Recycling to survive

[GenSeneca]

...........You're welcome But seriously the problems within the US economy are a tad more deep seated than just hollaring socialism versus capitalism all the time.

I realize you aren't an American... I don't know if you've ever read anything about the founders or from the founders, don't know if you've ever even read our constitution... but based on comments like the ones you have made, I don't think you have.

The economy is not supposed to be a "Problem" for the Government to solve... Mixing politics with the economy creates more problems than it solves and our founders understood this, thats why they spoke at great lengths about the importance of lazes fare capitalism - Keeping the Government out. A separation of Econ and State if you will. We need to get back to that, separation of Econ and State, Separation of Church and State, and finally, we need a separation of Earth and State.

...........vote for whomever you like personaly I think Obama is as vacuous as McCain and come voting day you'd all be better off staying at home.

I agree about them both being vacuous and would add they are both opportunists with their own self interest in mind... I don't agree with the staying at home part.

If Ron Paul or Bob Barr get enough votes, it would send a clear message that the electorate is not happy with our options... like what happened when Ross Perot ran, it sent a clear message and things got better for a short time... Then politicians do what politicians do, they got greedy and complacent. Yes, I mean politicians on both sides.

 

[GenSeneca]

Taxes!!??? Do you think that the German car workers pay less tax than American car workers!!?? check out the success of BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. etc. Airbus is now the world leader in Aircraft manufacture....do their workers pay more or less tax than Boeing!!??

The US has the second highest business taxes in the world... we are not business friendly and are becoming less friendly. Also, here the Employer is responsible for things like healthcare and the countries you cite... the Government takes care of them.

You are comparing apples and oranges... while they are both round and fruit, the innards are totally different.

 

[dahermit]

I can give you ONE word as to why they are struggling: SOCIALISM

The anti-capitalist socialists LOVE to raise taxes on business and regulate them out of a profit, forcing them overseas or out of business... and whats your answer? MORE SOCIALIST POLITICIANS!!!

In 1980 the ratio of CEO pay to that of the average American worker was 40:1. Currently, it is 400:1. If taxes are "forcing businesses" overseas, where is all the money coming from for the CEO's?

How do explain "socialist" European counties that have a higher standard of living for all the people not just business owners? Now, do not hand me, "a higher work ethic."

 

[dahermit]

Why can other countries make things cheaper? I'll give you one reason: Taxes

Why is my nation up to our necks in DEBT? Socialist Policies... Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, and all kinds of other SOCIAL programs that have run up the tab.

While simply yelling Socialism may not fix anything.... People need to understand that Socialist policies and programs are at the heart of our downfall.... Then maybe, once people reject Socialism, we can fix things.

France has socialized medicine that works. Workers in Europe expect and get a whole month off from work in the summer. Western European counties have a higher standard of living than Americans have. Infant mortality is lower in Europe than in the U.S. They have many socialistic features in their governments. Taxes are higher in Europe than in the U.S., yet the people are much better off in most of those counties. Conservatives hide behind the concept of "free enterprise" to mask their unmitigated greed and disregard for the living conditions of the American worker.

 

[The Scotsman]

Also, here the Employer is responsible for things like healthcare and the countries you cite... the Government takes care of them.

............what???? the employer pays twice as much as the employee!!! I pay Income tax and then social security payments come on top of that....the employer then pays twice as much as the employee to the government.

How much do you pay for fuel? We pay nearly $10 per gallon for fuel ....... 75% of which is tax!!!

From my monthy salary
- 22% is taken income tax
- 9% is taken in National Insurance (employer pays twice that amount)

Gross - tax = 31% .....then on top of all that 17.5% purchase tax (VAT) on everything I buy, if and I say IF I manage to save anything my savings are then taxed at 21% on the interest I earn. Trust me you guys live in a fiscal paradise.

Its just the same in other EU countries ..........

 

[The Scotsman]

The economy is not supposed to be a "Problem" for the Government to solve... Mixing politics with the economy creates more problems than it solves and our founders understood this, thats why they spoke at great lengths about the importance of lazes fare capitalism - Keeping the Government out. A separation of Econ and State if you will. We need to get back to that, separation of Econ and State, Separation of Church and State, and finally, we need a separation of Earth and State.

.......following your though process then, there would be no ecomomy in the US now. The banking and insurance industry would have just ceased to exist which takes us back to the head post of the thread.

I think we should extend an invitation to the US to join the European Union in order to take advantage of the euro-zone economic trading block. I think you'd do quite well then you could apply for billions of € in grants to re-build your economy

 

[GenSeneca]

.......following your though process then, there would be no ecomomy in the US now. The banking and insurance industry would have just ceased to exist which takes us back to the head post of the thread.

I think we should extend an invitation to the US to join the European Union in order to take advantage of the euro-zone economic trading block. I think you'd do quite well then you could apply for billions of € in grants to re-build your economy

You didn't follow my thoughts at all... I was the one who said if the GSE's were too big to fail and needed to be bailed out, they were too big to remain whole and needed to be divided up and placed into private hands - Away from the Government.

The banks took a serious hit because of the GSE collapse... They needed liquidity and security to remain in business but instead of keeping them private, the strings attached to the money now make the banks little more than privately owned GSE's.... Thats NOT a long term solution to the credit problem.

While you seem to think I have some myopic and simplistic view of how capitalism should work, I recognize that we didn't get to where we are overnight and that its going to take time, and the political will, to return to our constitutional roots.

 

[BigRob]

.......following your though process then, there would be no ecomomy in the US now. The banking and insurance industry would have just ceased to exist which takes us back to the head post of the thread.

I think we should extend an invitation to the US to join the European Union in order to take advantage of the euro-zone economic trading block. I think you'd do quite well then you could apply for billions of € in grants to re-build your economy

You guys do not have any money to lend anyway, you just dumped trillions in to bail out your own banks.

 

[The Scotsman]

While you seem to think I have some myopic and simplistic view of how capitalism should work,....

.........not at all Sir! My problem is that I'm pretty disenchanted with the way the UK has turned into some slop hole of a country after having joined the EU back in the 70s. I would like to see the US succeed in both economic and political terms as it represents everything that I would have liked Britain to have been. Where I think the US is going wrong though, is that whilst trying to be a free "capitalist society" the greed and lack of covenance in business is not countered by accoutability to the people.

A society is only as good as its people. Whilst the desire to succeed on ones own is admirable if the motivation to succeed is replaced with greed then I think society is the poorer for it. In the US as in the UK, Government allowed the banking industries to forge ahead and create this ridiculous situation because they were entranced with the wealth that they thought was being created. Our bumbling buffoon Brown, for example, vaunted these bankers as demi-gods lauding them and showering them honours. Thus I think that the GSE situation encapsulates the struggle between grasping the reality of what should have been a highly regulated operation within a free market........perhaps someone should have listened to Richard Baker!

You suggest a return to your constitutional roots...maybe that would work but whatever you do you need to have stronger Government. Government of the people for the people not Government of lawyers for lobby groups and vested interests; its these that have undermined politics and perverted policy to their interests at the cost to the people!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You guys do not have any money to lend anyway, you just dumped trillions in to bail out your own banks.

Which is why Europe will bounce-back MUCH-more-quickly than the U.S.-economy.

"In comparison, U.S. pension assets in the top 300 grew 6%. The U.S. saw 13 funds drop out of the P&I/WW 300, in large part because of the dollar’s 11.4% drop against the euro. Among the names that fell off the list are Xerox Corp., Viacom Inc. and PepsiCo Inc.

“The U.S. is still the biggest player, but it’s not as far ahead of everyone else anymore,” Mr. Urwin said."

We could learn a-little-bit from Euro-economics.

They (obviously) know what they're doing.

"The second ethical obligation is to respect fundamental human rights. The fund is taking a stand against serious violations of human rights, such as child labor, gross corruption, and severe environmental degradation. The fund divests itself of shares in companies which produces certain weapons, for example, cluster-munitions. Norway has called for a complete ban on such weapons. The ethical guidelines were adopted by the Norwegian Parliament in 2004."

 

[BigRob]

Which is why Europe will bounce-back MUCH-more-quickly than the U.S.-economy.

You are in favor of a much larger bailout I take it?

We could learn a-little-bit from Euro-economics.

They (obviously) know what they're doing.

The dollar has been weak against the EURO for awhile now, this is not a "new" thing. It is not bad however to have this situation. What it does it create much better investment opportunities in the US, which we have been seeing as foreign companies are buying up real estate and many other things.

Now given the banking crisis, it will probably take a bit longer for this to sort itself out, but a weak dollar against the EURO is not really a terrible thing in terms of FDI.