Shooting at Holocaust Museum

[top gun]

Top Gun, Nazi's are socialits. What are we complaining about with obama? that he is a socialist

some liberal Jews like obama, but only God knows why.

I do not think this shooter was right wing or left wing. I think people like that are in a class of thier own. What I said was you have a better argument calling the abortionist shooter a right wing.

if you are going to insist that this Jew hater is right wing then you may as well stick every muslim terrorist in with republicans too because they share all the same family values that republicans do, they only line up with liberals on distain for the US and hate of the military

First off... the NAZI type of socialism is a Nationalistic Fascist type... which by their own admission IS TOTALLY RIGHT WING. So stop flailing around trying to make a connection that by these groups are somehow really Left leaning... because their own propaganda states they definitely are not.

Now to the Right Wing Domestic Terrorist that gunned down the security guard at the Holocaust Museum. He again by his own admission and writings was a hard RIGHT WINGER.

Now are there groups other than Right Wingers that dislike Jews... I don't know probably for some reason. But I wouldn't use Radical Islam as an example. They want their religious beliefs to be forced onto the general population and are pro-war, pro-gun, anti-choice etc.

They in their own weird way are a lot like Right Wingers themselves.

People on the Far Radical Right are always teetering on being DOMESTIC TERRORISTS. That's the risk one takes when the support the Right.

 

[Pandora]

First off... the NAZI type of socialism is a Nationalistic Fascist type... which by their own admission IS TOTALLY RIGHT WING. So stop flailing around trying to make a connection that by these groups are somehow really Left leaning... because their own propaganda states they definitely are not.

Now to the Right Wing Domestic Terrorist that gunned down the security guard at the Holocaust Museum. He again by his own admission and writings was a hard RIGHT WINGER.

Now are there groups other than Right Wingers that dislike Jews... I don't know probably for some reason. But I wouldn't use Radical Islam as an example. They want their religious beliefs to be forced onto the general population and are pro-war, pro-gun, anti-choice etc.

They in their own weird way are a lot like Right Wingers themselves.

People on the Far Radical Right are always teetering on being DOMESTIC TERRORISTS. That's the risk one takes when the support the Right.

Is it normal for a right winger to hate Fox news? or to hate both Bush's or to hate McCain and The Weekly Standard?

a self hating right winger perhaps?

 

[PLC1]

First off... the NAZI type of socialism is a Nationalistic Fascist type... which by their own admission IS TOTALLY RIGHT WING. So stop flailing around trying to make a connection that by these groups are somehow really Left leaning... because their own propaganda states they definitely are not.

So, socialism can be right wing. That's interesting.

How do you like this little syllogism?

Barack Obama is a socialist,
socialists are right wing,
therefore, Barack Obama is right wing.

Now to the Right Wing Domestic Terrorist that gunned down the security guard at the Holocaust Museum. He again by his own admission and writings was a hard RIGHT WINGER.

He claims to be a right winger. I asked this before: Who from the right is supporting this man's actions? Have you heard from any prominent "conservative" any praise for what he has done? Does he actually represent the "right" somehow?

Or, is he simply another deranged individual?

 

[top gun]

Is it normal for a right winger to hate Fox news? or to hate both Bush's or to hate McCain and The Weekly Standard?

a self hating right winger perhaps?

It's simple... he didn't think anything was RIGHT WING enough! This is what you get... he was like Right Wing on steroids.

 

[PLC1]

It's simple... he didn't think anything was RIGHT WING enough! This is what you get... he was like Right Wing on steroids.

Your saying that this nut is right wing is a whole lot like the Democrats saying that Rush Limbaugh is the voice of the Republican Party.

 

[top gun]

So, socialism can be right wing. That's interesting.

How do you like this little syllogism?

Barack Obama is a socialist,
socialists are right wing,
therefore, Barack Obama is right wing.

You're trying to pigeon hole labels that are not transferable to the current situation.

The Liberals or Progressives in America are not socialists. They do believe in some things being supported in part by taxes and hence the government plays a role. But they in general believe in capitalism. You can have a capitalist society and still have the government involved in this way on some programs.

The reason the word "socialist" is even used in regard to the Nazi Party is because they wanted everything under government military control... that sounds nothing like the Progressives in America now does it? The Nazis believed in a fascist dictatorship... again that sounds nothing like Progressives in America.

So to answer your question directly... President Obama is neither a socialist nor a Right Winger. President Obama is a Center Left Progressive that believes in capitalism while also realizing some government involvement & intervention is sometimes necessary for the overall good of the nation much like FDR did.

He claims to be a right winger. I asked this before: Who from the right is supporting this man's actions? Have you heard from any prominent "conservative" any praise for what he has done? Does he actually represent the "right" somehow?

Or, is he simply another deranged individual?

He had several connections besides leading his own group. More detail will be coming out soon.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

its realy sad when people cant even figure out that Nazi's are not leftist....

 

[PLC1]

You're trying to pigeon hole labels that are not transferable to the current situation.
The Liberals or Progressives in America are not socialists. They do believe in some things being supported in part by taxes and hence the government plays a role. But they in general believe in capitalism. You can have a capitalist society and still have the government involved in this way on some programs.

Correct. The real debate is over just how much government involvement is too much.

The reason the word "socialist" is even used in regard to the Nazi Party is because they wanted everything under government military control... that sounds nothing like the Progressives in America now does it? The Nazis believed in a fascist dictatorship... again that sounds nothing like Progressives in America.

That doesn't make them either left or right. It makes them authoritarian, as opposed to libertarian.

There are some planks in both the liberal and the conservative platforms that are authoritarian.

So to answer your question directly... President Obama is neither a socialist nor a Right Winger. President Obama is a Center Left Progressive that believes in capitalism while also realizing some government involvement & intervention is sometimes necessary for the overall good of the nation much like FDR did.

Correct again.

He does believe in a whole lot of government involvement, a lot more than most people do.

Which is why he is being called a socialist. He is not a socialist, but a statist, as was his predecessor. He is a leftist, or a liberal if you prefer, in the sense that he believes in big powerful and expensive government.



One more time, back to the crazy who killed a guard at the holocaust museum:

Who from the right is supporting this man's actions? Have you heard from any prominent "conservative" any praise for what he has done? Does he actually represent the "right" somehow?

Or, is he simply another deranged individual?

 

[Bunz]

Just an update for everyone, while I was assuming the shooter was dead or on the verge of death, it appears he will survive to face charges.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/13/museum.shooting.suspect/index.html

Looks like federal charges for murder, and possibly a hate crime. I found this to be an interesting part of the story in bold. I think it throws any real placement on a normal political scale out of the window. This man is twisted.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The man charged with killing a security officer at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum is expected to survive his subsequent shooting by other security officers, the FBI said in a statement released Saturday.


Shooting suspect James von Brunn is hospitalized in critical condition after being shot by security officers.

1 of 3 more photos » The statement was based on a Thursday court session in which a public defender was appointed for James von Brunn, charged with first-degree murder in the death of Stephen Tyrone Johns, 39, a security officer who police say opened a museum door Wednesday for the 88-year-old reputed white supremacist.

"Defendant was not present in court because he is still in the hospital," FBI Supervisory Special Agent Katherine Schweit said in the written statement. "Government told the court that the defendant was in critical, but stable, condition with an expectation of survival."

Von Brunn was charged Thursday with a federal count of murder and killing while in possession of a firearm in a federal facility.

Authorities said von Brunn shot Johns with a rifle at the entrance to the Washington museum after Johns had opened the door for him. Other security guards then shot von Brunn, authorities said.

Johns and von Brunn were taken to a hospital, and Johns died later Wednesday. The FBI said police were investigating whether the killing of Johns, who was black, might be considered a hate crime.

Rifle used in shooting too old to trace, official says

Obama 'created by Jews,' von Braunn wrote
According to court records, investigators found a handwritten message in a notebook in von Brunn's car. The note said the "Holocaust is a lie" and that President Obama "was created by Jews," according to an FBI affidavit.

"Obama does what Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media. The First Amendment is abrogated -- henceforth," the message said, according to the affidavit.


At the end of the writings, according to the affidavit, was the signature: James W. von Brunn.

Von Brunn, of Maryland, had a Web site called "The Holy Western Empire" on which he promoted his book, "Kill the Best Gentiles." The book called the Holocaust a hoax and claimed the Jewish-led "Illuminati" and Jewish figures such as Sigmund Freud and Karl Marx worked "to destroy Western civilization and the Aryan nation that created it."

Von Brunn served six years in prison for trying in 1981 to kidnap Federal Reserve Board members because of high interest rates. He blamed his prison term on a "Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys" and "a Jew judge," he said on his Web site.

 

[Pandora]

"Obama does what Jew owners tell him to do.
Obama 'created by Jews,' von Braunn wrote

Those quotes by him sound like Rev. Wright in a recent interview.

obama's pastor said them Jews wont let him talk to obama till he is a lame duck or after his term is over.

I will never understand the hate towards Jewish people!

 

[top gun]

Your saying that this nut is right wing is a whole lot like the Democrats saying that Rush Limbaugh is the voice of the Republican Party.

I'm saying if Druggie Limbaugh lost about 200 pounds and had a gun at the Holocaust Museum he could actually be James von Brunn.

 

[top gun]

Correct. The real debate is over just how much government involvement is too much.

Correct. And having "some" programs that help a group or the general public does not make a country a socialist country nor a person a socialist.

That doesn't make them either left or right. It makes them authoritarian, as opposed to libertarian.
There are some planks in both the liberal and the conservative platforms that are authoritarian.

This is the reality is it not? Today all the KKK, Nazi & skinhead type groups in the US if they vote, vote for the RIGHT WING candidates. In fact I know for a fact there was even a direct link on one KKK groups website funneling money to Ron Paul, he even commented on it. And this is repeated over & over again with other "Conservative" candidates.

This is the US connection of which I speak.

Correct again.

He does believe in a whole lot of government involvement, a lot more than most people do.

Which is why he is being called a socialist. He is not a socialist, but a statist, as was his predecessor. He is a leftist, or a liberal if you prefer, in the sense that he believes in big powerful and expensive government.

The fact is the socialist label is simply by definition inaccurate. And if you bring his predecessor in as the same as if he was a leftist or liberal then you're really missing the overall meanings here.

There are a lot of different things that make someone more Liberal or Conservative. It's not a black & white distinction. There are fiscal, military & social considerations to name just a few. It's a sliding scale. George Bush was Right of Center overall... President Obama is a Center Left President.

I greatly prefer Center Left. I don't like the extremes on either side, I see dangers... but if FORCED to pick one it wouldn't be the Right.

One more time, back to the crazy who killed a guard at the holocaust museum:

Who from the right is supporting this man's actions? Have you heard from any prominent "conservative" any praise for what he has done? Does he actually represent the "right" somehow?

Or, is he simply another deranged individual?

I've seen no politician or talk show host praise this man... which is to be expected.

I have seen evidence of the Radical Right Wing groups he was personally involved with.

I know the there have been several well known Radical Right anti-choice group members praising what he's done as they have other killings.

More will come out... wait and see.

 

[PLC1]

Correct. And having "some" programs that help a group or the general public does not make a country a socialist country nor a person a socialist.



This is the reality is it not? Today all the KKK, Nazi & skinhead type groups in the US if they vote, vote for the RIGHT WING candidates. In fact I know for a fact there was even a direct link on one KKK groups website funneling money to Ron Paul, he even commented on it. And this is repeated over & over again with other "Conservative" candidates.

This is the US connection of which I speak.

True, but conversely, do the "right wing" candidates support the KKK, the Nazi and skinhead type groups? The conservative candidates are not the KKK or the skinheads.

Not any more than Jeremiah Wright or Jim Ayres are Barack Obama.

The fact is the socialist label is simply by definition inaccurate. And if you bring his predecessor in as the same as if he was a leftist or liberal then you're really missing the overall meanings here.

There are a lot of different things that make someone more Liberal or Conservative. It's not a black & white distinction. There are fiscal, military & social considerations to name just a few. It's a sliding scale. George Bush was Right of Center overall... President Obama is a Center Left President.

There really is no unified "left" or "right". What you're listing is a whole lot of unrelated issues. The issue here is the scope, the expense, the size of the federal bureaucracy. On that issue, there is little difference between the economic policies of Bush II and Obama.

There is no sliding scale. There are many unrelated issues.

I greatly prefer Center Left. I don't like the extremes on either side, I see dangers... but if FORCED to pick one it wouldn't be the Right.

I've seen no politician or talk show host praise this man... which is to be expected.

It is to be expected because no one supports this nutjob, except perhaps other crazies. He doesn't represent the right wing any more than Ayres or Wright represent the left.

I have seen evidence of the Radical Right Wing groups he was personally involved with.

I know the there have been several well known Radical Right anti-choice group members praising what he's done as they have other killings.

More will come out... wait and see.

Well, when the conservative voices in this country come out in praise of either killer, then let us know.

Until then, I will continue to state that the crazies don't represent the "right" or the "left."

 

[Pandora]

I'm saying if Druggie Limbaugh lost about 200 pounds and had a gun at the Holocaust Museum he could actually be James von Brunn.

But druggie limbaugh loves Israel and Jewish people unlike your druggie prez. Your druggie prez spent 20 years listening to an anti semetic pastor who hates Jews.

 

[top gun]

True, but conversely, do the "right wing" candidates support the KKK, the Nazi and skinhead type groups? The conservative candidates are not the KKK or the skinheads.

Not any more than Jeremiah Wright or Jim Ayres are Barack Obama.

Come on my friend... These are entire organized groups that support the Conservatives... not a couple random individuals.

And the case with Holocaust Museum killer is he was an active participant in these hate groups that support Conservative candidates.

I'm not saying that the Republican Party recruited this nutbag. I'm simply saying he WAS a Right Winger.

There really is no unified "left" or "right". What you're listing is a whole lot of unrelated issues. The issue here is the scope, the expense, the size of the federal bureaucracy. On that issue, there is little difference between the economic policies of Bush II and Obama.

There is no sliding scale. There are many unrelated issues.

The issues are more than the scope & expense of government. There are hard Lefties that are hard Left just about the environment but think government spending is too much. There are Hard Righties that hate abortion but think a lot more should be spent on social programs.

It's a combination of one's determination of overall importance of both fiscal & social needs & circumstances that creates that sliding scale as to just where someone is Left or Right in their voting philosophy.

It is to be expected because no one supports this nutjob, except perhaps other crazies. He doesn't represent the right wing any more than Ayres or Wright represent the left.

Well, when the conservative voices in this country come out in praise of either killer, then let us know.

Until then, I will continue to state that the crazies don't represent the "right" or the "left."

Well I think it's reasonable to assume people would distance themselves NOW from this killer. My point being that he was a welcomed as part of many undeniably RIGHT WING groups.

It's a lot like the Dr. Killer assassination. No, Operation Rescue didn't physically put the gun in his hand and drive him to do the killing. And all except the most radical will NOW say they oppose killing.

But they were right there stirring the cauldron and whipping up the emotions in a way that leads to these types of tragedies.

Bottom line: The Far reaches of the Radical Right are Jew haters. And one of their disciples decided it was time to start killing.

I'll be more than willing to do this. Starting today let's keep track of how many people Reverend Wright or Bill Ayers physically harm or kill and compare that to the KKK, Nazis, Aryan Nation & skinheads etc. The Far Right wins the who's more dangerous game hands down.

Now as to not get too heavy... a little comedic insight...