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Reform America

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by GenSeneca, Jun 15, 2008.

  1. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to share a few ideas I had about reforming America. Please feel free to question or comment on what I have proposed or share your own list.

    1. Balanced budget requirement

    Just that, requires that the budget be correctly balanced annually under threat of removal from office. This extends right down the line of Government and its agencies. In the private sector, you cannot run a deficit every year and expect to keep your job.

    2. Budgetary Spending and Tax Collection Restrictions

    The Federal Budget cannot grow by more than 1.5% a year and can only grow as a result of budget surplus. To avoid being taxed into oblivion, taxes are capped by a flat tax that affects all persons in the United States at an equal rate and those federal withholdings cannot exceed 30% of income.

    (Only actual people able to vote, with a source of income and guaranteed constitutional rights within our government are to be taxed by federal government. Foreign imports are the only inanimate's that face a one time federal tax at their point of entry. Transactions of goods and services between people, as well as property, within the United States are not taxed on a federal level. States would continue to have their own tax policies.)

    No longer would there be federal taxes on businesses or industries headquartered and/or operating primarily in the United States.

    3. Removal of Omnibus Bills

    Unrelated legislation can no longer be lumped together for expediency or political childishness. Each ancillary bill or amendment must be Germain to the bill up for a vote. I.E. an Energy bill can contain only energy related amendments and so on.

    4. Removal of all earmarks

    Gone.

    5. Sunset clauses become standard for all new legislation and retroactive for old legislation

    Congress should spend far more of its time going over the piles of previously enacted legislation than writing and passing new laws. Laws must go through review to ensure they are meeting the purpose of their passage. These reviews must take place at least every decade, at most annually, and conclude with a vote to renew (with or without updates) or remove. This work is long overdue because reviewing old legislation, that other people wrote, doesn't get a politician camera time or votes for re-election.

    6. Military Budget and War Tax

    We disband the Military. Just kidding... The military budget is set to 25% of the Nat Budget during Peacetime and War. Nasa and the military work more closely together to prevent redundancy and waste in R&D of new technology.

    If the military is forced to exceed its budget, like say for a real worldwide conflict, a 10% federal sales tax is an option for bringing in additional money.

    Its important to note that this would be the ONLY federal sales tax and it would ONLY occur during times of war when our Military exceeds its 25% budget.

    7. All Primary's take place one the same day

    All voters primaries happen on Super Tuesday, one year prior to the presidential election. For people like me in states following the "primary" states, theres not much left to choose from when I get to vote. Every state is supposed to be equal in the eyes of government, thats the purpose of the Electoral College, so this would end the preferential treatment given to primary states during an election. We are all Americans and every state should be treated equally in this regard.

    8. Provisions of War

    In the event of war, should we ever occupy a foreign country through ground invasion (as is our case in Iraq and Afghanistan), Congress is obligated to operate at least one regular session a year inside the occupied foreign country until the conflict is resolved or the country is secured.

    9. Inflationary Concerns

    Americans are subject to the negative effects of inflation, so no longer is government going to be insulated from its effects. No system completely mitigates the fluctuating value of currency. Our fed does a decent job of keeping inflation in check, (Greenspan had much better results than Bernanke seems to achieve), but they have to work around the obstacles Government places in the way of private sector.

    Having a budget thats tied into the economy and taxing every last working citizen equally, serve as serious incentive for politicians of ANY PARTY to see we are ALL doing well by their policies. (No more class warfare through taxes)

    Uncle Sam will care a helluva lot more about keeping inflation in check when it affects his money too and not just ours. Insulating him from inflation, as we do now, has only compounded the budgetary problems we currently face.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    FedFarm, I would appreciate if you could let me know about the constitutionality of such proposals.

    OK people, feel free to fire away at my suggestions and/or add your own! :)
     
  2. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer New Member

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    Agree conditionally. The budget must be balanced except during times of war. Without that exception, there's no way we would ever be able to engage in a war, even to defend our own country against invasion.

    The Federal Budget must meet ONLY those expenditures specifically enumerated in the Constitution. Anything not specifically enumerated in the Constitution is not to be funded by the government, and the budget must be allowed to grow as necessary to meet the requirements of those specifically enumerated items.

    Taxation? The FairTax is the best possible means of equitably raising revenue, while at the same time not punishing those in the lower income strata, and should be implemented at the federal, state, and local levels. No more "income taxes" at all. No more "corporate taxes" at all. Only a strict consumption tax, that everyone pays when they make a purchase. If you're not familiar with the FairTax, check it out HERE

    Agree, but again, only those items specifically enumerated in the Constitution may be regulated or funded by Congress. Also, no Congressman may vote on any Bill until he/she has personally read the entire Bill, and no vote for a Bill may be called in less than 60 days from the time it has been presented to the respective House of Congress. In those 60 days, the Bill must be made available to the public through an official website to be set up and maintained by the government, as well as in Public Libraries, giving We The People time to read the Bills, and inform our representatives of how we wish for them to vote on it.

    Agree

    Agree in concept. All Laws would be limited to no more than 10 years, and no funding for any law would be for more than the 2 years.

    The budget for the military must be flexible enough to ensure our national security, regardless of any percentage of the national budget, period. Any overlap of technology, equipment, and material though, should be shared with the agencies or entities that benefit from the technology. As far as NASA, while they do provide a definite benefit to our nation, since they are not part of the Article 1 Section 8 specifically enumerated authorities, it would have to be disbanded, or absorbed into the DoD.

    Agree whole heartedly!:D There's absolutely no reason for the primaries to be strung out over the course of several months. The problem is that it would require a Constitutional Amendment to do so, as the states political parties are allowed to set their own primaries, regardless of when the general election is.

    Disagree. It's bad enough that we've got those bleeding hearts in Washington DC, I don't want them anywhere NEAR a combat zone, at all, ever, not even on "fact finding missions", because all they end up doing is pulling resources away from combat operations to play "body guard" for a bunch of self important nincompoops.

    Inflation is inflation, and today is tied to the global economy too much for Congress to be able to regulate other than by falsely manipulating pricing such as they did for decades with gasoline price regulations. As far as the best way to make Congress do a better job, I've come up with a more "personal" approach to the problem if you'll bear with me.

    First, while the Constitution does provide for Congresscritters to be paid, it does not establish any amount, ergo the following;

    1) Senators will be paid the AVERAGE of the citizens of their States, period.

    2) Representatives will be paid the AVERAGE of the citizens in their Districts, period.

    3) The State or District the Congresscritter is from will pay for and maintain a domicile equivalent to the AVERAGE in that Senators State or Representatives District.

    4) Congresscritters are not allowed to receive any payment of any kind for anything other than their service to their State or District while they are in office. No free plane rides, no free tickets to anything, no free dinners (other than those paid for by family members or friends from before they were elected), nothing. They are getting paid to do a job, they are expected to DO the job we're paying them for, and no moonlighting.

    5) The government does need to pay for secure transportation, and a driver for Congresscritters, so they will be allowed a secure vehicle comparable to the AVERAGE in their State or District.

    Any Senator or Congressman who elects to run for any office other than the one they currently hold must resign their current position before running for another office. I'm not paying my employees to go look for another job, and I resent the heck out of paying my representatives to look for another job on my dime. If I found out that any of my employees were looking for another job "on the clock", they'd be fired so quick, they'd never know what hit 'em.

    You can't "represent" someone if you're pulling down mid 6 figures and the people you represent are making $40k a year. You can't "represent" someone if you're living in a mansion while they're living in a 1,200 sq. ft. ranch. You can't "represent" someone if you're being driven around in a stretch limo while they're driving a 5 year old sedan. You can't "represent" someone if you're moonlighting and getting free trips, dinners, tickets, and all of the other perks, and they're busting their butts holding down 2 jobs just to keep the lights turned on, and you sure as H*ll can't "represent" someone if you're spending 2 years looking for another job on their dime!
     
  3. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I love it

    But...

    I didn’t see the important part that no one in congress or government for that matter can give their selves a freaking raise. Voters give raises only.

    On Super Tuesday west coast starts voting at 5 am and east coast at 8 am, the poles close west coast 8pm east coast 11pm that way they open nation wide and close nation wide at the same time and no one can say so and so took Florida now I may as well not vote.

    And every freaking American must show valid ID before they vote, no more dead freaking democrats voting. And if you are caught doing voter fraud its life I prison with no possibility of parole!

    No spending tax payer money on people wanting to kill their kids or have sex change operations or any other weird stuff!

    Explain NASA again? Do they have to share that portion of the budget with military?

    No more subsidies (spelling) no more paying people not to grow wheat on their farms, exc.

    Is this a flat tax you are talking about? 10% of your earnings? I could go for that but I would rather not be taxed a dime on what I earn, just on what I spend.

    That would promote earning and saving both.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    OH I LOVE THIS!

    I really wish this could be a law.

    Obama has been running for president since about a month after he sat in his stupid senate chair, doing little to nothing at his job but showing up for key votes that makes him look good on the campaign trail.

    We could have been rid of a whole lot of jack asses if this were a law. And we wouldn’t be wasting our time with the dumb nut jobs that run for president every 4 years so they can come to Oregon to smoke pot and pick up hairy legged chicks in berkinstalks, like Dennis Kucinich.
     
  5. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Agreed, except for time of war. When the US is at war, all other considerations are secondary.

    Agreed, except for genuine emergencies, again - wartime.

    Disagree - these represent the compromises necessary in a democracy.

    Agree.

    I agree for the new legislation, but a lot of old legislation represents hard-fought battles and compromises - you'd be opening a huge can of worms with this. At a minimium, retroactive sunsets have to be longer - maybe 20 years.

    Disagree - during wartime, revenue might have to raised quickly. Also disagree with the NASA thing, because NASA needs to be privatized.

    Disagree. Primaries are organized by private entities - political parties, and their dates are none of the government's business.

    Not serious.
     
  6. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle New Member

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    Any taxation or spending increaces must recieve a 2/3 majority in BOTH houses of Congress as well as a Presidential signature before becoming law. Any and all such legislation shall be in effect for no more than two years.

    Violation of the Constitution should be punishable by a mandatory firing squad.

    Anyone who gets more from the government than they pay in taxes should be declared a ward of the state and should not be permitted to vote. Military & emergency personnel would NOT have their pay counted against them for this purpose.

    All voters should be required to provide photo ID to vote. Vote fraud, being nothing less than a direct assault on the country's founding principles, should be punished with mandatory firing squad.
     
  7. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Wow fellas, you have all added some excellent commentary - much appreciated! You guys had a great deal to say so I'll try to address points one at a time but not necessarily in particular order:
    I want to get this out of the way quickly - 3. Removal of Omnibus Bills
    Disagree - these represent the compromises necessary in a democracy.
    I think you're confusing Omnibus Bills with Amendments. What I'm saying is, Politicians cannot attach, for instance, an Iraq withdraw date and time line amendment to a Farm Bill, or Energy Bill... Amendments have to be Germain to the Bill. If you are still for Omnibus Bills - the grouping of unrelated legislation into one bill - Then please make a stronger case as to why these are a part of necessary compromise in a democracy.
    -
    The budget must be balanced except during times of war.
    This seemed like a popular addition - One which I had omitted for this posting. The dilemma, as I see it, is this:
    What safeguards or qualifications can be put in place to prevent our Government from keeping us in a perpetual state of war?

    Politicians like exploiting loopholes, I don't want us to leave one open for them. Once there is a satisfactory answer, the provision can be added along with the safeguard. I haven't come up with anything solid enough to be satisfied, so lets hear what you think....
    -
    Federal Budget must meet ONLY those expenditures specifically enumerated in the Constitution....
    I would add something like: ...and as explained in the Federalist Papers.
    Again, help me to close any loopholes - Think about how these weasels would try to work around even the best legislation and cut them off at the knees.
    -
    Outside of the confines of items specifically enumerated by the Constitution, the 1.5% cap remains. Within the Constitution, the cap can be removed.
    Agree? Additional comments and suggestions are welcome.
    -
    Any taxation or spending increaces must recieve a 2/3 majority in BOTH houses of Congress as well as a Presidential signature before becoming law.
    This is very similar to Cloture voting, which I would like to see strengthened by always requiring 60% of the sitting representatives and not just 60% of those present for the vote. For example, the Senate has 60 members show up for a vote, all 60 have to vote "Yea" for the bill to pass. If all 100 show up, they still need 60.
    -
    FairTax VS FlatTax As interpreted by Seneca

    Fair tax is a Consumption tax, it presumptively only affect people that buy new products. I see that as not being very fair - unless your idea of "fair" is "Those who can afford it". Such a system does nothing to eliminate the class warfare and divisions inflamed by the tax code. There will be far more people NOT paying the tax than paying it - So why not raise it? Suggestions to do so would be very popular, and likely pass, since it effects the "biggest spenders" the most. I also don't like that its open about being a "Progressive" tax.
    Flat Tax is an earnings tax, at least as I propose it. All citizens who are old enough to vote (18+) and have some form of income/earnings/dividends etc. will pay the SAME percentage of their income in tax. This way, politicians cannot suggest raising taxes on "THE RICH" without it being devastating to the poor. With such a tax system in place, voters will be far more sensitive about tax increases - "better be for a damn good reason!" - and so politicians will have to find something other than class-warfare to pander and play Robin Hood.
    OK, fire away... Lets hear more on this issue. I am not above changing my mind and admitting it, but - "better be for a damn good reason!"
    -
    1. no Congressman may vote on any Bill until he/she has personally read the entire Bill - How do we police this?
    2. no vote for a Bill may be called in less than 60 days from the time it has been presented to the respective House of Congress. - Too long, 30 days max. We don't want our "Congresscriters" sitting around with nothing to do their last two months in office....
    3. In those 60 days, the Bill must be made available.... - I find they make the bills available very quickly:
    I find obtaining the bills is pretty fast and easy, its sifting through ALL of it that most people just don't have the time for. This is what needs improvement, translating the information into something the average voter can understand and trust as being reflective of the actual legislation.
    -
    I agree for the new legislation, but a lot of old legislation represents hard-fought battles and compromises - you'd be opening a huge can of worms with this. At a minimium, retroactive sunsets have to be longer - maybe 20 years.
    I'm flexible on the minimum but let me make a case for 10 year retroactive sunset before you settle on 20... Every Decade (10 years) those "Hard-Fought" battles would become like anniversary ceremonies that remind people of why we have that legislation and to show how far we've come as a nation. Politicians would also love to say they voted for the Civil Rights Act of 64, they - and the press - would revel in the PR possibilities this would present.
    I would like to see others chime in on this as well... 10? 15? 20?
    -
    As far as NASA... absorbed into the DoD.-
    NASA needs to be privatized.-
    Explain NASA again?-

    Guess it depends on who you ask as to where they think NASA fits in... Good thing I didn't mention NOAA or HUD.
    It was my intention to see more cooperation between NASA and the Military.
    I don't believe privatization of NASA would be a good idea. Foreign investors could then take over control and possibly even total ownership of NASA and all of our most sensitive research technology would be open to the world.
    Absorbing NASA into the DOD is an interesting concept, I would like to hear more about how this could work... I would like to see both strengthened as a result, not one at the expense of the other.
    -
    8. Provisions of War
    Disagree...pulling resources away from combat operations to play "body guard"
    Fed Farm, Point well made and well taken.
    Not serious.Actually, it was a little tongue in cheek and I am glad to replace it with:
    8. Congressional Provisions -
    1) Senators will be paid the AVERAGE of the citizens of their States, period.
    2) Representatives will be paid the AVERAGE of the citizens in their Districts, period.
    3) The State or District the Congressman is from will pay for and maintain a domicile equivalent to the AVERAGE in that Senators State or Representatives District.
    4) Congressmen are not allowed to receive any payment of any kind for anything other than their service to their State or District while they are in office. No free plane rides, no free tickets to anything, no free dinners (other than those paid for by family members or friends from before they were elected), nothing. They are getting paid to do a job, they are expected to DO the job we're paying them for, and no moonlighting.
    5) The government does need to pay for secure transportation, and a driver for Congressmen, so they will be allowed a secure vehicle comparable to the AVERAGE in their State or District.
    Any Senator or Congressman who elects to run for any office other than the one they currently hold must resign their current position before running for another office.

    I suggested 8. as a plan for: "Extending the Congressional Attention Span" and you gave me exactly the kind of thing I was looking for!
    Excellent work Fed!
    -
    9. Inflationary Concerns
    Congress to regulate...
    I want them to regulate as little as possible. I am searching for ways to make Congress look a little closer at their proposals, the foreseen but ignored consequences and the long term affects. They focus WAY too much on whats best for the next election - Help me to fix that, its bad for the economy AND directly has an influence on inflation, e.g. Taxpayers bailing out the Mortgage Market. We dumped billions onto the market and predictably, inflation went up. We "helped" less than 3% of the mortgage borrowers, ALL of the Lenders and NONE of the regular taxpayers.
    -
    Disagree. Primaries are organized by private entities - political parties, and their dates are none of the government's business.
    You in a primary state? My vote has never counted for squat in the primary and I'm not alone, well in the majority. Besides, we're talking about the President of all the states - giving that much power to so few states seems wrong to me. Convince the others and myself why having primary states produces better candidates than our suggestion would.
    -
    Super Tuesday west coast starts voting at 5 am and east coast at 8 am, the poles close west coast 8pm east coast 11pm that way they open nation wide and close nation wide at the same time
    Excellent! Consider it added.
    -
    photo ID to vote
    valid ID [to] vote

    "You evil right wingers... Disenfranchising Democrat voters, so typical."
    So we're all agreed, Voter ID is a good thing! :D
    -
    If I have missed anything you wanted me to address, my apologies, please bring it back up for discussion. Great ideas fellas, maybe some others will join us in the reforms... and please join me in welcoming any newcomers into the conversation.

    Please, add new provisions as you may think of them, theres no shortage of things that needs reformed in our government!
     
  8. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    This is no bigee - the congress can cut off money any time they want. Congress DOES need to re-assert it's prerogative to formally declare war, instead of just all the post-WWII resolutions. I've said before here that congress should also state that it will in the future have power to declare war against organizations, (the warfare of the 21st century) not just states. If you want congress to have the power to declare an end to a war formally, that would require a constitutional amendment. Once they start one - it's in the president's ballpark.

    NASA is a giant bureaucracy that is a far remove from the lean and mean daring group of scientists and engineers of decades ago. It's interplanetary exploration is properly a role for a private society. It has been involved in too many failures. It currently is operating the space station, a giant sink for money and a colossal boondoggle in the sky which has no real purpose. The space shuttle has never lived up to it's PR. DOD has a completely different role.

    Don't like how the two major parties, private entities, do it? Found your own party then, and do it the way you want.
     
  9. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    You seem to misunderstand, Politicians are one rung above lawyers on the food chain - most of them are lawyers - and I don't want some slick talker declaring our "war on drugs" a good enough reason to have no budgetary limits - which keeps feeding the Congressional appetite for philanthropy.

    My opinion of NASA, their role and service is decidedly different from your own. I agree NASA needs to be reformed but I would prefer to do it in a way that protects our research and advances in technology from other nations.

    ={CaLiCo}= Party
    GenSeneca Founder
    Now all I need is a few billion dollars.... Anyone spare some change? :)
     
  10. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Ill give you 10 bucks if I can write it off :D
     
  11. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    I've worked on both DOD and NASA projects in the aerospace industry. There already are laws prohibiting the transfer of sensitive technology by anybody. However, as Bubba Clinton's permission to Loral Corp (a big contributor of his) to transfer sensitive missile technology to the PRC showed, they have to be strengthened. This however, has nothing necessarily to do with the issue of privatizing NASA.
     
  12. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer New Member

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    Not much time this morning, off to the office so I'll just hit one of the high spots
    I provided a link to the FairTax website, please take the time to study it. If you haven't, I'd also suggest reading the actual legislation, HR 25 and S 1025. The FairTax eliminates the "class warfare and divisions inflamed by the tax code" by ELIMINATING the tax code. No more federal withholding, including Social Security, what you earn is what you're paid (except for State taxes, unless they adopt it too). The FairTax is an inclusive tax, which is paid at the point of purchase, so there is no "getting out of paying it". It eliminates the "underground economy" by compelling (for instance) hookers, drug dealers, illegal immigrants, and anyone else who works for 'cash' to pay the tax when they make a purchase. Again, please study the legislation and read the information on the website, it answers all of your concerns.

    Therein lies the problem, it is an earnings tax, which was not any part of the FF's original plan. Earnings taxes are an impediment to work since the more you work, the more taxes you pay. It also fails to address the underground economy which could still thrive. The only way, IMHO, to deal with the situation, and get back to the FF's original plan, is to eliminate the IRS, and in it's place, install an income neutral system.
     
  13. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Hey!

    I like that fair tax, it is just like the plan I wanted. You have the incentive to save money not spend it but everyone pays because everyone buys. What are the chances of this sort of tax ever really happening?
     
  14. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer New Member

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    It's gaining momentum all the time. If you're really interested, just go to the FairTax.org website, read up on it some more, and then e-mail, and write your Senators and your Representative telling them that you expect them to support the FairTax if they are to expect your vote in the next election. There are GrassRoots efforts all over the country that you can join, which also gets the attention of our elected employees.
     
  15. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer New Member

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    Unfortunately, for the forseeable future, we are going to be in a perpetual state of war, the GWOT. The difference with this one is that by comparison to all of our previous wars, it's a low-intensity conflict, and as time goes on, will mostly be waged by Special Ops forces rather than our conventional forces, so the costs will be relatively minimal. Even everyones favorite bugger-bear of the moment, Iran, won't require the inclusion of massive ground forces like Iraq has, simply because we're not the least bit interested in removing Achmed Pajamabottoms, or the Ayatolla Assaholea of the moment, all we have to do is a very few selective surgical air strikes, and they're crippled.
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    I really wish you hadn't mentioned the Federalist Papers. The Federalist was primarily written by Hamilton, who was a monarchist, and is primarily responsible for the mess we're in today. He is the one that advocated for our original national debt, he is the one that pushed for the "national bank" which brought on the "speculators" that are the primary reason behind our inflation, and outrageous fuel prices (among other things) today. No, mandating that the "Congress may fund only those agencies and programs specifically enumerated in the Constitution" leaves no "wiggle room" that I can see. If you do see any, please list them so that they can be addressed.
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    Addressed above.
    -
    Not that I disagree with your proposal, but it would require a Constitutional Amendment in order to do so.
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    10 years is sufficient. As for existing Law, it's time they rolled up their sleeves and got to work getting rid of all of the old, out of date laws on the books anyway. Anything less than 20 years old, can wait until it is 20 years old to sunset before being addressed, anything older than 20 years, well, they're finally going to earn their money.

    As for the Voting Rights Act of '68, that thing needs to be ripped out of the books yesterday. It's long past time people figured out that the Constitution itself, specifically Section II of the 14th Amendment, and the 19th and 26th Amendments already address everyones "right to vote" (there IS no "right to vote", it is your State that permits you to vote). The Voting Rights Act of '68 was a band-aid fix to a sucking chest wound problem, and has no true authority as it is not a Constitutional Amendment, nor is it in keeping with the provisions of Article I Section VIII of the Constitution.
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    The only way for us to be in compliance with the Constitution is for NASA to be absorbed into one of the specifically enumerated "agencies", or for there to be a Constitutional Amendment specifically authorizing it. The fact is that Article I Section IX already prohibits such expendatures as it says; "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law;...", and given the that only legal "laws" are those authorized by Article I Section VIII, in which NASA is not covered, their funding (along with over 65% of our entire Federal Budget) is illegal.

    Oh, and far as HUD, DEFUND THEM NOW!

    My pleasure, happy to be of assistance.
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    Congress doesn't have the Constitutional authority to regulate ANYTHING that isn't in Article I Section VIII, or as specifically enumerated elsewhere in the Constitution, PERIOD. As for them bailing anyone out, unless their money is in a federally insured account, tough titty said the kitty who had no milk, it just sucks to be you.
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    As I said earlier, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but it would take a Constitutional Amendment to do so. Personally I believe it would be better for the country as a whole to have the initial primary, on the same day, and take the top 2 from each party, and have another primary, say 8 weeks later, and again on the same day, to whittle it down to the ones that go on to represent their respective Party.
     
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