Pakistan to defend borders against US military incursions

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Pakistan's leaders have pledged to defend their national territory if America launches further cross-border attacks.

By Isambard Wilkinson in Islamabad
Last Updated: 11:18PM BST 11 Sep 2008

They expressed fears of a popular uprising in the lawless Tribal Areas on the north-west frontier with Afghanistan if the US continues its new aggressive policy. Admiral Michael Mullen, the US chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said earlier this week that he had commissioned "a new, more comprehensive military strategy for the region that covers both sides of that border".

His statement followed an unprecedented US helicopter-borne commando assault on a village inside Pakistani territory last week in which 20 people were killed, including women and children.

General Ashfaq Kiyani, Pakistan's army chief, criticised the raid. "The sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country will be defended at all cost," he said, adding that there was no "agreement or understanding with the coalition forces whereby they are allowed to conduct operations on our side of the border".

Highlighting the killing of civilians in the tribal region of South Waziristan, he said that such "reckless actions only help the militants and further fuel the militancy in the area".

Admiral Mullen claimed the lawless, tribal borderlands are a sanctuary for Taliban and al-Qaeda militants who pose a revived threat to allied forces. Outlining the need for a broader approach, he said: "Frankly, we're running out of time. I'm not convinced we're winning it in Afghanistan. I am convinced we can,"

The New York Times reported that President George W. Bush secretly approved orders in July enabling US special forces to conduct ground operations in Pakistan without Islamabad's prior approval.

This follows a tripling of missile strikes over the past year into Pakistan that have been attributed to the US.

President Bush underscored the new shift in strategy earlier this week when he said Pakistan and Afghanistan were all part of the same "theatre" of anti-terrorism operations. The apparent breakdown in relations between the two allies has occurred only two weeks after Gen Kiyani met Admiral Mullen aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier.

Yesterday, the prime minister Gordon Brown, said "the porousness of the border is a problem for both countries", adding that he would also discuss it with Asif Ali Zardari, Pakistan's new civilian president, who he said was scheduled to visit London "in the next few days".

Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, welcomed the new US focus on the border areas. He said: "We must go to places where there is training and hideout facilities [for terrorists] and destroy that."

What a clusterf*ck....who needs Osama Bin Laden as a force to rally behind!!?? :rolleyes:
 
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What a clusterf*ck....who needs Osama Bin Laden as a force to rally behind!!?? :rolleyes:

It does not matter, this statement is all for show. They are not going cross into Afghanistan to fight the US (maybe a few, but not the majority), and they are unable to stop tactical air strikes and special forces operations for the most part.

Meaningless comments by tribal leaders just to show they condemn the attacks, but not much else comes of this in my view
 
Rob I think the point is that these tactics are alienating a strategic ally!

Do you think it is DOD strategy to test the resolve of the new Prime Minister or even to undermine him?

"I am not convinced that we're winning it in Afghanistan," Adm. Michael Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the House Armed Services Committee yesterday. But, he added, "I'm convinced we can."

If this is the official assessment then having Pakistan lining up with the Taliban is frankly insane and I doubt that ISAF comanders are happy with this development!
 
God for them, way to stand up for your borders....now turn around and if you really want to fight the war on terror with us, do it, or shut up and we will do it for you. You can cry to look good for your people, but you let them hide out there, and we will kill them. suck it up Pakistan.

Love your liberal Hippie friend
Pocket.
 
Rob I think the point is that these tactics are alienating a strategic ally

The Pakistani government does not control these tribal regions... Outside of a brief flap in public opinion, I do not see it as alienating an ally. Pakistan is a good ally when they want to be, and a thorn in our side when they want to be. With Zardari in, I think losing a little popular support is fine, as long as the government on a whole maintains its mostly pro-American stance.

Do you think it is DOD strategy to test the resolve of the new Prime Minister or even to undermine him?

If this is the official assessment then having Pakistan lining up with the Taliban is frankly insane and I doubt that ISAF comanders are happy with this development!

I do not think it is DOD strategy to test or undermine the new PM. I think they are banking that he can maintain his power even with these operations being run.

I disagree that this will cause Pakistan to "line up with the Taliban" as well. This area of Pakistan is not really controlled by the government and they line up with whoever they please. It is not their public opinion that will make or break Zardari in my view.

I think it is a gamble on the part of the US, but one that is well-timed. With Musarreff out, Iraq going much better, and the domestic Pakistani situation a bit different from a few years ago, I think now is the time to gamble and if you find an extremist in Pakistan, he should be taken out. Now if this upsets the balance to far within the rest of Pakistan, which I think it would have under Musarreff and previous conditions, I think the policy needs to be reevaluated should this be the case.
 
Apparently there are rumours circulating through the Northern Army Corps in Pakistan that orders are going to be issued to attack US forces and Aircraft operating over border operations into Pakistan from Afghanistan - these are apparently coming out of the Military Comanders Conference taking place at the moment.

If true I'll try and post the link. Its interesting though as if these rumours are true then the civil authorities may be losing control of the military.
 
Apparently there are rumours circulating through the Northern Army Corps in Pakistan that orders are going to be issued to attack US forces and Aircraft operating over border operations into Pakistan from Afghanistan - these are apparently coming out of the Military Comanders Conference taking place at the moment.

If true I'll try and post the link. Its interesting though as if these rumours are true then the civil authorities may be losing control of the military.

That is just it though, we do not have to fly a plane into the area to actually carry out an airstrike. Also, the special forces that operate in the area are trained not to get caught. I would still assume that this really does not mean much, other than the new PM perhaps making a political show for his domestic constituency...
 
God for them, way to stand up for your borders....now turn around and if you really want to fight the war on terror with us, do it, or shut up and we will do it for you. You can cry to look good for your people, but you let them hide out there, and we will kill them. suck it up Pakistan.
Very well said... :)
Love your liberal Hippie friend
Pocket.
roflcopter.gif
 
now turn around and if you really want to fight the war on terror with us, do it, or shut up and we will do it for you. You can cry to look good for your people, but you let them hide out there, and we will kill them. suck it up Pakistan.

That's pretty much what the moderate commanders in the PakDef are trying to do, however, they have a very hard time convincing the more hardliners not only in Government but also within the ISI and the Military that joint operations with the US are the best route IF the US is carrying out operations in Pakistan. Would you feel comfortable with Mexican troops launching raids into the US in search of drug smugglers, killing a few schmucks that got in the way and them turning round and saying "....well homs eeez tough sheeeet on them Hah hah!"

I think not! :D

In general terms though I agree with your sentiments. It is the ability to maintain the momentum of popular support at home that will encourage the fight against the Taliban in both Afghanistan and in Pakistan. ISAF forces are kicking ass as they say, but the Taliban are very good insurgency fighters and as long as the constant drip of flag draped coffins does not unnerve the people then within about 5-10 years the job should be done?

The job would be easier though if allies remained allies!
 
That's pretty much what the moderate commanders in the PakDef are trying to do, however, they have a very hard time convincing the more hardliners not only in Government but also within the ISI and the Military that joint operations with the US are the best route IF the US is carrying out operations in Pakistan. Would you feel comfortable with Mexican troops launching raids into the US in search of drug smugglers, killing a few schmucks that got in the way and them turning round and saying "....well homs eeez tough sheeeet on them Hah hah!"

I think not! :D

In general terms though I agree with your sentiments. It is the ability to maintain the momentum of popular support at home that will encourage the fight against the Taliban in both Afghanistan and in Pakistan. ISAF forces are kicking ass as they say, but the Taliban are very good insurgency fighters and as long as the constant drip of flag draped coffins does not unnerve the people then within about 5-10 years the job should be done?

The job would be easier though if allies remained allies!

Ally who does not help you is not worth much though.
 
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Soldiers Have Orders to Fire on U.S. Troops If Incursions Continue

........my sources are quicker than the WSJ!! :cool:

Pakistan Issues Threat Over Raids

Soldiers Have Orders to Fire on U.S. Troops If Incursions Continue

ISLAMABAD -- On the eve of a meeting with the top U.S. military commander, Pakistan upped the ante in the standoff over U.S. troop incursions, saying its soldiers had orders to fire on American troops if they entered from Afghanistan on raids.

U.S. military officials including Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, are scheduled to meet Pakistan's top brass Wednesday in an effort to defuse tension between the two allies that has flared after a cross-border raid by U.S. Special Operations forces and an increase in drone-launched missile strikes against suspected militant sanctuaries inside Pakistan.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122157191948543051.html
 
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