets treated. Someone, somewhere, has to pay. There is no free lunch, nor is there free medical care.

The real question is, how can our medical care system be made more efficient?

The answer is not to expand the federal government.

I know, that's a flip flop on my part.

If California were to have a state run health insurance system, (note: I didn't say state run health care, which is a different thing altogether), and if it were to be run efficiently and well, then industry would be attracted to this state as employers would be paying less for employee health care. People would have an incentive to come here.

If California were to have a state run health insurance system, and run it poorly, then industry would tend to go elsewhere, and people would have an incentive to leave.

If the federal government were to have a poorly run health insurance system, where would we go?

Canada?

Anyway, as has already been pointed out, the Constitution does not give the federal government the power to run a health care system.

Of course, it doesn't have the power to run an educational system, either, yet both Republican and Democratic administrations have supported the failed Department of Education.

 

[Bob the Builder]

If you are unable to determine the difference between a statement of 'false reasoning' and a mental condition then I would suggest that you quit asking for assistance in a clearer understanding of>>> "OK, here's a question".

Your thought process is as scattered as your ability to stay on point...
The Federal Crime to "treat & street" people is based on the false thought that the people are even admitted into the hospital when the ambulance will be denied access to drop the emergency off at the door, the medical emergency will be denied to the person walking into the door needing the assistance...YOU'VE ASSumed that the hospital has to allow the service to be provided and my POINT was...you are wrong in that ASSumption and I pointed that out to you for greater understanding on the original post of your QUESTION.

If this causes you so such a vitriolic reaction then don't ask a really tough question and get caustic about your wrong thought process. Hysteria and over emotional wording just makes you another reactionary poster looking for a fight and not wanting to LEARN the ERROR of your thought process. Fine, I can live with that...live long and prosper in your ignorance...but it won't change the way in which you've got this 'MUST SERVE THE PUBLIC FOR EMERGENCY FOR HOSPITALS'...you are wrong in that ASSumption.

ASCPA, I've tried to be a nice guy here, being new and all, but your insults have gotten old, so let's try it this way; YOU are the liar here. if anyone calls an ambulance to take them to the hospital, or goes by themselves to an emergency room, they MUST be treated. There are no "if's, and's, or but's" about it. It is a FEDERAL CRIME to 1) refuse to treat someone, and 2) to "treat and street", which exactly why Michelle Obama's old hospital is currently under federal investigation! Now, a specific hospital or doctors office may not be specifically suited to deal with a specific injury or illness but they must, at a minimum, provide whatever emergency treatment they can until you are stabilized and can be transferred to an appropriate medical facility.

By point of evidence, several years ago a friend of mine was hurt at work (he fell off of a ladder while changing a light bulb, resulting in a rather nasty gash in his head and a broken arm) and was taken to a womens hospital since it was only 2 blocks away. Even though his employer didn't have Workers Comp (a minor flaw in the laws of the State), he was still immediately seen, treated, and stabilized, an ambulance was called, and he was taken to the General hospital across town, and they too admitted him for treatment, regardless of the lack of insurance (his employer wound up paying for his treatment out of his own pocket).

The only "flawed" thought process in any of this is the belief, much less the insistance, that it is the federal governments right, or responsibility to in any way provide for anyone's healthcare. Unless or until you can direct me to the specific Article, Section, and clause of the US Constitution, or one of it's amendments that provides for the government to do so, it, like so many other programs and expendatures is patently unconstitutional from the start, and anyone who claims that it is the governments responsibility, or right, to do so is full of ****.

Now, getting back to the main question at hand, by what right does the federal government pay for anyones healthcare?

 

[Bob the Builder]

The real question is, how can our medical care system be made more efficient?

The answer is not to expand the federal government.

Very true. In my opinion, the best way to improve the condition of American healthcare, and reduce the overburdensome costs of it can be resolved by a very simple means; 1) outlaw conventional "health insurance", and only allow "catastrophic healthcare" insurance, 2) go after the hospitals and doctors for "gouging", 3) severe tort reform, and 4) we have GOT to quit paying for illegals.

To be honest, most people today are a bunch of whiney children, running to their mommy (the doctor) every time they get the sniffles, or a simple cold, and that's BS! My God, if our forefathers were as weak of blood as the average American is today, they wouldn't have made it through their first New England winter or southern summer without DYING!

There is no reason in the world, when you go to the doctor or the hospital to have to pay $5 for an aspirin tablet, or $2 for a kleenex tissue! That's nothing but robbery, and it should be stamped out. People complain about a $600 toilet seat and a $200 wrench in the military (when that was "creative accounting" to pay for "Black projects" like the stealth bomber), but nobody has squat to say about the BILLIONS that we get charged for tissues? PLEASE!

As far as tort reform, if you go in to have one foot operated on, and they take off the other one, or there is some obvious malpractice, fine, sue the doctor for his neglegence, take everything he's got and revoke his license, but all of these frivelous lawsuits are doing nothing but driving up the costs for all of us!

When it comes to illegals, too bad, so sad, it sucks to be them! If an illegal shows up at a hospital, fine, treat them...WHILE you're waiting for ICE to show up and haul them off to be deported.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

ASCPA, I've tried to be a nice guy here, being new and all, but your insults have gotten old, so let's try it this way; YOU are the liar here. if anyone calls an ambulance to take them to the hospital, or goes by themselves to an emergency room, they MUST be treated. There are no "if's, and's, or but's" about it. It is a FEDERAL CRIME to 1) refuse to treat someone, and 2) to "treat and street", which exactly why Michelle Obama's old hospital is currently under federal investigation! Now, a specific hospital or doctors office may not be specifically suited to deal with a specific injury or illness but they must, at a minimum, provide whatever emergency treatment they can until you are stabilized and can be transferred to an appropriate medical facility.

RIGHT, you are all that and the card carrying member of the I KNOW THE LAW BRIGADE...LMAO

To make an incorrect statement and then to push it off as a 'FEDERAL LAW' and keep repeating it as a fact is not an insult...hmm and yet you are trying to be 'NICE'.

Yep, that seems to be what you keep saying but the words say something entirely different!!!

Maybe you could/should contact some Paramedic/Ambulance drivers and check with what they are told to do with emergency people whom have no insurance??? and then quote your 'Federal Law' to those people and see what reaction you get. Private Emergency services get told where to take the indigent...emergency services are denied to people all of the time...happened to my son during an appendectomy emergency {circa 1980's}, happened to my husband outside of Wichita during the 1990's...happens to my brother in-law who is a paramedic/EMT technician...happens to my son who is a firefighter/paramedic/ambulance driver...every situation different parts of the United States of America, different years, different situations and it still is going on. But profess and cry yourself into 'hysteria fit' it won't change what is going on...you're just delusional and being a 'newbie' just makes it rather odd that your reacting this way about your confusion??? Hmm

Ya, boy, we sure don't need any uniform health care...why in your world everyone is being taken care of cause you have a 'Federal Law' that tells you they are ...LOL

 

[Bob the Builder]

RIGHT, you are all that and the card carrying member of the I KNOW THE LAW BRIGADE...LMAO

To make an incorrect statement and then to push it off as a 'FEDERAL LAW' and keep repeating it as a fact is not an insult...hmm and yet you are trying to be 'NICE'.

Yep, that seems to be what you keep saying but the words say something entirely different!!!

Disprove my statements, or admit you're a liar, either will suffice. Better yet, ANSWER THE ORIGINAL QUESTION AS ASKED!!

Maybe you could/should contact some Paramedic/Ambulance drivers and check with what they are told to do with emergency people whom have no insurance???

Cite your references then! First of all, how would an EMT/Paramedic know if someone has insurance or not? Secondly, exactly what does any of that have to do with answering the question of WHY I should pay for YOUR healthcare, or by what right the government taxes me and spends my money on patently unconstitutional expendatures.

and then quote your 'Federal Law' to those people and see what reaction you get. Private Emergency services get told where to take the indigent...emergency services are denied to people all of the time...happened to my son during an appendectomy emergency {circa 1980's}, happened to my husband outside of Wichita during the 1990's...happens to my brother in-law who is a paramedic/EMT technician...happens to my son who is a firefighter/paramedic/ambulance driver...every situation different parts of the United States of America, different years, different situations and it still is going on. But profess and cry yourself into 'hysteria fit' it won't change what is going on...you're just delusional and being a 'newbie' just makes it rather odd that your reacting this way about your confusion??? Hmm

I see, so when faced with insurmountable evidence to the contrary, you simply resort to more lies and misdirection. Exactly WHAT happened to your son back in the '80's has no bearing on the question as asked. Exactly WHAT happened to your husband outside of Wichita in the 90's does not address the question as asked. Really now, you're just pulling this crap out of your ass and trying to push it off on everyone to avoid answering the question I originally asked; WHY IS IT THE GOVERNMENTS RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE? WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE? Answer THOSE questions, and then we can talk about your mytical predicaments.

Ya, boy, we sure don't need any uniform health care...why in your world everyone is being taken care of cause you have a 'Federal Law' that tells you they are ...LOL

There's a world of difference between "uniform" healthcare, and "universal" healthcare, or Socialized medicine, or whatever else you want to call it.

 

[Pandora]

That would all depend on how closely related you mean. After all, since we all spring from the same origin way back in history (whether you take that to mean Adam and Eve, or something that crawled out of a slime-pit is a discussion for another thread), we are technically related, but definately not close enough to pass bread across the table at Thanksgiving.

I guess I meant politically. Tito the builder is the guy who came out to defend Joe the Plumber when he was attacked for asking a question of obama.

 

[Pandora]

Disprove my statements, or admit you're a liar, either will suffice. Better yet, ANSWER THE ORIGINAL QUESTION AS ASKED!!



Cite your references then! First of all, how would an EMT/Paramedic know if someone has insurance or not? Secondly, exactly what does any of that have to do with answering the question of WHY I should pay for YOUR healthcare, or by what right the government taxes me and spends my money on patently unconstitutional expendatures.



I see, so when faced with insurmountable evidence to the contrary, you simply resort to more lies and misdirection. Exactly WHAT happened to your son back in the '80's has no bearing on the question as asked. Exactly WHAT happened to your husband outside of Wichita in the 90's does not address the question as asked. Really now, you're just pulling this crap out of your ass and trying to push it off on everyone to avoid answering the question I originally asked; WHY IS IT THE GOVERNMENTS RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE? WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE? Answer THOSE questions, and then we can talk about your mytical predicaments.



There's a world of difference between "uniform" healthcare, and "universal" healthcare, or Socialized medicine, or whatever else you want to call it.

You are absolutely right. Even obama stated this was true. His complaint was if we treat people before they come in the emergency room it would be cheaper than treating them at the emergency room. But that is another argument. If someone is saying that an emergency room can turn away people they are just simply mistaken.

Even if you have a prior bill at the hospital emergency room the hospital can not refuse you treatment. If they can possibly get money or insurance info from you they will but if you are a homeless person with nothing but your injury and $10,000.00 in prior debt to that same hospital they still have to treat your condition.

That is why the rest of us pay so much, because many who go to the emergency room do not pay.