One out of 47 million

[pocketfullofshells]

I got like maybe 1/4 threw that post before I could not care anymore...

who the hell said anything about FREE? I want a health care plan thats AFFORDABLE and Portable and not run by some big buisness waiting for a reason to deny me coverage as soon as I need it.No one is talking about Free health care for all are they? No. so whats the point of even wasting time with you?

 

[Pandora]

That isnt in any plan right now in front of Congress.

Well the rich are also paying for the roads you drive on. The military you seem fond of, and everything else.

See at this point, any bills will be watered down so far that it will not make any signifigant impact and probably be an ultimate failure. Which will still leave those most needing affordable health care going without. Or a system that is not affordable.

I would highly encourage you to look at the Australian system of medicare as a prime example of how private and public insurance work together. But the righties seem to only want to focus on something that is a single example in a huge system.

For the record, I also know a Canadian couple who own and operate a business in Alaska. They have lived primarily in America for quite a long time. They could easily gain citizenship, but they dont want to give up thier Canadian health care.

I agree the rich are paying for those things and I think we should all be paying for them. Everyone from the poorest to the most wealthy should pay the same.

I have not looked at the Aussie way, I will do that. I never thought to check it out since I dont like so many other things about Aussie land, like no guns, forced voting exc. But I will check it out.

I also know a Canadidan family who live here and keep canadian citizenship for the same reason, its a better deal when you are living here but can go there when your turn comes up on the waiting list for knee surgery. You wont be like the people IN canada paying through the nose in taxes for it.

I also have another friend who lives in canada and is happy with the health care. Anything really important she can come back to the states to get done but basic needs are met in canada and she is fine with that.

In the end I dont care what they do with health care and I probably wont till I actually need it and I hope I die before I need it

but for those who need it and use it often, it seems to me they would rather carefully get a really good bill passed than just shove through a bill full of problems.

And I wished we still lived in a country where people did not think others owed them and others should pay for them and their needs.

I will never understand some people

 

[top gun]

Please give us just one example of a person who has no access to health care out of the 47 million people used as an excuse to turn our country into a socialism. You must give enough details for the case to be debated and it must not be a video.

This should be easy!

Well does the very fact you framed the question in a way that it does not address any problem count... because it should.

The fact that everyone when they are "spent out destitute" get free indigent care emergency room treatment or Medicaid... is not a solution or betterment of anything.

The fact that Americans (FAMILIES) by the thousands... probably tens of thousand every single day loose their home & everything else to bankruptcy only because of medical bills due to no insurance or co-pays or deductibles is once again the problem NOT THE SOLUTION!

So to point out that the current system must be changed and why "is easy".

But to stroll around in a false premise that because everyone EVENTUALLY gets some care anyway, well that may be comforting to those that like the above mentioned tragadies... but it's not the current debate on how to make things better.

 

[Bunz]

If you can get health care free from the government, then why would you pay for it?

Well of course the answer is you wouldn't. So if we have gov-care we won't need to pay for it, and no one will. Sounds great.

As PFOS mentions, who said anything was free? We would be paying for it through our income tax and there would likely be additional costs associated on top of that as some sort of "premium" as well as a "deductible" or user fee. Nobody is saying anyone is getting anything for free.

Huh.... a record number, 22,000 patients, fled London, the Capital of the UK, to get health care out of their country.... for a price. And that 22,000 patients is ONLY counting the ones that fled London.

Ah the ole worn out argument that people with national health care seek treatment elsewhere because thiers is so bad. So, 22,000 people in a city of 7.5million. Most of them leaving to Hugary, Bolivia, and other eastern bloc countries to get elective procedures for cheaper. Often times adding into it a vacation on either end of it.
Exactly like the tens of thousands of Americans who also travel to other countries to seek medical treatment. Including Canada! And developing countries like Mexico, Thailand, and even India! Your revelation that %0.2
of Londonders go elsewhere largely for breast implants, invetro, and dental work is moot.

Gov-care sucks. It's true in Canada, the UK, France, Cuba and everywhere, and it's even true inside America. VA hospitals are awful. Government run hospitals are always bad.

I am overall quite happy with the quality of the care, facilities, and dealings I have with my government health care.

 

[Bunz]

I agree the rich are paying for those things and I think we should all be paying for them. Everyone from the poorest to the most wealthy should pay the same.

Everyone who pays taxes pays in. Just the same as we all pay for roads and bullets.

I have not looked at the Aussie way, I will do that. I never thought to check it out since I dont like so many other things about Aussie land, like no guns, forced voting exc. But I will check it out.

Have you ever been there? I always get a kick out of the folks who seem to form some sort of judgement on an entire country, because of a handful of things that they percieve about a place that overshadows everything else.
But I am not surprised you hadnt heard much about the Australian system, because it is generally successful, and that doesnt fit into the agenda and talking points that the righties seem to endlessly scream about despite being shown otherwise as I explained to Andy in an above post.

As for requisite voting and guns, firstly, they dont have a 2nd amendment. But the situation in being able to aquire guns or participate in shooting/hunting activities is far overblown. In my travels down there I managed to do quite a bit of hunting.
Then to touch briefly on compulsory voting...I dont see how it really is a bad thing to actually have a majority of people participate and to more likely take the time to know the issues and individuals involved. I know the GOP has a history of discouraging some people from voting, but it has done quite well for Australia.
The long standing compulsory voting in Australia avoided what could have been a potentially violent situation back in 2000 during the Constitutional referendum on whether to keep the Queen as Head of State.

but for those who need it and use it often, it seems to me they would rather carefully get a really good bill passed than just shove through a bill full of problems.

Well as I said earlier, nothing is being shoved down anyone's throat. This legislative debate has been coming for years, and should not come as a surprise to anyone.

And I wished we still lived in a country where people did not think others owed them and others should pay for them and their needs.

I will never understand some people

I think you are describing a very small portion of people, at the expense of the vast majority. Except I believe I am also in the majority of people who see the utter hypocrisy in being gung ho for military conflict, but have an absolute mental meltdown when it comes to having thier tax dollars go to ensure that all Americans can afford to see a doctor.

You do realize the potential financial and health dangers we face by not ensuring everyone can afford a doc...dont you?

 

[top gun]

As PFOS mentions, who said anything was free? We would be paying for it through our income tax and there would likely be additional costs associated on top of that as some sort of "premium" as well as a "deductible" or user fee. Nobody is saying anyone is getting anything for free.

Ah the ole worn out argument that people with national health care seek treatment elsewhere because thiers is so bad. So, 22,000 people in a city of 7.5million. Most of them leaving to Hugary, Bolivia, and other eastern bloc countries to get elective procedures for cheaper. Often times adding into it a vacation on either end of it.
Exactly like the tens of thousands of Americans who also travel to other countries to seek medical treatment. Including Canada! And developing countries like Mexico, Thailand, and even India! Your revelation that %0.2
of Londonders go elsewhere largely for breast implants, invetro, and dental work is moot.

I am overall quite happy with the quality of the care, facilities, and dealings I have with my government health care.

Excellent break down my friend.

I've pointed out from personal family experiance that my father-in-law goes across the border of Texas into Mexico to get all of his major dental work done and my friends in Yellow Knife and Toronto Canada love their healthcare coverage... the older couple won't even come into America without buying a special health insurance rider... and when I told them that when people here lose their jobs and lose their insurance and become majorly ill or injured they can't just get on Medicade but instead they must first lose everything they have to doctor & hospital bills...

THEY LOOK AT ME LIKE I'M TELLING THEM SOME HALLOWEEN MURDER STORY!

But with the Right it's like the old Charlie Brown cartoon saying... If you can't be right be wrong very very loud!

Here's a typical answer on the subject by a Canadian.

Top Answer
by Sookie posted Aug. 22

Thank you for posting this, Connor. I am Canadian and very happy with my healthcare. I feel like a broken record going from poll to poll with this. Suffice it to say that the majority of Canadians are in fact very happy with the healthcare we receive.

Here is a link to the national health survey conducted by stats Canada for 2008 (released Dec. 2008).

2009 results will be released in Dec. I ask anyone who chooses to look at these results to look at them carefully and objectively (pay close attention to the wording and to the numbers) and do the math.

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb...

 

[Aus22]

The example of a few rich people leaving a government health scheme in Britain does not prove that government schemes do not work for the majority. Almost every country except the USA has a government health care scheme. People from the USA go to Canada and Mexico for free or cheap medicines.

 

[Dr.Who]

I take issue with this utterly sticking, bloated and rotten red herring argument being used to somehow imagine that the current system in dealing with those who dont have health insurance is viable or practical in any way for anyone involved.

The red herring is the argument that there are millions of people without health care. We are waiting to hear about just one person and so far - none.

In proving that no one can come up with an example of ANYone who does not have care we will not prove that the present system is perfect. Just that it does not need to be changed based on the reasoning that there are tons of people with no care. It does need to be changed for other reasons.

Sure, if I didnt have government provided health care(that I am overall quite satisfied with) and was uninsured, and lets say I cut my hand pretty bad an need a couple stiches.
I go to the ER, and it will cost at minimum $300 a single stich! Plus take literally hours waiting for treatment, in an environment where there are dozens of other people who in most cases have some sort of contangious condition that on top of needing to get my hand sen up will likely get me sick.

13 days ago I cut my wrist on a pane of glass. I went to the ER and was out in less than two hours with ten stitches. I have not caught any contageous disease as far as I know. It cost me $50 plus my premiums.

Then the bill comes, and for 5 stiches just that visit alone is $1500. That does not include any perscriptions or follow on visits, such as getting the sutures taken out. Or dressing or anything.

It cost me $50 plus my premiums. Of course those premiums paid for a lot of other stuff too. I had no prescriptions, no follow ups, and they will take out the stitches tomorrow as a part of the original visit for no extra charge. I did have to buy some gauze to cover it for the first few days. That cost me about $10. In fact the most expensive unexpected part of the whole affair is that I decided to take a taxi home rather than wait for my wife to pick me up. Oh, I also couldn't cook dinner that night so I picked up food from McDonalds.

Heaven forbid you break a bone. Someone without insurance is going to recieve a bill likely in the $10,000 range.

LOL.

Of course sure anyone could buy health insurance right? Lets just assume they didnt have a great deal through thier employers, or thier employer didnt offer, or there was no employer contribution. Not everyone can afford the $4-500 a month it costs in premiums alone to provide coverage for thier family. Throw in a deductible and it handcuffs a large chunk of money every paycheck for millions of families.

A catastrophic policy is the best one in this case and it costs very little. I don't know the present costs but about 15 years ago I had one and it cost about $150/yr.

If you wanna know the cost fill out this and let us know.

http://www.catastrophic-health-insurance.org/costs-of-catastrophic-health.php

 

[Dr.Who]

Do you even know what your talking about or are you just hitting random keys?

I know exactly what I was saying. So answer the question.

If a person has health care why do they need health insurance?

 

[Dr.Who]

I have shared details of my Fathers own recent fiasco when it comes to dealing with private health insurance.

I will be happy to stipulate that your father had problems with a private insurer.

But he is not an example of a person without health care. so it is irrelevant to the questions of the thread.

Then I could give you plenty of people who I know who should have gone to the hospital or clinic or otherwise sought treatment but didnt knowing they couldnt afford it.

If the reason they did not go was because of a choice they made then it too is not very applicable.

But feel free to show us one who wanted care but could not get it.

Since you did not attempt to show us a person who does not have access to health care we won't count this sidestep against you.

 

[Dr.Who]

Ok...So what's your idea since you want everyone else to come up with one. What do you think should be done with health care? I mean it's like you say it should be easy. Just make sure when your giving us your answer you leave out Tax credit's, Tax incentives, Tax Breaks for Insurance company's and individuals as well as families...so with that Its like you said it should be easy?

This thread is looking for that 1 out of 47 million.

Start a new thread, PM me, and I will respond on that thread.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I know exactly what I was saying. So answer the question.

If a person has health care why do they need health insurance?

is there a trick question in there? or do you realy not know how dumb that question sounds?

 

[Pidgey]

The last two times that I've gotten cut at home bad enough to require stitches, I just took care of them myself. The first was back three inches from the wrist and would have taken about seven sutures: that one I did with superglue (only on the dry outer skin-to-skin, sorta' puckered inward) and the second time was on my chin and I sutured that one up with real sutures (only two, Prolene 4-0, with a 3/8"ths reverse cutting needle if memory serves) and real surgical instruments. Both healed uneventfully and left minimal scarring. No antibiotics self-prescribed or taken. There's just not a lot of reason to jam up the works for crap that's that piddly.

 

[Dr.Who]

Well does the very fact you framed the question in a way that it does not address any problem count... because it should.

The fact that everyone when they are "spent out destitute" get free indigent care emergency room treatment or Medicaid... is not a solution or betterment of anything.

The fact that Americans (FAMILIES) by the thousands... probably tens of thousand every single day loose their home & everything else to bankruptcy only because of medical bills due to no insurance or co-pays or deductibles is once again the problem NOT THE SOLUTION!

So to point out that the current system must be changed and why "is easy".

But to stroll around in a false premise that because everyone EVENTUALLY gets some care anyway, well that may be comforting to those that like the above mentioned tragadies... but it's not the current debate on how to make things better.

Do you want to offer people health care or insurance against losing their homes? We need to keep separate issues separate. If you want to offer the latter then there are insurance policies for that too. Should gov pay for those?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The last two times that I've gotten cut at home bad enough to require stitches, I just took care of them myself. The first was back three inches from the wrist and would have taken about seven sutures: that one I did with superglue (only on the dry outer skin-to-skin, sorta' puckered inward) and the second time was on my chin and I sutured that one up with real sutures (only two, Prolene 4-0, with a 3/8"ths reverse cutting needle if memory serves) and real surgical instruments. Both healed uneventfully and left minimal scarring. No antibiotics self-prescribed or taken. There's just not a lot of reason to jam up the works for crap that's that piddly.

my freind just found out he may need his appendix out, he has no insurace as lost his job and just got a new one but no money for insurance and is not covered under there insurance yet....I dont think he will be taking his own out himself. So he just has to wait for it to burst and force a ER trip in a Emergancy and guess who is going to pay for it, at higher costs.....tax payers...that or he just dies I guess....