Palin to pray away gays!

If you read that great work, the God Delusion, you will see that prayer was put to the test in an experiment in the US.

A church was asked to pray for a group who were to have heart surgery and the prayer was that they should recover quickly.

One group of patients was being prayed for and knew it.
One group was being prayed for but didn't know it and one group was not prayed for at all.

The results were that the group who recovered the slowest and with most complications was the group prayed for with knowledge of the prayer.
The next worst results were for the group that was being prayed for but didn't know it.
The group that fared the best was the one that wasn't prayed for all.

Prayer is ridiculous.

Why doesn't Palin pray for all the oil and gas in Iraq and Afghanistan to just re-appear in the US rather than having to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people to get it?

Oh and BTW as god made everything he must have made homosexuality too so why would the church seek to change what is clearly god's will?

Funny, isn't it, the ones who bang on the most vehemently against gays are usually struggling with their own sexuality and protesting too much.
 
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Dawkinsrocks said:
If you read that great work, the God Delusion, you will see that prayer was put to the test in an experiment in the US.

A church was asked to pray for a group who were to have heart surgery and the prayer was that they should recover quickly.

One group of patients was being prayed for and knew it.
One group was being prayed for but didn't know it and one group was not prayed for at all.

The results were that the group who recovered the slowest and with most complications was the group prayed for with knowledge of the prayer.
The next worst results were for the group that was being prayed for but didn't know it.
The group that fared the best was the one that wasn't prayed for all.

Prayer is ridiculous.

Why doesn't Palin pray for all the oil and gas in Iraq and Afghanistan to just re-appear in the US rather than having to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people to get it?

Oh and BTW as god made everything he must have made homosexuality too so why would the church seek to change what is clearly god's will?

Funny, isn't it, the ones who bang on the most vehemently against gays are usually struggling with their own sexuality and protesting too much.
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OK, I'm doing your homework for you this time, just out of curiosity. Don't get used to it.

You're the one, after all, who brought up the "God Delusion", and so, it would be up to you to give a link or two.

Here is one reference to the prayer experiment you mention:

NEW YORK (AP)—In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

Researchers emphasized that their work can't address whether God exists or answers prayers made on another's behalf. The study can only look for an effect from prayers offered as part of the research, they said.

They also said they had no explanation for the higher complication rate in patients who knew they were being prayed for, in comparison to patients who only knew it was possible prayers were being said for them.

Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be explored by scientific study.
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(emphasis added)

I also found this:

In The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in a personal god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence.
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Starting out to prove a point is not scientific. The scientific method sets up experiments to determine whether a given hypothesis is correct or not, not to prove that it is correct.

And, I found this critique of that "great work":

Richard Dawkins' second chapter is a rambling 43-page rant against theism. Instead of writing a real introduction about "the God hypothesis," Dawkins immediately launches into a long list of the supposed faults of Yahweh, including, "jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." And all that is just part of the first sentence! Of course, there are no attempts to substantiate any of the claims by giving examples. In fact, atheists love to point out examples where God judges those who do evil (as if we humans would never stoop so low to do such things by making laws, having police, judges and jails). How dare God judge evil! Dawkins won't tell you that the reason why God told the Israelites to wipe out entire populations was because they were burning their own children as sacrifices.1 Maybe Dawkins would have preferred that we still have those people around so that he could offer his own daughter as a burnt offering.
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OK, your turn to do some online research, or simply to continue to post your own unsupported opinions. Your choice.
 
I think that Dawkins quote is a good place to start.

"In The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in a personal god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence."

First let's say that he is smart enough to say that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist. If he had said that one absolutely did not exist then he would be making a statement of faith i.e. based on no empirical evidence.

Then says there is evidence that contradicts the belief in a supernatural creator. But no such evidence exists.

Then he says that believers are delusional. Meaning that they have a false belief. So now that he has said they have a false belief he has strengthened his previous statement that God almost certainly does not exist so that he is now saying that God does not exist. But since no such evidence against the existence of God has ever been presented that makes him delusional. Well it doesn't really - it just means that he is making a statement that is stronger than the existing evidence supports.
 
The hypocrisy and bigotry of some really beggars belief.

I wonder, do you also pray for bankers, or those millions of people who eat rare meat and shellfish?

Pathetic!
 
Religion is NOT the reason why you feel you have to pray for gays.

Bigots use religion as an excuse.
 
The gay community has often said "no one would choose this lifestyle so it must be genetic." In other words it is a lifestyle full of pain and suffering. Albeit some of it at the hands of bigots.

But I see nothing wrong with praying for people who are experiencing pain and suffering.

If some of you can show that the church in question is acting like bigots then please show us. If not the purpose of prayer is usually to ask God to help people so in the absence of any evidence to the contrary that is probably what is happening.
 
vyo476 said:
Well, if you're not a homosexual and don't particularly care about them, I suppose it's a pretty easy choice.
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And if you are... you are going to church of hate America over a church that wants to pray for you? How can a church wanting to pray for you be worse than a church that advocates the destruction of the country?
 
I'm not a member but, I couldn't think of another group of people that could use prayer more than the homosexuals.....they are so confused. God help them.
 
Dr.Who said:
The gay community has often said "no one would choose this lifestyle so it must be genetic." In other words it is a lifestyle full of pain and suffering. Albeit some of it at the hands of bigots.

But I see nothing wrong with praying for people who are experiencing pain and suffering. .

If some of you can show that the church in question is acting like bigots then please show us. If not the purpose of prayer is usually to ask God to help people so in the absence of any evidence to the contrary that is probably what is happening.
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Why do you automatically assume that all gays are in pain and need praying for? You think this because you base your whole misconception on 'how you would feel' in their situation (being gay)and possibly a by the experiences of a few other people who you know personally. The only pain and suffering they feel is caused by nonacceptance by people like yourself, who, because you judge them solely by the writings of the bible, that you follow, insist that they are an abomination.

That aside, the sheer audacity of people like yourself, to firstly judge gays and then pray for any pain and suffering they may experience, which is for the most part solely down to the nonacceptance of such people in the first place is laughable in a very dark sense.

This nonacceptance by many organised religions and people like yourself as a part of said religions , is totally and amazingly beyond utter contempt, when one considers that you firstly judge, condemn and demonise them, alienating them in the first place, then you bloody pray for them, they would not need praying for, but for you and people like you.

The pomposity here is unbelievable. Did it ever occur to you that if God is omnipotent, then he deliberately created certain people with the capacity to be different than the so called norm (in which I think we all fall into said category, one way or another)

Before you or anyone else comes back with the old adage, well God is testing 'them', did it occur to you that God may just be testing you?

If you read the New Testament, why do you think Jesus/God's teachings were to not cast the first stone, to not judge , does this not tell you something?

Do you pray so ardently for every one of your fellow human beings who appear to be different than societies definition of the norm?

Who gave you the right to decide who to pray for and who not?

The bible states that to eat meat with blood in it is an abomination, to eat shellfish is an abomination, yet you do not feel the same need to pray for people who eat their meat rare, or go to shellfish restaurants do you?

YOU, decide who you think needs praying for, pure and simple.

It is your own bigotry that decides you must pray for the poor gay people who are in so much pain and are suffering so much.

What you are really saying is, that you wish all gays could change because YOU don't like them, the way they behave, or the fact that they go against societies status quo, which upsets your equilibrium.

That is why you pray for them. Your concern and actions are solely service to self, nothing more and nothing less.

YOU, find it disgusting and intolerable that a certain men and women seek sexual and emotional relationships with the same sex; that is why you pray for them.

At least have the guts to stand up and bloody well say so, instead of hiding behind wholly selective text in the bible, which suits your personal agenda.

Astounding hypocrisy!
 
Not Amused said:
Why do you automatically assume that all gays are in pain and need praying for? You think this because you base your whole misconception on 'how you would feel' in their situation (being gay)and possibly a by the experiences of a few other people who you know personally. The only pain and suffering they feel is caused by nonacceptance by people like yourself, who, because you judge them solely by the writings of the bible, that you follow, insist that they are an abomination. []....
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I don't believe they are all in pain and suffering. The gay lifestyle is different than being gay. I have known many gay people* and I probably have about the same misconceptions that many gay people themselves have, but not as much as you assume.

Yes some of them do experience pain as a result of nonacceptance...hmmm..where have I heard something like that before...Oh yea, I know I said that some of their pain was the result of bigots.

I did not mean to include every single gay person in my post. I was talking about the ones who were experiencing pain and suffering. Sorry for not being clear.

But you on the other hand did mean to talk about every gay when you said that the only pain they feel is the result of people like me. Which is just not true. I know gay people who feel pain because they cannot have biological children with their life partner - just like I know straight infertile couples who feel the same pain.

And you are the one who lumps all "people like me" into some box that is grossly distorted. And that is much more likely to be bigoted than what I am saying.

I have not checked but I would be willing to bet that the conference that the church in the OP put a flier for in the bulletin is founded and operated by gay people. I would bet that gay people would understand this issue better than you. Wanna take that bet?


* Yes I have known many gay people. I used to work in a florist and yes the stereotype has truth. At least half the men who work in the floral industry are gay. And the gay lifestyle includes much more than being gay. It includes being a bear, or a twink, or a top or a bottom, or a queen or flaming or in the closet or out of the closet, or married to women and gay, or single and gay, it includes some committed relationships and it includes a lot of promiscuity and random even anonymous sex, it includes men who dress in drag and those who are professional football players, it includes fag hags, and the rocky horror picture show (gone there with my gay friends), and leather bars (gone there with my gay friends) it includes skyrocketed rates of AIDS and other STD's, it includes subtle discrimination and outright bigotry and it even includes public acceptance by democrats who secretly to the community more harm than good.
 
Dr.Who said:
I don't believe they are all in pain and suffering. The gay lifestyle is different than being gay. I have known many gay people* and I probably have about the same misconceptions that many gay people themselves have, but not as much as you assume.

Yes some of them do experience pain as a result of nonacceptance...hmmm..where have I heard something like that before...Oh yea, I know I said that some of their pain was the result of bigots.

I did not mean to include every single gay person in my post. I was talking about the ones who were experiencing pain and suffering. Sorry for not being clear.

But you on the other hand did mean to talk about every gay when you said that the only pain they feel is the result of people like me. Which is just not true. I know gay people who feel pain because they cannot have biological children with their life partner - just like I know straight infertile couples who feel the same pain.

And you are the one who lumps all "people like me" into some box that is grossly distorted. And that is much more likely to be bigoted than what I am saying.

I have not checked but I would be willing to bet that the conference that the church in the OP put a flier for in the bulletin is founded and operated by gay people. I would bet that gay people would understand this issue better than you. Wanna take that bet?


* Yes I have known many gay people. I used to work in a florist and yes the stereotype has truth. At least half the men who work in the floral industry are gay. And the gay lifestyle includes much more than being gay. It includes being a bear, or a twink, or a top or a bottom, or a queen or flaming or in the closet or out of the closet, or married to women and gay, or single and gay, it includes some committed relationships and it includes a lot of promiscuity and random even anonymous sex, it includes men who dress in drag and those who are professional football players, it includes fag hags, and the rocky horror picture show (gone there with my gay friends), and leather bars (gone there with my gay friends) it includes skyrocketed rates of AIDS and other STD's, it includes subtle discrimination and outright bigotry and it even includes public acceptance by democrats who secretly to the community more harm than good.
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Sorry, none of the above aimless drivel answers any of the questions I posed.

I want to just reiterate the most important point......again..... in the hope that you will open your closed mind a little.

hmmm..where have I heard something like that before...Oh yea, I know I said that some of their pain was the result of bigots
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You really do not understand the fact that most religions and their followers, using selective biblical text as a tool are responsible for the nonacceptance of homosexuals, hence you are also a bigot, how can you not be?

Your long diatribe regarding the types of homosexual, promiscuity, AID's etc.etc further compounds your bigotry; you are well aware that just about all of the 'sins' (for want of a better word) you listed are equally practiced by heterosexuals.

You really cannot see that if not for the deliberate use of selective text from the bible to judge, condemn and alienate them and it is also used often as a political tool, homosexuals would not face any emotional distress, or bloody pain.

The reason why you are a bigot is, that your support of religion enables said organised religions to take this particular biblical text and use it as an excuse to demonise them, these 'terrible, mixed up, confused, childless, sad homosexuals', then after you have done this, you feel the need to pray for them because they are terrible, mixed up, confused, childless, sad homosexuals.

You really, really do not see the hypocrisy, or the 'sin' in this do you?

I am truly flabbergasted and frustrated by the person blindness religion all too often causes.
 
I think people have the right to pray for any freaking thing they want to pray for and if other people don’t like what they pray for or who they pray for they can stick it right up their back sides.

I am so sick of this distorted crap


the moron obama sits in a racist church (unknowingly laughing my rear off) while his preacher screams goddamn America, US of KKK A, white people invented HIV to kill black people , blah blah blah and that was defended like there was no tomorrow


But oh my gosh Sarah Palin’s church prays for gay people... what a horrible monster.

I am firmly convinced liberals are truly retarded
 
Popeye said:
Oh, man....people like this are just plain weird.




http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Sep05/0,4670,PalinGays,00.html
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It's even a lot scarier than that!

Sarah Palin is a believer (was a member of the church) in speaking in tongues and that the rapture is coming soon but people in Alaska will survive! Also they pray to God for things like... a pipeline project.

I guess it's just not enough to be completely against about every woman's issue... we have to also deal with a completely crazed Evangelist!:eek:
 
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