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Olmert to Resign

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by BigRob, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    This will have huge implications on the peace process between Israel/Palestine and even for Syria. Could even open the door for Barak to come back, and the Kadima party does not control any majority in the parliament.
     
  2. UShadItComing

    UShadItComing New Member

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    It could have positive implications for the peace process Rob. Olmert was good at nothing more than making it look like the Zionists were cooperating, while in truth the settlement building went on.
     
  3. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Indeed it could, but it all remains to be seen based on who takes power now.
     
  4. UShadItComing

    UShadItComing New Member

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    The Israeli people need to come together and overrule the Zionists, it's as simple as that. Israel is never going to disappear and I'm fully convinced that nobody wants that. I think there is a lot of propaganda work at play to make it look that way but even Ahmadinejad's words didn't ever suggest that. I would suppose that you are intelligent enough to know that but I'm not sure you are fair enough. Sincerely Rob, from the world's POV the Americans are very jaded on this issue and the world thinks that if the US would allow a policy of fairness, the UN could end this problem overnight nearly.

    ON a positive note, I think that the US now realizes that a lot of the woes of terrorism would also come to an end if it just took a fair policy line toward the question. A fair solution and then a very hardline peacekeeping force to make sure it's not destroyed again. If that was to happen then I could easily agree to a total condemnation of the offenders.
     
  5. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    You have to understand that in Israel there are many different factions. Hardliners want it their way, the moderates want it their way, and so on. I agree that there is a lot of anti-Israeli rhetoric going around and while I would agree that some of that is purely political, you have to put yourself in the shoes of Israel. Israel has been almost constantly invaded since it was created, they have no choice but to take such rhetoric seriously.

    As for the UN. The UN is part of the problem in regards to Israel. If it was not for the United States backing Israel in the UN, Israel would have already been overtaken.

    For example:
    1) Of 10 emergency special sessions called by the U.N. General Assembly (GA), six have been about Israel. No emergency sessions have been held on the Rwandan genocide, ethnic cleaning in the former Yugoslavia, or the two decades of atrocities in Sudan.
    2) A series of anti-Israel resolutions are passed each year by the GA.
    3) The U.N. Human Rights Council, which replaced the Commission on Human Rights in March 2006, has been no better than its hopelessly ineffective predecessor, with Israel remaining the most consistent target for unjustified vilification and demonization.
    4) For decades Israel was the only member nation consistently denied admission into a regional group. The Arab states continue to prevent Israeli membership in the Asian Regional Group, Israel's natural geopolitical grouping. As a result, Israel sought entry into the Western and Others Group (WEOG) and in May 2000 was granted admission to that regional group in New York, but not in Geneva, the seat of several U.N. bodies and subsidiary organizations. Israel's full participation in the U.N., therefore, is still limited and it is restricted from participating in U.N.-Geneva based activities.

    For the UN to solve any problem, the UN must first actually allow Israel to act as a full member of the UN.

    A big part of the problem with why Bin Laden dislikes the United States is because of our policies in Saudi Arabia. The fact that we had soldiers stationed there and the areas they were stationed he viewed as completely unacceptable. To send in a huge peacekeeping force might cause more problems that it would solve, and I do not think Israel would allow it. Now I am all for it if they end the conflict, but to blame Israel for the problems is wrong. Israel has been continuously invaded, regularly bombed by extremists, and undergoes rocket attacks regularly as well. They are concerned about their survival, and that issue is one that must be discussed when trying to solve this problem.

    Further, there are many groups among the Palestinians who are arguing over the solution. Neither group is one unified front, you have to understand all of the different dynamics going on in each group. Peace talks have showed signs of success before, and then rocket attacks or bombings begin again, because elements of each group do not want what the peace is shaping up to be.
     
  6. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Peace, as defined by the Collective, is the absence of opposition to Socialism.

    All those who stand in the way of "Progress" must therefore be Fascists... You know, Racists wrapped in a flag.

    So here's Israel, a creation born from the horrors of the National Socialist ideology, being accused of being... you guessed it, Fascists - for not wanting to be "wiped off the map" at the alter of the "Greater Good".

    Perfect logic... nice and round.
     
  7. UShadItComing

    UShadItComing New Member

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    Good post which deserves a thorough response and rebuttal in part. I'll get back to you.
     
  8. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I really like the way you worded that. I wish I could make it into a bumper sticker!

    I hope Israel picks someone willing to stand his ground. I always worry for them.
     
  9. UShadItComing

    UShadItComing New Member

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    Rob- On second thought I have decided to just not get into the discussion with you on Israel/Palestine. It seems to me though that most Ameircans are completely convinced of Israel being on the side of right while I am not persuaded that is true. I'm jut more inclined to believe that Jimmy Carter has it about right in his book which I found excellent. Have you read it and are there any points you would like to raise.

    I don't run from debates and I think you know that by now. In that respect I think that we have at least gained some respect for each other. But I am very weary of getting into debates which don't ever succeed in reaching any kind of concensus.

    That's got a lot to do with my attempts to stir up the peanut gallery lately. For me this forum will offer a chance at a good debate from time to time but seldom. And as of yet I find few members who are worthy.
     
  10. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    I have read the book. I think that many analogies that he draws are bogus. Such as his comparison of the situation in Israel to the South African apartheid.

    I do not think that the situation in Israel right now is a race situation, therefore the analogy with South Africa is flawed. I also think that Carter tries to put to much blame on the Israelis for everything that has happened, but ignores everything from the Israeli perspective.

    Carter, from what I remember (It has been awhile since I read it) also blames Israel for not offering to withdraw from the "occupied territories" but really sidesteps the issue of the constant invasions and UN denouncements of Israel. It therefore should not surprise anyone, that Israel is slow to trust much of anything of what the UN has to say.
     
  11. UShadItComing

    UShadItComing New Member

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    Well I guess there's no common ground there either. Can we at least agree that Israel excludes Palestinians from being a part of Israel as equals while at the same time inviting Jews from around the world to come to Israel and settle on the land?
     
  12. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    The israelis treat palestinians FAR better than palestinians in arab countries. They've risen to cabinet posts in israel, but are confined to refugee camps in the arab countries. Lots of jews came to israel because they were KICKED out of arab countries after the arabs lost the israeli war for independence. Your perception of reality is warped. Also, your continuous reference to the "zionists", straight out of islamofascist propaganda, nails you as an anti-semitic bigot.
     
  13. UShadItComing

    UShadItComing New Member

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    Zionists are zionist libs, and jews are jews, and Israelis are israelis. And you're a crude little pup.
     
  14. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    No, because Palestinians have the ability to become Israeli citizens. Many in fact have, but many refuse to do so.

    Many Arab states, even Jordan (which is mostly palestinians) occupied Gaza and refused to make it an independent state. Palestinians are as much to blame as anyway in this case.
     
  15. UShadItComing

    UShadItComing New Member

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    The Israelis are simply going to get their deserved comeuppance because the US is not going to bomb Iran and the Israelis won't do it themselves because they would be hit too hard for their little country to be able to stand. So Iran is going to get the bomb sooner or later and the whole game gets to be played differently. If the US is smart it will get the hell out of the ME and start playing nice. There are much more important things for the US to do than look after nasty and selfish Jews who can't stop being arrogant and uppity toward others.
     
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