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RFK Assassination

Discussion in 'Conspiracy Debates' started by vyo476, Dec 10, 2007.

  1. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

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    Here's an interesting one: there is significant evidence today that there was a second shooter involved in the assassination of Robert Kennedy.

    First, from CrimeLibrary:

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/assassins/kennedy/6.html

    Three eyewitnesses all confirm the presence of a woman (the same woman, as descriptions of her nose and clothing match between all three witnesses) who was, by their description, at least an acquaintance of Sirhan Sirhan, the assassin. A third person, male, is also described by two of the witnesses.

    The LAPD discounts this evidence. They never bother to explain why. Three eyewitnesses specifically remember this woman (also specifically accompanied by a male partner), two of whom saw them at times/in places where others wouldn't have had cause to remember them (thereby discounting the idea that the police sluffed her off due to a whole bunch of other people not mentioning her). Indeed, the people inside the building wouldn't have noted either of them; if they were participants in the shooting, they timed their shots to coincide with Sirhan's shots, during which time all attention was already on Sirhan (more on that in a minute). If they didn't actually do any shooting themselves there's even less of a reason for anyone on the inside to have noted them (the inside witness who did mention the woman, a waiter, only recalled her because she was attractive, but had a "funny nose," a statement which would later be corollated to one of the exterior witness' descriptions of the woman as having a pug nose).

    One of the exterior witnesses, Sandra Serrano, was adamant about having seen the woman (and her male accompaniment). Here's a partial transcript of her interrogation on the matter (the actual interrogation lasted over an hour):

    The LAPD would later officially say this interogation employed "standard tactics." Serrano was subjected to a lie detector test after the interogation, which she failed.

    The LAPD also later released a statement saying that the waiter had admitted to embellishing his story; he hadn't seen a woman in a polka dot dress with a pug nose. However, later interviews with a woman named Valerie Schulte, who was herself wearing a polka dot dress that night, revealed that she had been standing in the location the waiter had indicated (though she said she didn't know nor had spoken to Sirhan). So the waiter probably did see a woman in a polka dot dress standing where he'd said she was standing. Why, then, did he recant his statement?

    Finally, the last exterior witness, Seargant Paul Sharaga, himself a Los Angeles police officer, had his statement recanted for him by the LAPD. He himself never did so, and would years later stick by his original description of events.

    Note that the LAPD is directly responsible for all three discreditations: bullying Serrano into a nervous panic and then getting her to fail a lie detector test, releasing a statement that the waiter had embellished his story and hadn't really seen a woman in a polka dot dress standing where he'd seen her when later evidence would show that he probably did, and speaking for one of their own officers in order to bury the story of the woman in the polka dot dress.

    There are, of course, problems with these contentions. The biggest problem lies with the waiter's statement changes. If Valerie Schulte was the woman in the polka dot dress he'd seen, how could he have mentioned the "funny" nose on the woman who ran away (a defining characteristic also mentioned by Serrano)? There are a number of plausible explanations for what occured:

    1. The waiter's admission of embellishment was genuine; he only embellished on the detail of the nose. He really did see a woman in polka dot dress - Valerie Schulte.
    2. The waiter's admission of embellishment was genuine; he made the whole thing up, and Valerie Schulte's presence in the location described was a coincidence.
    3. The waiter's admission of embellishment was forced, but partially truthful; while the woman he saw did turn out to be Valerie Schulte, he was coerced into changing his story to protect another woman (the woman seen by Serrano and Seargent Sharaga). He either did embellish on the story or didn't see her clearly as she does not have the pug nose descrbied by Serrano (or, for that matter, a nose of any note at all).
    4. The waiter's admission of embellishment was forced; he saw the same woman that Serrano and Sharaga saw later, and Schulte's presence in the same location that the woman with the pug nose (a trait Schulte lacks) was a coincidence the LAPD hadn't planned for when they coerced the waiter into changing his story.

    In any case, Valerie Schulte's testimony is not the smoking gun many conspiracy theorists originally pointed it out to be. After all, if Valerie Schulte is the woman the waiter remembers, than he didn't see the woman observed by Serrano and Sharaga (scenario 1 above). Both of the conspiary theory scenarios above are predicated on unreliable information: either the waiter did lie somewhat about the nose or didn't see the nose clearly (scenario 3) or two women wearing strikingly similar dresses stood in the same place at different times and the waiter only observed one of them.

    The other two stories, however, are harder to discredit. The polygraph test in particular was a cheap trick. An hour of getting yelled at over the same issue frayed Serrano's nerves and built up a strong, subconscious emotional reaction to questions relating to that issue. When the polygraph was administered a short time later, her strong physiological reactions to questions pertaining to the woman in the polka dot dress had more to do with her recent, stressful interogation than do with whether or not she was lying. As for Sharaga, what was done speaks for itself. He never recanted his story the way the LAPD stated he did. The deicision to recant his statement came from over his head, and words were put into his mouth by the department.

    Part Two will be up shortly.
     
  2. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

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    Part Two

    To me, this is the most interesting evidence. What I posted already can be taken a number of ways. The conspiracy theorist in me looks at it and says, "the LAPD covered up the woman in the polka dot dress' involvement!" but I've learned not to give credence to that part of my brain unless the hard evidence backs up what it's saying.

    Here's the hard evidence:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy_assassination#Pruszynski_recording

    Note that the fourth expert had to work with fewer/lower quality materials and information and even wrote in his findings that more background information would have been helpful.

    So that's evidence that Sirhan Sirhan wasn't the only shooter. Here's some more evidence that he wasn't the only shooter - and in fact wasn't even the one who fired the fatal shot.

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/assassins/kennedy/5.html

    Later testing would show that the "stippling" effect observed in the powder burns found on Kennedy would have required the gun to be only two inches away. While several of the eye witnesses to the crime disagree on exactly how far away Sirhan was from Kennedy at the time of the shooting (all place him between two and five feet away), they all said he was in front of Kennedy by several feet, not two inches behind him.

    Interestingly, the idea of a second gunman initially sprouted from another apparent discrepency in the autoposy report: namely, that Kennedy was hit three times, taking a fourth bullet through his clothing that didn't touch his person, while five other people were also injured. Sirhan Sirhan carried an eight-shot revolver. Nine hits - eight shots. A criminologist with the LAPD would later demonstrate how the bullet that passed through Kennedy's clothing continued to hit another of the victims.
     
  3. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    I watched a documentry on the subject where there was an unaccounted for bullet found in the trim around a door. Thus indicating there may have been more shots fired than could have been in sirhan's revolver.
     
  4. TVoffBrainOn

    TVoffBrainOn Member

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    I find this part even more interesting.

     
  5. 7forever

    7forever Member

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  6. 7forever

    7forever Member

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  7. 7forever

    7forever Member

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    Eugene Thane Cesar: Did he do it? - Page 2 - Robert Kennedy - The Education Forum

    BRENT:I’m talking to Don Schulman. Don can you give us a half-way decent report of what happened within all this chaos?

    SCHULMAN;OK I was ..a…standing behind…a…Kennedy as he was taking his assigned route into the kitchen. A Caucasian gentleman stepped out and fired three times. The security guard hit Kennedy all three times. Mr. Kennedy slumped to the floor…they carried him away…the security guards fired back…As I saw…they shot the ….a…man who shot Kennedy…in the leg….he…a before they could get him he shot a ….it looked to me…he shot a woman…and he shot two other men.They then proceeded to carry Kennedy into the kitchen and …I don’t know how his condition is now.

    BRENT: Was he grazed or did it appear to be a direct hit? Was it very serious from what you saw?

    SCHULMAN:Well…from what I saw…it looked…fairly serious.He had …he was definitely hit three times.Things happened so quickly that…that…there was another eyewitness standing next to me and she is in shock now and very fuzzy…as I am…because it happened so quickly.

    BRENT:Right.I was about six people behind the Senator, I heard six or seven shots in succession…Now…is this the security guard firing back?

    SCHULMAN:Yes…a…the man who stepped out fired three times at Kennedy..hit him all three times….and the security guard then fired back….hitting…

    BRENT: Right.

    SCHULMAN:Hitting him, and he is in apprehension.
     
  8. 7forever

    7forever Member

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    http://rense.com/general91/sirhan.htm By Stephen Lendman 6-25-10

    "They made me believe I had murdered Robert Kennedy in cold blood and I was remorseful and ashamed. Everyone said I was guilty. They said I would get the death penalty....no matter what I said or did. They said it was an open and shut case and that I might as well give up. I just wanted to get the whole thing over with and if it meant me being dead, so be it. I didn't have anything left to live for anyway."

    A trial followed, Sirhan represented by attorney Grant Cooper, a man he called "crooked. He had mafia and CIA connections," Sirhan explaining what he knew and his mob involvement. "He was (picked) to make sure I was convicted and sent to my death, and Cooper complied because they were planning to kill him" otherwise.

    Reynolds asked him to portray what he remembered doing at the Ambassador Hotel. Sirhan stood up, swayed, his arms gently rising, looked straight ahead, then made a gun shape with his right hand, his arm parallel to the ground pretending to shoot, saying:

    "At a specific moment, and I can't remember when or why, I shot my 22 caliber pistol three times. My arms were unsteady but level with the ground. Two of the shots missed. I saw them miss. One of the shots may have bounced off him like a BB. All of a sudden people were grabbing me. They were forcing me down....Did anybody say I reached around behind and shot Robert Kennedy in the back of the head?"

    Reynolds: "Nobody."

    Sirhan: "But that's what I would've had to do" to kill him....So, what do you think of me now? Do you think I am crazy like they say?"

    Not at all, said Reynolds, Sirhan adding "I am just a man. I am a man just like you. I am trained never to allow an inmate to touch me."

    In parting, he embraced Reynolds, both of them now "secret friends in a desolate place."
     
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