One out of 47 million

Your headline indicated "47 million". That number was invented by someone a few years ago, who included 15 million or so illegal aliens in his count of people who didn't have their own health insurance, inflating the number as much as possible.

Did you notice that, in Obama's recent Health Care speech, this number suddenly shrank to 36 million, without an explanation?

Obama and his cohorts had long been touting "46 million" or "45 million" or numbers in that range. And at the same time, Obama had been insisting that "his" plan would not cover illegals (despite there being no language in any Democrat bill authorizing anyone to check for immigration status before treating a patient).

Sounds like someone finally got through to him what the numbers he had been quoting, really meant.

But as you pointed out, illegal aliens have been receiving treatment all along, anyway... just as they will under present versions of Obamacare (whichever bill he means).


well gosh its its only 36 million Americans without coverage ( and got knows how many who cant afford the coverage they have, or dont have enough coverage) then who needs reform?
 
Werbung:
Call the county officials in the counties shown in the map here and see if you can find anyone turned away:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-03-07-immigrants-health_x.htm

I don't know for sure how many got turned away but what I do know is that Los Angeles County Hospitals didn't turn you away but instead dumped you on skid row if you couldn't pay your medical bills and that is a FACT. It didn't take a Micheal Moore Movie neither to convince that was taking place. Instead it was the LAPD who were getting reports of Area County Ambulances and Sheriff Deputies doing the dumping. It got to the point the LAPD set up Camera's around Skid Row for the public to see for them selves what was going on. I don't care how poor you are but to be dumped like yesterdays garbage with IV's sticking out of you is just plain WRONG and not RIGHT PERIOD!!!!
 
because
1. Dems have the majority now
2. the Elections for 2010 mean people will play more politics, the closer to 2010, the less likey it will be to get a bill passed.
3. Those without health care, cant wait for the "right time"
4. they have been working on trying to get heal care reformed since the 90's, its not like its out of the blue.

I am so glad that you used that bolded line as part of your argument since that is the topic of this thread. So maybe you can detail for us just one of those people who don't have access to health care.
 
and guess who would pay for it? Taxpayers! So if I am going to die, and its a big spendy bill you can pay for it...when I was very sick, and not able to work, and all I needed was some anti biotics to fix it...I was not able to get any...I sat at home, not working , thus lossing money I could not afford to not be at work making...Had I had them, I could have been back to work in like 2 days...but nope ended up sick for more like 2 weeks. I was actuly going to resort to getting meds from a freind that had left overs...while very unsafe, it was getting to be my only option...So yes I had the black market to fall back on, how great.

There is no Choice to just get it free you ***** if you could just get it all free, why the Hell do you pay for insurance? lets just all not have insurance, and just show up saying Im sick fix me, and pretend no one realy pays for it.

So just how expensive were those antibiotics and why were you unable to get them? Are you sure that the black market was your last resort?

And if you show up at the ER and someone else pays for your care is that better than if the gov buys your insurance for you? I will answer that one. yes it is better because the first example is capitalism that maintains many freedoms while the later example is socialism that restricts many freedoms. Even if somone else pays for your care there are good ways to do it and bad ways.
 
I don't know for sure how many got turned away but what I do know is that Los Angeles County Hospitals didn't turn you away but instead dumped you on skid row if you couldn't pay your medical bills and that is a FACT. It didn't take a Micheal Moore Movie neither to convince that was taking place. Instead it was the LAPD who were getting reports of Area County Ambulances and Sheriff Deputies doing the dumping. It got to the point the LAPD set up Camera's around Skid Row for the public to see for them selves what was going on. I don't care how poor you are but to be dumped like yesterdays garbage with IV's sticking out of you is just plain WRONG and not RIGHT PERIOD!!!!

That would be wrong and it just might be an example of a person not having access to care. But in this thread we asked for "enough details for the case to be debated and it must not be a video." So far that is attempts 4, real examples 0.
 
I take issue with this utterly sticking, bloated and rotten red herring argument being used to somehow imagine that the current system in dealing with those who dont have health insurance is viable or practical in any way for anyone involved.
Sure, if I didnt have government provided health care(that I am overall quite satisfied with) and was uninsured, and lets say I cut my hand pretty bad an need a couple stiches.
I go to the ER, and it will cost at minimum $300 a single stich! Plus take literally hours waiting for treatment, in an environment where there are dozens of other people who in most cases have some sort of contangious condition that on top of needing to get my hand sen up will likely get me sick.

Then the bill comes, and for 5 stiches just that visit alone is $1500. That does not include any perscriptions or follow on visits, such as getting the sutures taken out. Or dressing or anything.

Heaven forbid you break a bone. Someone without insurance is going to recieve a bill likely in the $10,000 range.

Of course sure anyone could buy health insurance right? Lets just assume they didnt have a great deal through thier employers, or thier employer didnt offer, or there was no employer contribution. Not everyone can afford the $4-500 a month it costs in premiums alone to provide coverage for thier family. Throw in a deductible and it handcuffs a large chunk of money every paycheck for millions of families.
 
I take issue with this utterly sticking, bloated and rotten red herring argument being used to somehow imagine that the current system in dealing with those who dont have health insurance is viable or practical in any way for anyone involved.
Sure, if I didnt have government provided health care(that I am overall quite satisfied with) and was uninsured, and lets say I cut my hand pretty bad an need a couple stiches.
I go to the ER, and it will cost at minimum $300 a single stich! Plus take literally hours waiting for treatment, in an environment where there are dozens of other people who in most cases have some sort of contangious condition that on top of needing to get my hand sen up will likely get me sick.

Then the bill comes, and for 5 stiches just that visit alone is $1500. That does not include any perscriptions or follow on visits, such as getting the sutures taken out. Or dressing or anything.

Heaven forbid you break a bone. Someone without insurance is going to recieve a bill likely in the $10,000 range.

Of course sure anyone could buy health insurance right? Lets just assume they didnt have a great deal through thier employers, or thier employer didnt offer, or there was no employer contribution. Not everyone can afford the $4-500 a month it costs in premiums alone to provide coverage for thier family. Throw in a deductible and it handcuffs a large chunk of money every paycheck for millions of families.


So because of this you think its good to have government run health care? I am assuming you are advocating for that?

I see all the reasons you named as GREAT reasons to reform our current system. Stop loop holes, set limits exc. But it doesnt seem to me like a good reason to yet again tax the better off people to pay for the poor guy who cut his hand or broke his leg.
 
So because of this you think its good to have government run health care? I am assuming you are advocating for that?
I would find it preferable to the current system we have for most Americans who are uninsured or just as bad if not worse, the underinsured. Meaning the folks that cant really afford the current system they have. And are basically one serious medical condition from financial ruin.
I see all the reasons you named as GREAT reasons to reform our current system. Stop loop holes, set limits exc. But it doesnt seem to me like a good reason to yet again tax the better off people to pay for the poor guy who cut his hand or broke his leg.
They, and everyone ends up paying for it, just like would otherwise happen with an insurance program.
What many on the right seem utterly blind to is the notion that a public option ultimately saves costs for those who taxes would likely raise.
If one were to take into account the costs associated to provide medical insurance to employees by private businesses, it is considerable. Imagine what people and companies could do with the money that is saved by the private employers.

Also if the righties could see through thier own BS and look towards places where universal single payer health care if offered, is that it can be done. It can be quality. It can be economincal. Aslo before anyone wants to start talking about any number of horror stories about the systems in Canada, the UK or any other developed country, the situations faced by uninsured and otherwise insured Americans is much worse off.
 
I would find it preferable to the current system we have for most Americans who are uninsured or just as bad if not worse, the underinsured. Meaning the folks that cant really afford the current system they have. And are basically one serious medical condition from financial ruin.

They, and everyone ends up paying for it, just like would otherwise happen with an insurance program.
What many on the right seem utterly blind to is the notion that a public option ultimately saves costs for those who taxes would likely raise.
If one were to take into account the costs associated to provide medical insurance to employees by private businesses, it is considerable. Imagine what people and companies could do with the money that is saved by the private employers.

Also if the righties could see through thier own BS and look towards places where universal single payer health care if offered, is that it can be done. It can be quality. It can be economincal. Aslo before anyone wants to start talking about any number of horror stories about the systems in Canada, the UK or any other developed country, the situations faced by uninsured and otherwise insured Americans is much worse off.

obama claims it wont cost us regular folks. he will cut waste in other government programs and the rest is paid by the rich. its for the most part the rich who is paying for those other programs that is full of waste that obama says he will cut.

I hope I am never the kind of person who expects others to pay for me and mine. it just seems very wrong to me. I would be ashamed of myself if I held that attitude.

but some kind of health care will pass I am sure and we will soak the better off again, and all the people who feel others owe them should be happy.. but they wont. they will find something else they think others owe them and we will have a new thing to fight about.

its sad :(
 
Please give us just one example of a person who has no access to health care out of the 47 million people used as an excuse to turn our country into a socialism. You must give enough details for the case to be debated and it must not be a video.

This should be easy!

I have shared details of my Fathers own recent fiasco when it comes to dealing with private health insurance.

Then I could give you plenty of people who I know who should have gone to the hospital or clinic or otherwise sought treatment but didnt knowing they couldnt afford it.
 
Please give us just one example of a person who has no access to health care out of the 47 million people used as an excuse to turn our country into a socialism. You must give enough details for the case to be debated and it must not be a video.

This should be easy!

Ok...So what's your idea since you want everyone else to come up with one. What do you think should be done with health care? I mean it's like you say it should be easy. Just make sure when your giving us your answer you leave out Tax credit's, Tax incentives, Tax Breaks for Insurance company's and individuals as well as families...so with that Its like you said it should be easy?
 
obama claims it wont cost us regular folks. he will cut waste in other government programs and the rest is paid by the rich. its for the most part the rich who is paying for those other programs that is full of waste that obama says he will cut.
That isnt in any plan right now in front of Congress.
I hope I am never the kind of person who expects others to pay for me and mine. it just seems very wrong to me. I would be ashamed of myself if I held that attitude.
Well the rich are also paying for the roads you drive on. The military you seem fond of, and everything else.
but some kind of health care will pass I am sure and we will soak the better off again, and all the people who feel others owe them should be happy.. but they wont. they will find something else they think others owe them and we will have a new thing to fight about.

its sad :(
See at this point, any bills will be watered down so far that it will not make any signifigant impact and probably be an ultimate failure. Which will still leave those most needing affordable health care going without. Or a system that is not affordable.

I would highly encourage you to look at the Australian system of medicare as a prime example of how private and public insurance work together. But the righties seem to only want to focus on something that is a single example in a huge system.

For the record, I also know a Canadian couple who own and operate a business in Alaska. They have lived primarily in America for quite a long time. They could easily gain citizenship, but they dont want to give up thier Canadian health care.
 
Werbung:
and guess who would pay for it? Taxpayers! So if I am going to die, and its a big spendy bill you can pay for it...when I was very sick, and not able to work, and all I needed was some anti biotics to fix it...I was not able to get any...I sat at home, not working , thus lossing money I could not afford to not be at work making...Had I had them, I could have been back to work in like 2 days...but nope ended up sick for more like 2 weeks. I was actuly going to resort to getting meds from a freind that had left overs...while very unsafe, it was getting to be my only option...So yes I had the black market to fall back on, how great.

There is no Choice to just get it free you ***** if you could just get it all free, why the Hell do you pay for insurance? lets just all not have insurance, and just show up saying Im sick fix me, and pretend no one realy pays for it.

If you can get health care free from the government, then why would you pay for it?

Well of course the answer is you wouldn't. So if we have gov-care we won't need to pay for it, and no one will. Sounds great.

Record numbers of Londoners are abandoning the NHS and travelling abroad for medical treatment.

About 22,000 people in the capital went overseas for surgery and dental treatment last year - a rise of nearly a quarter on 2006.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...ug+fear+drives+NHS+patients+abroad/article.do

Huh.... a record number, 22,000 patients, fled London, the Capital of the UK, to get health care out of their country.... for a price. And that 22,000 patients is ONLY counting the ones that fled London.

More than 100,000 fled the UK in 2007.

Now why would a hundred thousand people with free gov-care, completely free at their local hospital, in a first world country, choose to buy, to pay money for health care in another country?

Let's think that through. Why would that many fly out of the country? Bad enough to pay for service inside your country when it's free, but to actually fly out of the country to get health care? That's nuts! It's free! Why would you fly out of the country to pay for something you get free down the street?!??!

BECAUSE GOV CARE SUCKS !!!

This isn't that hard. Gov-care doesn't work. It's awful, and people only want it, until they have it, and then they complain or fly to another country to get better care.

Even in the countries where they are flying to, it's not the gov-care hospitals they are going to. It's the private fee-for-service capitalist hospitals they end up at. In Singapore, more than 80% of the medical tourism the country enjoys, is all at private hospitals, not the government owned public hospitals.

Gov-care sucks. It's true in Canada, the UK, France, Cuba and everywhere, and it's even true inside America. VA hospitals are awful. Government run hospitals are always bad.
 
Back
Top