Rules For Radicals

[Pandora]

Well, Lagboltz, this is a little confusing, as I started using that scale in another thread yesterday, but I used 1 as "extreme conservative" and 100 as "extreme liberal!"

Now, my self attributed "75 to 80" score would put me way to the conservative side. . .which obviously I'm not!

Well 1 is to the left of 100

so it makes more sense to start at 1 for liberal and 100 for conservative

 

[Openmind]

Well 1 is to the left of 100

so it makes more sense to start at 1 for liberal and 100 for conservative

That makes sense!

So, in that scale, I would probably be a 20 or 25.

 

[Lagboltz]

99

I am against the death penalty, that is the most liberal view I think I have. Second most would be I am for funding foster care programs and helping the truly disabled, but I honestly think most republicans are for that too. Just not people who can work but found a way to milk the system like one of my brothers have done and so many more people I know.

I feel I am an extreme conservative. It would be easier for me to list the views I have that tend to lean left than I could list the views I have that lean right. Though I really do not like the republican party any more than I like the democrat party. I dislike them for different reasons. I am a registered democrat but no one believes me

Kind of like how most liberals are upset with obama its because he is not left enough, I do not like the republican party because they are not right enough

I think if you read some of my older posts you would change your mind about me

But oddly enough, If I could pick the president.... I would pick Harold Ford Jr... Democrat from Tennessee I have wanted him for president for years and I don't think he is even in politics anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Ford,_Jr.

I looked at the site, and I can see why you can support the man and not the party.

I have heard many conservatives who want to get rid of social security, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, and a whole lot of other social programs. I agree that these programs are abused, top heavy and wasteful. But I don't know what conservatives would do to replace them. If these programs were eliminated there would be lots of sick or poor people that can't get work through age and disability and through no fault of their own. What are your ideas on what conservatives would do with this growing poor population?

Conservatives want lower taxes, or at least they don't want tax increases.

Given all this, if you controlled congress, what would you do about the huge deficit, current spending, and the current debt limit?

 

[Lagboltz]

Well, Lagboltz, this is a little confusing, as I started using that scale in another thread yesterday, but I used 1 as "extreme conservative" and 100 as "extreme liberal!"

Now, my self attributed "75 to 80" score would put me way to the conservative side. . .which obviously I'm not!

Oops, I remember your scale, but I forgot the direction. I didn't mean to usurp your definition. I also said I was around 75. Pandora's rational is good, so I guess I'm now 25.

 

[Openmind]

Oops, I remember your scale, but I forgot the direction. I didn't mean to usurp your definition. I also said I was around 75. Pandora's rational is good, so I guess I'm now 25.

Yes. . .I think Pandora used good logic. So I am very close to your own assessment . . .maybe slightly more "left" on some issues. . ..

Must be that liberal education from those former protesters "Yuppies" in UC Santa Cruz!!!!

 

[Pandora]

I looked at the site, and I can see why you can support the man and not the party.

I have heard many conservatives who want to get rid of social security, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, and a whole lot of other social programs. I agree that these programs are abused, top heavy and wasteful. But I don't know what conservatives would do to replace them. If these programs were eliminated there would be lots of sick or poor people that can't get work through age and disability and through no fault of their own. What are your ideas on what conservatives would do with this growing poor population?

Conservatives want lower taxes, or at least they don't want tax increases.

Given all this, if you controlled congress, what would you do about the huge deficit, current spending, and the current debt limit?

I bet most republicans would be ok with those programs if every effort was made to get rid of the abuse. Some will always want them gone no matter what just like some dems would want them increased abuse and all. There are fringe on both sides, we should just ignore them as best we can and do what the majority want and I think the majority would be happy if we just stopped the abuse in those programs.



I dont think I could fix the problems we have today but IF I had the chance to try here are a few things I would do.

Make really strict penalty's for anyone caught abusing the system. IE: SS, welfare exc.

If I could, I would make welfare and food stamps state run and state regulated. Most states would fix the problem I think.

I would stop all money given to foreign countries except for Mexico who we loan more than give. I would give to them with so many strings attached like they would have to use the money to employ their people and clean up the drugs and gang crap. And reform their governments corruption. Without those being dealt with... no money! I don't know any Mexican that loves the US more than Mexico but who wants to raise their kids in a place you cant get decent jobs and safe communities.

I would treat the budget just like I do at home. We got furlough days at work and that means I have 12 less paid days during the year than normal. My budget had to change. I reduced my phone to get rid of caller ID and I lowered the channels on my cable to make up for the less money coming in.

It would have been ridiculous to cut all my spending across the board. The electric company was not going to take 20 percent less money, neither was my local property tax. And my daughter wasn't going to eat 20 percent less food this year I had to pick the least important bills and take less service.

Congress should do the same. There are programs that I am sure are nice to have but not necessary. Those should be eliminated. Other programs that are important but not as important as others should be cut. and under no circumstances would I allow new spending on new programs.

WE are in such a mess, that would not solve it but we do have to start somewhere. I think it was a mistake to raise the debt ceiling without more cuts. If things get better we can argue bringing back the programs. But we have no business funding things we cannot afford.

Dont you think the income tax is silly? It punishes you for working. I have actually turned down overtime because 60 percent of it would just go to Oregon taxes and another percent would go to child care so I could do the over time. It's not worth not being with my family for such a small percent I actually get to keep. Illegals, drug dealers, prostitutes and anyone working under the table don't pay any Federal Taxes or state or local taxes, that is unfair too.

If instead we were taxed on what we buy instead of what we make, everyone would have skin in the game and we would as a nation be encouraged to save and discouraged to spend. And this way even illegals, drug dealers prostitutes would all be paying taxes. The rich would lose their loop holes everyone complains about so much and they would be paying probably 98 percent of all taxes since they eat more expensive food than most and drive more expensive cars exc. I think that would help our revenue more than the current system. And I think people would for the most part be happy.

 

[GenSeneca]

I really don't understand why the thread is titled "Rules For Radicals"

Because that's the title of the book.

 

[Lagboltz]

I found a great site for determining your political inclination. The questions are simple and multiple choice. You have to answer 53 questions (a lot) by clicking boxes. You can even display your result. Here is mine. I am mid left and slightly libertarian.

The quiz site is here.

Displaying the result like I did is a little tricky.
1. Go to the quiz site and finish answering two pages of questions.
2. Look for the code under "Post your compass to a forum or profile:"
3. Do not copy all the code. It will not work here. Just copy the part that is like:
http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/grid/11x24.gif
Your result will not have "11x24", but will have some other numbers.
4. In this forum's reply box, click the picture icon (Yellow box above with mountains.)
5. Paste the copied image link into box that asks for the URL of your image.

 

[GenSeneca]

I have heard many conservatives who want to get rid of social security, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, and a whole lot of other social programs.

Actually, most "mainstream" conservatives fully support the welfare state but, like yourself, they favor reforms to curtail the waste, fraud, and abuse of the system... Rush, Beck, Hannity, all the most popular conservatives feel this way.

Conservatives want lower taxes, or at least they don't want tax increases.

Conservatives want lower taxes in general but they also believe that the tax code has become too lopsided. Hence their likelihood of supporting a flat tax in which everyone has to pay the same % of their income - The "rich" would still pay far more in terms of actual dollar amounts but everyone, rich and poor, would have "skin in the game".

Liberals tend to support higher taxes for the "rich" while arguing in favor of lower taxes, even no taxes, for everyone else. Hence their support of an ever more Progressive tax which makes the people at the top pay ever larger shares so that an ever increasing number of people at the bottom can be exempted from paying taxes.

 

[Pandora]

I found a great site for determining your political inclination. The questions are simple and multiple choice. You have to answer 53 questions (a lot) by clicking boxes. You can even display your result. Here is mine. I am mid left and slightly libertarian.

The quiz site is here.

Displaying the result like I did is a little tricky.
1. Go to the quiz site and finish answering two pages of questions.
2. Look for the code under "Post your compass to a forum or profile:"
3. Do not copy all the code. It will not work here. Just copy the part that is like:
http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/grid/11x24.gif
Your result will not have "11x24", but will have some other numbers.
4. In this forum's reply box, click the picture icon (Yellow box above with mountains.)
5. Paste the copied image link into box that asks for the URL of your image.

http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/grid/28x25.gif

rhmm My grid didn't post. Was not so accurate anyway, a few questions that would have made me more right and more to the bottom of the screen could not be answered honestly because of the way it was worded. But the test was fun so imagine me in the far right and the bottom of the grid

 

[PLC1]

I found a great site for determining your political inclination. The questions are simple and multiple choice. You have to answer 53 questions (a lot) by clicking boxes. You can even display your result. Here is mine. I am mid left and slightly libertarian.

The quiz site is here.

Displaying the result like I did is a little tricky.
1. Go to the quiz site and finish answering two pages of questions.
2. Look for the code under "Post your compass to a forum or profile:"
3. Do not copy all the code. It will not work here. Just copy the part that is like:
http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/grid/11x24.gif
Your result will not have "11x24", but will have some other numbers.
4. In this forum's reply box, click the picture icon (Yellow box above with mountains.)
5. Paste the copied image link into box that asks for the URL of your image.

I took this quiz a couple of times and came out in the bottom left quadrant, just like you did, though nearer the bottom and not very far left. I don't remember the exact numbers.

Re: "Yuppies": The word stands for Young Urban Professionals. Somehow, I doubt than any of the '60s protestors fit into that category. Urban, they may or may not be now, professional, yes some of them are that. Young? No, not unless "young" is defined as not having to have lived through WWII and the Great Depression.

 

[Lagboltz]

I bet most republicans would be ok with those programs if every effort was made to get rid of the abuse. Some will always want them gone no matter what just like some dems would want them increased abuse and all. There are fringe on both sides, we should just ignore them as best we can and do what the majority want and I think the majority would be happy if we just stopped the abuse in those programs.

I dont think I could fix the problems we have today but IF I had the chance to try here are a few things I would do.

Make really strict penalty's for anyone caught abusing the system. IE: SS, welfare exc.

If I could, I would make welfare and food stamps state run and state regulated. Most states would fix the problem I think.

That's fair enough, but lingering problems are the graying of America, and inflation. There is also a problem with equality of state laws. Some states legalized medical marijuana and others didn't. That is not a basic human need. I think welfare is too basic for state inequalities. Some states may have zero sympathy for the poor.

I would stop all money given to foreign countries except for Mexico who we loan more than give. I would give to them with so many strings attached like they would have to use the money to employ their people and clean up the drugs and gang crap. And reform their governments corruption. Without those being dealt with... no money! I don't know any Mexican that loves the US more than Mexico but who wants to raise their kids in a place you cant get decent jobs and safe communities.

That's fair too.

I would treat the budget just like I do at home. We got furlough days at work and that means I have 12 less paid days during the year than normal. My budget had to change. I reduced my phone to get rid of caller ID and I lowered the channels on my cable to make up for the less money coming in.

It would have been ridiculous to cut all my spending across the board. The electric company was not going to take 20 percent less money, neither was my local property tax. And my daughter wasn't going to eat 20 percent less food this year I had to pick the least important bills and take less service.

Congress should do the same. There are programs that I am sure are nice to have but not necessary. Those should be eliminated. Other programs that are important but not as important as others should be cut. and under no circumstances would I allow new spending on new programs.

I agree.

WE are in such a mess, that would not solve it but we do have to start somewhere. I think it was a mistake to raise the debt ceiling without more cuts. If things get better we can argue bringing back the programs. But we have no business funding things we cannot afford.

I would have eliminated subsidies and some military spending. But that wouldn't be enough, and congress was deadlocked.

Dont you think the income tax is silly? It punishes you for working. I have actually turned down overtime because 60 percent of it would just go to Oregon taxes and another percent would go to child care so I could do the over time. It's not worth not being with my family for such a small percent I actually get to keep. Illegals, drug dealers, prostitutes and anyone working under the table don't pay any Federal Taxes or state or local taxes, that is unfair too.

If instead we were taxed on what we buy instead of what we make, everyone would have skin in the game and we would as a nation be encouraged to save and discouraged to spend. And this way even illegals, drug dealers prostitutes would all be paying taxes. The rich would lose their loop holes everyone complains about so much and they would be paying probably 98 percent of all taxes since they eat more expensive food than most and drive more expensive cars exc. I think that would help our revenue more than the current system. And I think people would for the most part be happy.

In most states food and medicine are not included in sales tax. I think this only the fair thing to do. As far as going from an income tax to a sales tax there are a lot of logistic problems that need to be solved. If there is social security how is it to be paid? If there is no SS, how are short sighted people that don't save (most of us) going to survive? There are a lot of macroeconomic problems that would have to be explored first. I would be willing to listen to a radically new revenue paradigm but it has to be convincing.

Now that being said, why are you so far to the right and I am to the left?

 

[Lagboltz]

http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/grid/28x25.gif

rhmm My grid didn't post. Was not so accurate anyway, a few questions that would have made me more right and more to the bottom of the screen could not be answered honestly because of the way it was worded. But the test was fun so imagine me in the far right and the bottom of the grid

Good enough. I can click on your image and see it. You are about as libertarian as I am. You are closer to center than I am, but of course on the other side of the graph. I don't think you are as conservative as you say you are. Don't you want to reevaluate yourself and tell people you are moderately rightwing?

When I found questions that were not worded well for me, I answered the best I could and clicked "A little" under "How much does this issue matter?" That way the answer was discounted somewhat. But at any rate I think the quiz was better than the OP.

 

[Pandora]

That's fair enough, but lingering problems are the graying of America, and inflation. There is also a problem with equality of state laws. Some states legalized medical marijuana and others didn't. That is not a basic human need. I think welfare is too basic for state inequalities. Some states may have zero sympathy for the poor.

The beauty of that is we would find out what works and what does not. With very limited federal government interference, allowing for states rights... some states would thrive some would turn into or continue (IMO) to be stink holes. People would have the right just as they do today to leave bad states and move to good ones, It would not be long before we could see what works and what does not. Badly run states would be really forced to change if they wanted any kind of population.

would have eliminated subsidies and some military spending. But that wouldn't be enough, and congress was deadlocked.

Honestly I would too but only what I thought was waste and even the military has it.

most states food and medicine are not included in sales tax. I think this only the fair thing to do. As far as going from an income tax to a sales tax there are a lot of logistic problems that need to be solved. If there is social security how is it to be paid? If there is no SS, how are short sighted people that don't save (most of us) going to survive? There are a lot of macroeconomic problems that would have to be explored first. I would be willing to listen to a radically new revenue paradigm but it has to be convincing.

SS is a really hard one, its a bad system that I don't think should have ever been started but now here we are .... I have paid into it since i was 15 years old and I know I wont get a dime out of it. So I really have no answers for that one except that my kids are screwed!

that being said, why are you so far to the right and I am to the left?

You probably picked yes to abortion and I picked no, that always seems to be what sends me over the edge on these kinds of quizzes.

 

[Pandora]

Good enough. I can click on your image and see it. You are about as libertarian as I am. You are closer to center than I am, but of course on the other side of the graph. I don't think you are as conservative as you say you are. Don't you want to reevaluate yourself and tell people you are moderately rightwing?

When I found questions that were not worded well for me, I answered the best I could and clicked "A little" under "How much does this issue matter?" That way the answer was discounted somewhat. But at any rate I think the quiz was better than the OP.

Grr I am so conservative!!! I bet if the questions were more clear I would come out more conservative than Rush Beck and Hannity put together

But Hannity is not really conservative as much as he is a republican IMO

Beck is becoming a Libertarian and I think I am too. Maybe I should say I am a conservative Libertarian ... Nah that is too much to type