Progressives: The Anti-Liberals

[PLC1]

Progressives parade around as though they are classical liberals, going so far as to use the definition for liberals against the definition for conservative to claim they are the tolerant, open minded ones and conservatives are the bigots. If Progressives didn't claim to be something they were not, which they do for obvious reasons, then I wouldn't bother trying to dispell the myth that the two are interchangable or even identicle in ideology and practice.

Are you a Liberal?

Are you a Conservative?

I've discussed this propaganda tactic before but I don't think it was here at the HOP. At any rate, I won't bore anyone with a lesson on propaganda but will simply point out that on the dictionary used for the word Liberal, says "American Heritage" while the conservative definition is inside a dictionary that just says "American".

Aside from that red flag for truth seekers, if you actually use the American Heritage dictionary and compare the definitions of the two words, you will find some of the highlighted words were cherry picked out of context or fabricated for the purpose of propaganda.

The two terms have so many different meanings to different people as to be meaningless until someone says, "And this is what I mean by..."

Terms like "conservative" and "liberal" bring forth a lot of fallacious reasoning of this type:

No car in town is faster than Joe's Corvette.
My Yugo is faster than no car in town.
Therefore, my Yugo is faster than Joe's Corvette.


The fallacy, of course, is in the shifting meaning of the phrase "no car in town." Similar syllogisms are used with both terms "conservative" and "liberal."

 

[GenSeneca]

The fallacy, of course, is in the shifting meaning of the phrase "no car in town." Similar syllogisms are used with both terms "conservative" and "liberal."

You and I understand this. The "swing voters" with attention spans not longer than those videos do not grasp such concepts and thus fall victim to obvious fallacies of logic.

Additionally, every logical fallacy of this nature is then reinforced by subsequent fallacious statements that come from all over the social spectrum: Teachers and Professors, Pop culture, the Media and of course politicians. The result is a pile of lies that butress one another and you need only the slightest injection of critical thinking to destroy one and watch the rest collapse.

Progressivism is built on a foundation of lies, wrapped in a riddle inside an inigma. I cannot force people to think critically about their chosen beliefs, I cannot force them to question the authority they currently don't bother questioning, they have to do that on their own. All I can do is make my case and hope some kernel of doubt blossoms in their mind and they begin to question those they trust with the same veracity and skepticism they heap on those they are told to distrust and outright ignore.

 

[GenSeneca]

Allow me to further explain what being Progressive is all about...

First, you must understand that "Progressive" serves also as a verb to describe the ideology. Its not a static ideology grounded in a set of principles such as Liberalism, Libertarianism or Conservatism but an unprincipled, untethered, free floating ideology without form or substance. This allows their positions and policies to shift as necessary without having to worry about violating their ideological foundations.... because there are none to violate.

A recent real world example:

Remember how outraged the Progressives pretended to be over the AIG bonuses? All of it was political posturing as proven by their complete indifference over the bonuses that went to the Democrat piggy banks of Fannie and Freddie... two Government Sponsored Entities who got more in bonus money, more in bailout money, and were more responsible for the economic collapse than the 80% government owned AIG firm.

With Progressives, polls serve as the rudder that steers the ship through a sea of victimized discontent. Shifting political winds fill the sails and the ship travels whichever direction seems favorable at the time. For the Progressive proletariat, no topic or choice is ever seen as black and white, everything is nuanced and ever evolving with complexities that require the careful examination of both named and unnamed experts as well as thoughtful consideration by the party elite... Once the experts and party elite release the official position on a given topic, then, and until reversed by political winds, that position is set in "stone" and comes complete with talking points that get regurgitated ad infinatum.

There are some positions that never change for progressives, such as their fawning love of, and swooning adoration for, left wing dictators and thugs. Che Guevara is a pop culture icon, his image can be seen on T-shirts, flags and college campi across the US. Hugo Chavez is seen as a compassionate leader just trying to do whats best for his people. Fidel Castro is, of course, doing the best he can despite the inflexible American foreign policy that has only served to punish the Cuban people.

 

[Pandora]

Allow me to further explain what being Progressive is all about...

First, you must understand that "Progressive" serves also as a verb to describe the ideology. Its not a static ideology grounded in a set of principles such as Liberalism, Libertarianism or Conservatism but an unprincipled, untethered, free floating ideology without form or substance. This allows their positions and policies to shift as necessary without having to worry about violating their ideological foundations.... because there are none to violate.

A recent real world example:

Remember how outraged the Progressives pretended to be over the AIG bonuses? All of it was political posturing as proven by their complete indifference over the bonuses that went to the Democrat piggy banks of Fannie and Freddie... two Government Sponsored Entities who got more in bonus money, more in bailout money, and were more responsible for the economic collapse than the 80% government owned AIG firm.

With Progressives, polls serve as the rudder that steers the ship through a sea of victimized discontent. Shifting political winds fill the sails and the ship travels whichever direction seems favorable at the time. For the Progressive proletariat, no topic or choice is ever seen as black and white, everything is nuanced and ever evolving with complexities that require the careful examination of both named and unnamed experts as well as thoughtful consideration by the party elite... Once the experts and party elite release the official position on a given topic, then, and until reversed by political winds, that position is set in "stone" and comes complete with talking points that get regurgitated ad infinatum.

There are some positions that never change for progressives, such as their fawning love of, and swooning adoration for, left wing dictators and thugs. Che Guevara is a pop culture icon, his image can be seen on T-shirts, flags and college campi across the US. Hugo Chavez is seen as a compassionate leader just trying to do whats best for his people. Fidel Castro is, of course, doing the best he can despite the inflexible American foreign policy that has only served to punish the Cuban people.

Funny picture

I am frustrated about your example with the AIG bonus. You are totally right but what is frustrating me, is the average person who is not far left lib or far right conservative, just middle of the road guys didn’t seem to care about the Fannie and Freddie bonus's but did care about the AIG when many of those AIG employees worked for pennies all year and the Fannie Freddie people got full pay at tax payer expense. Also congress gave bonuses to their underlings and no one said peep I think because no one was screaming so they didnt notice.

So that is what is so frustrating, I expect this from the far left leaning people but not from middle of the road people

 

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

Funny picture

I am frustrated about your example with the AIG bonus. You are totally right but what is frustrating me, is the average person who is not far left lib or far right conservative, just middle of the road guys didn’t seem to care about the Fannie and Freddie bonus's but did care about the AIG when many of those AIG employees worked for pennies all year and the Fannie Freddie people got full pay at tax payer expense. Also congress gave bonuses to their underlings and no one said peep I think because no one was screaming so they didnt notice.

So that is what is so frustrating, I expect this from the far left leaning people but not from middle of the road people

I think you hit the nail in the head by pointing out that no one was screaming over the bonuses recieved by Fannie and Freddie... I personally believe that the reason the AIG bonuses caused such an uproar was because they actually were given media attention beyond the ticker-tape scroll on the bottom of the screen. Unfortunately we just do have have a relentless media juggernaut to hold the governments feet under the fire about all incidents concerning the bail-outs and stimulus.

Maybe it would be even more accurate to simply say that no one media corp could possible challenge every single act done by our government and bring it to the publics attention

 

[Pandora]

I think you hit the nail in the head by pointing out that no one was screaming over the bonuses recieved by Fannie and Freddie... I personally believe that the reason the AIG bonuses caused such an uproar was because they actually were given media attention beyond the ticker-tape scroll on the bottom of the screen. Unfortunately we just do have have a relentless media juggernaut to hold the governments feet under the fire about all incidents concerning the bail-outs and stimulus.

Maybe it would be even more accurate to simply say that no one media corp could possible challenge every single act done by our government and bring it to the publics attention

I agree the media did not cover it so the people were not upset but why are these people acting like blind sheep and only getting upset at what the media tells them to be upset at? Do we even have a chance when the majority of Americans wait for Katie Couric to tell them its time to be angry?

 

[samsara15]

So how many of you classical conservatives, classical liberals, progressives, and libertarians support the ACLU, the most valiant defender of individual freedom in the US, with your cash donations?

 

[Pandora]

So how many of you classical conservatives, classical liberals, progressives, and libertarians support the ACLU, the most valiant defender of individual freedom in the US, with your cash donations?

If they were what you said I would donate money to them

but they are not

they pick and choose what "freedom's" they want to defend

 

[samsara15]

I certainly disagree with that. You simply don't value the freedoms they defend, yet try to call yourself a defender of freedom, which you clearly are not.

There are Right Wing advocacy groups, similar to the ACLU. Do you donate to them?

 

[GenSeneca]

I certainly disagree with that. You simply don't value the freedoms they defend, yet try to call yourself a defender of freedom, which you clearly are not.

There are Right Wing advocacy groups, similar to the ACLU. Do you donate to them?

NRA has my support because they defend the most important of all our rights, but they are not a right wing group.

Pandora is correct, the ACLU picks and chooses which freedoms, and which groups, they deem appropriate to defend.

 

[samsara15]

Then we have made it quite clear that the premise of this thread is not defendable. We have more than one vision of freedom in America today, a Right Wing and a Left Wing vision, and there are no classical liberals or conservatives present who meet the definition initally presented.

The ACLU certainly comes closest to meeting the original critieria than any other organization I can think of, but apparently those criteria were merely a moving target and only Right Wing definitions of meeting those criteria count.

I would say it is quite clear that the NRA is a Right Wing group.

 

[Dr.Who]

Thank you again for being the intellectual leader of the Progressives here on the forum.

Have you a defense of Progressive ideology as being something other than anti-liberal?

Perhaps we could do a great service to America by not calling progressives liberals? We should call the progressives progressive and make that a dirty word and call the classical liberals liberal and make that acceptible.

 

[Dr.Who]

So how many of you classical conservatives, classical liberals, progressives, and libertarians support the ACLU, the most valiant defender of individual freedom in the US, with your cash donations?

I have no doubt at all that the ACLU is far more progressive than classically liberal.

 

[samsara15]

The ACLU clearly meets the original criteria, as I read them in the initial post that began this thread. If the original criteria are not satisfactory, then they must be being redefined to meet someone's agenda. If we can't agree on what sentences and words mean, then we have no common ground from which we can discuss this issue.

If that is true, then this is a purely partisan issue.

 

[Little-Acorn]

the ACLU, the most valiant defender of individual freedom in the US,

That's really hilarious!

Thanks, we needed a humor break like that.