read the fine print on Gang of 8 Amnesty bill

dogtowner

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as one would expect, its not as "tough" as billed

Ag workers requirements are halved.
Anyone who came here <16 also halved.
All manner of exemptions, and discretionary waiving that basically bypass anything inconvenient.
Oh, and how much government growth would it take to administer this ?

This is very very bad legislation. Rubio should be embarrased to be associated with it.

I get that he would love to be associated with the answer to getting amnesty passed but to embrace smoke, mirrors and outright lies makes him no different than any other slime oozing around DC.
 
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they seem incapable of such a sismple task. more amazing is how they think their ham handed subfertuge fools anyone.
They neither want that simplicity since it would be the end of the gravy train nor are they wrong in thinking that it fools many. In many ways all of congress is our enemy and we the people are successfully divided
 
Some claim this amnesty bill will result in the death of the R Party. That is not a bad thing. Then maybe are real political party with a platform based on individual liberty, non-intervention, and free market capitalism could rise to prominence.

The irony is that many Rs think legalizing 20-30mm illegals who vote overwhelmingly Dem, somehow helps the R party...:confused:
 
Some claim this amnesty bill will result in the death of the R Party. That is not a bad thing. Then maybe are real political party with a platform based on individual liberty, non-intervention, and free market capitalism could rise to prominence.


How did that work out for California? After Reagan passed Amnesty in 1986, I didn't see a new conservative party rise up. No, in fact California went from being a Red State for the last 25 years prior to passing Amnesty to the liberal Constitution hating cesspool it is today.

If Amnesty is passed in this Country, the same thing that happened in California will happen nation wide. There will no longer be representation for the majority of Americans who are conservative. There will only be a liberal government.
 
It would be nice to see bills that actually do what they claim and are clean for a cha ge

Wouldn't it though?

Now, if the Congress were honest, they'd say, "We passed amnesty back in the '80s, and just look at how many cheap workers we got! Hey, let's do it again, and bring in a whole new bunch of illegals."

and the wealthy donors, the ones who like t he cheap labor, would have to reply, "Yes, that's what we paid for!"

Instead of mealy mouthed nonsense about reforming immigration and such.

Congress is what has to be reformed, preferably by replacing the representatives we have with the ones we need.
 
How did that work out for California? After Reagan passed Amnesty in 1986, I didn't see a new conservative party rise up. No, in fact California went from being a Red State for the last 25 years prior to passing Amnesty to the liberal Constitution hating cesspool it is today.

If Amnesty is passed in this Country, the same thing that happened in California will happen nation wide. There will no longer be representation for the majority of Americans who are conservative. There will only be a liberal government.

Exactly my point. Do Rs win elections in CA? No. So, nationwide they will lose once amnesty is passed. But we both know once the Ds have total control, they will destroy everything. Then the American people will finally wake up and put an end to them too. Wishful thinking maybe...but that is all we have.
 
Exactly my point. Do Rs win elections in CA? No. So, nationwide they will lose once amnesty is passed. But we both know once the Ds have total control, they will destroy everything. Then the American people will finally wake up and put an end to them too. Wishful thinking maybe...but that is all we have.
Maybe it is all we have and yes it is certainly wishful thinking.

Our children have been indoctrinated by Hollywood and the public school systems, illegal immigrants are allowed to pour in by the millions not to be integrated into American life but as a sense of entitlement that America owes them for stealing their lands and so many other adults at this point are on the government dole .....

Who is it that you expecting to "wake up", exactly?
 
Maybe it is all we have and yes it is certainly wishful thinking.

Our children have been indoctrinated by Hollywood and the public school systems, illegal immigrants are allowed to pour in by the millions not to be integrated into American life but as a sense of entitlement that America owes them for stealing their lands and so many other adults at this point are on the government dole .....

Who is it that you expecting to "wake up", exactly?

Agreed...and yes we can only hope things will change for the better.

Some Americans including you, me, and others on this forum are awake. Hopefully more Americans will awaken as things progressively get worse. This poll would seem to indicate an awakening....http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/americans-fear-government-more-than-terror/
 
Agreed...and yes we can only hope things will change for the better.

Some Americans including you, me, and others on this forum are awake. Hopefully more Americans will awaken as things progressively get worse. This poll would seem to indicate an awakening....http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/americans-fear-government-more-than-terror/
Yes I would like to believe that to be true ...

But, as the ol' saying goes .... if you can't run them out ... then breed them out!

In this case, dumb down the children, allow millions of illegals in who know no better and simply out populate those who know differently and of course demonize them by calling them racist and every kind of "phobe" known to man!
 
Well it's been obvious to me for years now that my father's Democrat Party is a different animal today. It's been taken over by Marxists. They are smart, and well organized. There are thousands of their organizations and think tanks everywhere.

I don't hold out much hope for conservatives. The religious right is one of the worst too. They don't get involved much in politics, a good number of them don't even vote, and I know first hand how they prefer to ignore the news. They never stand up to the liberal agenda and push back, just roll over or turn the other cheek and keep to themselves.
 
Well it's been obvious to me for years now that my father's Democrat Party is a different animal today. It's been taken over by Marxists. They are smart, and well organized. There are thousands of their organizations and think tanks everywhere.

I don't hold out much hope for conservatives. The religious right is one of the worst too. They don't get involved much in politics, a good number of them don't even vote, and I know first hand how they prefer to ignore the news. They never stand up to the liberal agenda and push back, just roll over or turn the other cheek and keep to themselves.


Yes it is a sad state of affairs. But take heart...those of us capable of thinking and reasoning KNOW liberalism is a utter failure in EVERYTHING it controls and touches. A nation can't succeed under liberalism...it will ultimately fail. So, we must hold out hope that those of us who are sane, well ultimately fix things. I want to believe that many libs and Ds are NOT so dumb as to continue to buy liberalism's many lies, particularly as IT destroys the nation.

This column does an excellent job of spelling it all out....




The Total Failure of Modern Liberalism


What is Liberalism?
Modern American Liberalism is not the same as classical (Jeffersonian) liberalism. In fact it is almost the exact opposite. Modern American liberalism is:
  • The (mistaken) belief that the restriction of Individual Liberty and private property rights can improve society through government efforts to design and manage economic and social structures.
  • The (mistaken) belief that a mob of men can better manage society than core values that protect the individual and his property and enforcement of laws that ensure equal protection of citizens while limiting government and allowing individuals to protect themselves.
  • The (mistaken) belief that social safety nets imposed on the populace are more compassionate than allowing the individual freedom to fail (or succeed) from one’s life decisions.
  • The (mistaken) belief that involuntary re-distribution of wealth is moral.
Political correctness achieves the opposite of its intent-
What is the intent of political correctness? Possibly to achieve less animosity and promote greater harmony among different cultural and racial groups by limiting the publicly acceptable speech in diverse company through collective shaming and disparagement of undesirable thoughts and verbiage in public. The intent being to remove thought and speech offensive to certain groups.
Redistribution of wealth fails to achieve economic equality and prosperity-
The concept of wealth redistribution by central government planners has been attempted many times and always results in the reverse of its intention. The dynamics of economic interaction cause people to respond positively to income enhancement, but the productivity of those in society with a propensity to succeed economically is proportional to their ability to keep what they earn.
Multiculturalism inflames cultural jealousies and bias instead of erasing them
Multiculturalism is the liberal concept of unnaturally forcing the amalgamation of differing cultures through institutional structures designed to promote the blending of disparate peoples in public settings.
Liberalism is in opposition to individual liberty because the individual is to be subjugated to the collective will under the modern liberal ideal. With Liberal collective management of society, the individual is to surrender to the will of the mob. The group is supreme and the individual is subordinate.
http://www.truenews.org/Liberalism/failure_of_liberalism.html
 
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Well it's been obvious to me for years now that my father's Democrat Party is a different animal today. It's been taken over by Marxists. They are smart, and well organized. There are thousands of their organizations and think tanks everywhere.

I don't hold out much hope for conservatives. The religious right is one of the worst too. They don't get involved much in politics, a good number of them don't even vote, and I know first hand how they prefer to ignore the news. They never stand up to the liberal agenda and push back, just roll over or turn the other cheek and keep to themselves.

Yes, and I would add that while polls say there are lots of conservatives most people I meet just accept too much liberal think as if it is normal. I belong to another non-political forum but occasionally political topics are brought up. Too many people see relatively bland conservative statements as shocking. i mentioned once that i thought Obamacare was bad for the country and many said they were shocked and thought that I wanted poor people to starve in the streets. Any of you who have listened to me know that is not true. On another occasion I mentioned that the United nations was more insidious than harmless and while no one was willing to debate it in the slightest a few just posted "Wow just wow." as a typical response.

The catch phrases of the liberals are effective while those from the conservatives are not. Conservatives do have better ideas but it takes time for people to learn a whole idea and many really are and are happy to remain ignorant. Kindergarten logic like 'just let the gov fix the problem' is too popular and nuanced ideas about freedom and markets are harder to grasp.
 
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