1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum

Putin suggests alternative site for Missile Defense station

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by Sadistic Savior, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In an uncharacteristic compromise, Putin has apparently agreed to stop pouting if the US uses an alternative base instead:

    Sounds good to me.

    Great. Glad to see they finally came around.

     
  2. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    You really think he came around? He is playing with the other G8 nations, stirring things up.
     
  3. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.
     
  4. Grond

    Grond New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Actually, Putin has not agree. Its been pointed out to the US side that he was simply calling Washington's bluff and has no forced Washington to all but admit that the system is a hostile move at his nation. Besides the fact, that Putin doesn't simply state his personal opinions. He has intelligence and military annalysts that do the research and brief him.
     
  5. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If that was what he was trying to do, he has failed. It will be really funny if Bush takes him up on his offer.

    Either way, we'll get our radar base, so I dont really care. There are advantages to both locations. If Putin's choice will make him happy while preserving NMD's effectiveness, I am ok with that.
     
  6. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    Putin wields a lot of power in this debate. Nobody has ever been able to defeat Russia. He has nuclear weapons too, lots of them. Just remember that.
     
  7. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Defeating Russia is not our goal, and is no longer necessary. They are already a democracy. Their retarded "cold war" is entirely one-sided.

    Nuclear weapons he cant (wont) use unless we attack him first. Since we obviously will never attack a democratic Russia, his whining can effectively be ignored. No, he does not wield any real power in this debate. The most he can do is irritate and annoy us.

    The best Russia can hope for in a nuclear conflict with us is mutual destruction. Do you really believe they will commit suicide over something olike this?

    No. All they can do is pout.
     
  8. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,401
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It's so much more effective to just let Russia defeat itself.

    That's Cold War logic. The whole "we're targeting the cities!" thing was just a political move; the world isn't constantly on the brink of nuclear war like it was twenty years ago.

    In essence, he won't use them unless we give him damn few alternatives. Obviously jumping up and down making lots of noise was the alternative he picked this time.
     
  9. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,401
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Putin's numerous references to the Cold War over the last few years have been akin to someone attempting to re-initiate a sandbox fight once in high school. You'd think both sides had outgrown the whole thing, but nooooooooo.

    While you're a little more optimistic about this than I am, I agree for the most part. We're probably not going to be attacking Russia any time soon, and the only way Putin would use his own missiles is if he felt they were his only chance - and considering that Russia owns more tanks than the US and Europe combined and could field the third-largest infantry force in the world (with generous conscription, of course) I don't think there's anything short of a nuclear attack (or the serious threat of a nuclear attack) that would get Putin to launch against us.

    Nah...this is way too trivial. If we'd been installing missile launchers in Eastern Europe, than yeah, maybe he would be willing to step things up a notch, but for a missile defense station?
     
  10. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    I know this, I know that there is no real cold war. It just depends on someone being stupid enough to attack the other first, which wont happen.

    But if Russia wields no real power behind its threat for those reasons, accordingly America wields no real power either when it comes to nuclear warfare.
     
  11. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Whats not to be optimistic about?

    The only reason you should feel threatened is if you really believe that Putin is willing to destroy his own nation over this issue. Mutual Destruction is the BEST outcome they can hope for in a war with us. Thats as good as it can get for them.

    That being said, does Putin strike you as a suicidal fanatic? I suppose anything is possible, but he doesnt look like that to me.

    And if he is not a sucicidal fanatic, it means he has no power. He has no way to threaten us. Bush is being polite, because it would be nice to have Russia on board as an ally (and I totally agree with him). But they are not a threat to us.

    Tanks based on obsolete technology. This isnt the Soviet union. This is a fragment of the Soviet Union, and they have not kept up with the times. Russian technology is very impressive compared to, say, China or North Korea.

    Compared to the US? Not so much.

    We have everything they do, but the reverse is not true. Thats not to say they are stupid. Far from it. But they simply dont have the economy to support a massive military the way we do. So it was inevitible that they would fall behind in most areas.

    I guess it is a good thing for us that:

    1) Russia is not an enemy as far as we are concerned.

    2) Our conventional forces are superior to any military that has ever existed in human history.

    The proliferation of Missile Defense systems will decrease the chances of nuclear war, and perhaps remove it as a possibility completely. That is a good thing for everyone. Even Russia.
     
  12. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,401
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It was more you saying that we would never attack a democratic Russia. Although chances of that are admittedly slim I wouldn't say "never."

    Putin strikes me as a Communist-wannabe who isn't quite in touch with the fact that his country isn't anywhere near as big and bad as it used to be. I think he talks big about little things but won't back it up with force unless he feels truly pressed - hence the US going only a little out of our way to keep him happy.

    They could be in a hurry. The Russian power structure is a house of cards and if Putin really steps in it, especially in regards to foreign policy with the US, we could be looking at a violent coup d'etat and couple of disaffected, angry old Communists running the second largest nuclear power in the world. Putin isn't suicidal but there are plenty of Russians who are.

    Classic Russian strategy involves throwing as many men with yesterday's weapons at whoever is attacking them and hoping that the technology divide isn't so big that they just repaint the battlefield with Russian blood (which inevitably happens anyway). What makes you think they'd change tactics?

    There will always be bigger guns.
     
  13. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The chances are so remote they might as well be zero.

    Which would make our missile shield even more necessary. Not less.

    But I have not seen strong evidence that this is going to happen.

    What makes you think such tactics would be effective on the modern battlefield?

    We are already experimenting with synthetic soldiers even now. These are not just sketches or brainstorming...these are actual prototypes.

    This is not WWII. Our technology gives us an overwhelming advantage in many areas. Numerical superiority means a lot less than it used to.

    But even if they DO matter, we still have the advantage where Russia is concerned:

    Russia has less than half our population. And we can conscript just as easily as they can, if it comes to that.

    And we are going to have them for the forseeable future.
     
  14. qalam

    qalam New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    The South
    The Putin-Bush thing looks like it was just a smoke screen to turn the attention away from what was happening at G8 meeting. Take a look at what was accomplished--not a whole not.

    Putin wants to return Russia to its power and influence that it use to have, but without communism.
     
  15. bokile

    bokile New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    This is some sort of compromise offered by the Russians:)

    He is on his way to success:confused: or you think it is not possible?
     
Loading...

Share This Page