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Same sex marriage

Discussion in 'House of Debates' started by XCALIDEM, Oct 17, 2008.

  1. XCALIDEM

    XCALIDEM Active Member

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  2. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Firstly, everyone who is reading this, I know this is a touchy subject, lets try and keep this on topic and without childlish name calling. :D
    This is a complex one, ultimately I think it is a state's rights issue. The feds need to leave this one to the individual states.
    So I am reluctant chime in on an issue that should be left to Californians. Whereas my home state has long passed a constitutional ban on the same sex marriage issue. I was just short of voting age then, and didnt get to chime in on that one.

    Personally I support some sort of legal, government recognized and issued license that legitamizes a relationship between two consenting adults of sound mind who are joined by a loving relationship...all spelled out concisely in the legalize that is necessary.
     
  3. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Personally I don't care what people do so long as its not rammed down my neck as being normal!
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I am with you on this scotsman

    I dont want other people telling me what I should call normal but at the same time I dont really care what other people do as long as it doesnt effect me.
     
  5. XCALIDEM

    XCALIDEM Active Member

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    I agree!! I don't care about gay dudes, as long as they don't try hitting on me...:rolleyes:

    However, the opposition commercials are saying this:



    I don't need a freaking school to teach my kids to be gay....
     
  6. n0spam4me

    n0spam4me Member

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    Marriage is only a CONTRACT enforced by the STATE
    I would prefer to have it called Civil Union and as for Marriage, if you insist on calling it Marriage so be it, its only word games.

    as for the teaching in public schools ... Parents who really care will find a way to either home school their kids or put them in private school.

    I would really recommend NOT even having PUBLIC schools at all, and let parents keep the $$$ they are taxed out of to support the schools and let it be Parental responsibility to educate your own brats.

    To address the bit about teaching kids to be GAY, not going to happen, there have been studies by shrinks that had Gays try to be straight, (didn't happen) and to also teach straights to be gay (also didn't happen) bottom line here, its either genetic (or?) but its NOT something you can teach or recruit straight people to be gay. I would like it better if there was a LOT of parental authority that could be brought to bear in any case to control the content of what is presented in public schools.
     
  7. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Well this goes with the shoving it down your throat thing and also telling us what is normal.

    I will decide for myself and my family what is normal. If everyone is doing it doesnt make something normal or right.

    I look forward to when my daughters school starts this kind of crap, its a fight im willing to have.
     
  8. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I like your idea about schools and Civil Unions

    i dont think the books and brainwashing are to make people gay but its to make people believe what they have decided is good right and normal
    or I guess re writing morality for everyone.

    I do object to that
     
  9. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

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    Anyone who believes gay civil partnership should be illegal is simply a bigot and needs to get on with their own life. What are they to gain from banning it?

    However, the issue conservatives seem to have is whether it should be called marriage or not as marriage could be defined as something strictly between a man and a woman. Ultimatley, it all seems like petty semantics are covering up possible underlying emotions about gays.
     
  10. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I think people who don’t want it legal are worried about the slippery slope

    When abortion was first made legal it was always thought to be for a rape victim or someone who might die if they carry the baby to term, or a woman who had 2 kids and got pregnant a week before her and her husband divorced, or a college student.

    but what it has become is people using abortion as birth control and even more sick twisted people waiting till they are 6 and 7 months pregnant to have the abortion even into the 8th and 9th month, And for the sickest of all reasons.

    When abortion was made legal no one thought it would come to what it has come to.


    Changing marriage to mean two same sex people, really wont work. I will be dammed if I will sit back and say ok we can change the law for this group but screw every other group. If they change marriage laws they just need to say anyone can marry any thing any time. It would be retarded to change it just for one group when there are lots of groups out there who would like it changed for them too.


    Mostly I don’t want anyone telling me what "they" think is normal, right, moral or valid. I will decide for myself and for my children. If they could stop the indoctrination I would be happy.
     
  11. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    I think it is impossible to leave it to the states on this one. That would basically mean that you would never be able to leave the state that recognizes the marriage because once you cross the border you are no longer legally recognized as married.

    I think this has to be a Federal issue because states are supposed to recognize the laws of other states (drivers licenses etc..) but with many states banning gay marriage and with some being in favor of it, it makes it unconstitutional in many cases for states that have banned it to not recognize the marriage if it took place in another state.

    By making it a Federal issue it would solve this, and also would fix the problem of someone simply going to California to get married and then just moving home, and having their home state be forced to recognize the marriage (even though that state has banned it).

    To avoid the problems listed above, I still think any action taken would need to be Federal in nature.
     
  12. n0spam4me

    n0spam4me Member

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    "i dont think the books and brainwashing are to make people gay but its to make people believe what they have decided is good right and normal
    or I guess re writing morality for everyone."

    I have a feeling that it was the intent of the people who designed the programs for public schools, to teach kids about same-sex-couples, was to teach tollerance. However that is asking too much. If a kid lives with parents who are hard-core anti-gay, I think that no ammount of teaching in the public school will change the fact that the kid will grow up with an anti-gay bias.

    I would rather see an effort to educate ALL citizens on the subject of rule of law. You see its possible for any employer/business/buyer/seller (etc...)
    to make a decission on who they are interviewing or about to do business with and if some bigot doesn't want to buy/sell, or whatever with anybody, gay, straight, black, brown, (etc...) then really there is NOTHING that the LAW can do about it, sure people get sued and all sorts of crazy things happen, but it doesn't change anyones attitude, and what the teaching in the public schools seeks to do is change attitudes but they are fighting a loosing battle. In time, maybe attitudes with change, however change will take generations to accomplish and meanwhile in the schools, they are wasting valuable time trying to do the impossible.

    My thought on this is that as long as any given grounp (bigots or whatever)
    doesn't resort to violence, or fraud, ... whatever they think, they have a right to, someoone can say, "oh, I don't do business with anyone who is not a member of the same church" ... ok, no big deal, they are limiting themselves and I have no problem with that.

    I personally would refuse to do business with someone if I knew they where an active member of a satanic cult. And I have a right to my opinion.

    You can think anything you want, and you can act in a manner that reflects your thinking to a point, as long as you do not practice violence (or fraud) against any given person or group, the law should be silent on the subject.

    Just like at some coffee shops I have seen a sign that sez
    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

    .... in God we trust, everybody else pays cash!
     
  13. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    I think it's much ado about nothing.

    Gay couples in California had the right to form "domestic partnerships" before gay marriage became legal, and would still have the right to do so should Proposition 8 pass. The only thing that would change would be the term, "marriage."

    Of course, gay couples could still say that they were "married." Who would stop them? It just wouldn't be legally true.

    So, the pro proposition 8 forces cite one case in which a teacher read a story to a class, and one case in which a lesbian teacher took her kids to her wedding, and try to make us believe that those two instances are typical of what might happen should prop 8 fail.

    And, the anti forces tell us how it is an anti discrimination proposition, despite the domestic partnership factor I cited above.

    Meanwhile, the economy is in shambles, we're in a war that never seems to end, drug abuse is rampant, illegal immigration continues unabated, the federal government keeps growing out of control, the national debt surpasses ten trillion dollars, and health care costs continue to escalate.

    Much ado about nothing.
     
  14. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

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    A slippery slope to what? Everyone turning gay? People forgetting how to have heterosexual sex and the population running out? Please enlighten me as to how society can go down the pan because of this being legalised... :confused::confused::confused:

    Thanks for that bizzare history of abortion.

    What other groups are being excluded? Why can't just gays have marriage allowed?

    I'm sure many gays feel the same way and don't want heterosexual socities rules on marriage forced onto them. They don't want YOU telling them what marriage is and what it isnt - they just want to get married.
     
  15. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

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    Well then let gays get on with doing what they want and stop complaning about it!!
     
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