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Should hate crime laws be expanded?

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by PLC1, May 5, 2009.

  1. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    House approves expanded hate crime law

    A violent crime perpetrated due to greed, lust, or whatever is less serious than one motivated by hatred.

    Why is that?:confused:
     
  2. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I'm going to stick my neck out here and ask a question....... why is this necessary?

    "Hate crimes motivated by race, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, and identity or disability not only injure individual victims, but also terrorize entire segments of our population and tear at our nation's social fabric," Hoyer said.

    "I urge members on both sides of the aisle to act on this important civil rights issue by passing this legislation to protect all of our citizens from violent acts of intolerance," Obama said in a statement before the vote.


    According to the FBI their latest figures.......

    Total Incidents 7,624
    Total Offenses 9,006
    Total Offenders 6,965

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/downloadablepdfs/07hcpressrel.pdf
    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/victims.htm

    2007 are the latest available figures from the FBI. I assume this legislation has been based on FBI stats since all states are supposed to inform the FBI of all hate crime incidents, thus politicians will be lookling at these as being the authoritative figures? So the total population of the US is over 300 million and there have been 7,600 offences...........If so this legislation is a load of rubbish and just window dressing designed to appease lobbists and special interest groups - as I said I'm sticking my neck out.
     
    Charles Franklin likes this.
  3. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    It is all ridiculous. Murder is murder regardless of if the person murdered was killed because they were gay or black or whatever. We already have laws on the books to handle these cases. This is a useless bill.
     
  4. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    Crimes motivated by greed also terrorize entire segments of our population and tear at our nation's social fabric. the only difference is that the segment affected by crimes of greed is the segment that has something worth stealing. If there were no crimes of greed we would not need locks or passwords or safes or most lawyers, on and on and on.

    But you can't legislate greed any more than you can legislate hate. What can be legislated is murder and theft.
     
  5. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    they added Pedophilia to the group of protected people. Even when the republicans asked for a vote to take Pedophilia out, the dems refused.

    When the republicans tried to put servicemen and women in some sick dem woman went off on him and was insulted that he felt the servicemen and women should be protected.

    hate crime laws have always been stupid, but now they are disgusting.

    next we will give special laws and rules to people into necrophilia and beastiality
     
  6. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    http://www.geocities.com/alt_politics/

    turns out I found the first page listed as missing, but may take some time to get it up...till then here is the rest os something I wrote some time back on this
     
  7. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    "they"
    "the dems"
    "some sick dem woman"

    Who are these people?

    Are you saying that all of the Democrats in Congress favor pedophiles over servicemen?

    Or, are there some stupid people in Congress that favor pedophiles over servicemen?

    Well, we know that there are stupid people in Congress. Stupid voters put them there.
     
  8. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    The female dem who got all over the male republican for wanting servicemen and women to be protected in the hate crime laws I dont know, I can look it up. I listened to the clip this afternoon on Lars Larson but was not familiar with the people arguing.

    As for the voting to put pendophelia in the hate crime law, there was a vote and the clip showed the dems voting not to take it out.

    again, Ill try and find the clip for you.
     
  9. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Here is one video, Ill look for more information




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V3F80r3h7Y&feature=player_embedded>


    you know, even after seeing the video and not just hearing it, I still cant tell you who the woman was who got her panties in a bunch for the man wanting to add military to the hate crimes, I have never seen her before, and I already cant remember the name of the republican who wanted it.

    The clip isnt working but you can click the link to the website and see it.

    The republican male asked to amend the bill to exclude pedophiles the dems voted not to amend the bill to exclude pedophiles. I need to find the bill because necrophilia might be protected now too and that is strange.

    The same republican man asked to amend the bill to add service men and women because there are cases of them being spit on, threatened, and attacked.. the woman went livid and refused and was basicly insulted that he even asked.

    Apparently the republicans also tried to add pregnant women and the elderly to the list but the dems refused to amend it for that either.
     
  10. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Here is the vote count.

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll223.xml

    FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 223
    (Democrats in roman; Republicans in italic; Independents underlined)

    H R 1913 RECORDED VOTE 29-Apr-2009 4:55 PM
    QUESTION: On Passage
    BILL TITLE: Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act


    Ayes Noes PRES NV
    Democratic 231 17 8
    Republican 18 158 2
    Independent

    TOTALS 249 175 10




    ---- AYES 249 ---

    Abercrombie
    Ackerman
    Adler (NJ)
    Altmire
    Andrews
    Arcuri
    Baca
    Baird
    Baldwin
    Barrow
    Bean
    Becerra
    Berkley
    Berman
    Biggert
    Bishop (GA)
    Bishop (NY)
    Blumenauer
    Boccieri
    Bono Mack
    Boswell
    Boucher
    Boyd
    Brady (PA)
    Braley (IA)
    Brown, Corrine
    Cao
    Capps
    Capuano
    Cardoza
    Carnahan
    Carson (IN)
    Cassidy
    Castle
    Castor (FL)
    Chandler
    Clarke
    Clay
    Cleaver
    Clyburn
    Coffman (CO)
    Cohen
    Connolly (VA)
    Conyers
    Cooper
    Costa
    Costello
    Courtney
    Crowley
    Cuellar
    Cummings
    Dahlkemper
    Davis (CA)
    Davis (IL)
    DeFazio
    DeGette
    Delahunt
    DeLauro
    Dent
    Diaz-Balart, L.
    Diaz-Balart, M.
    Dicks
    Dingell
    Doggett
    Doyle
    Driehaus
    Edwards (MD)
    Edwards (TX)
    Ellison
    Engel
    Eshoo
    Etheridge
    Farr
    Fattah
    Filner
    Foster
    Frank (MA)
    Frelinghuysen
    Fudge
    Gerlach
    Giffords
    Gonzalez
    Grayson
    Green, Al
    Green, Gene
    Grijalva
    Gutierrez
    Hall (NY)
    Halvorson
    Hare
    Harman
    Hastings (FL)
    Heinrich
    Herseth Sandlin
    Higgins
    Hill
    Himes
    Hinchey
    Hinojosa
    Hirono
    Hodes
    Holden
    Holt
    Honda
    Hoyer
    Inslee
    Israel
    Jackson (IL)
    Jackson-Lee (TX)
    Johnson (GA)
    Johnson, E. B.
    Kagen
    Kanjorski
    Kaptur
    Kennedy
    Kildee
    Kilpatrick (MI)
    Kilroy
    Kind
    Kirk
    Kirkpatrick (AZ)
    Kissell
    Klein (FL)
    Kosmas
    Kratovil
    Kucinich
    Lance
    Langevin
    Larsen (WA)
    Larson (CT)
    Lee (CA)
    Levin
    Lewis (GA)
    Lipinski
    LoBiondo
    Loebsack
    Lofgren, Zoe
    Lowey
    Luján
    Lynch
    Maffei
    Maloney
    Markey (CO)
    Markey (MA)
    Marshall
    Massa
    Matheson
    Matsui
    McCarthy (NY)
    McCollum
    McDermott
    McGovern
    McMahon
    McNerney
    Meek (FL)
    Meeks (NY)
    Michaud
    Miller (NC)
    Minnick
    Mitchell
    Mollohan
    Moore (KS)
    Moore (WI)
    Moran (VA)
    Murphy (CT)
    Murphy (NY)
    Murphy, Patrick
    Nadler (NY)
    Napolitano
    Neal (MA)
    Nye
    Oberstar
    Obey
    Olver
    Ortiz
    Pallone
    Pascrell
    Pastor (AZ)
    Payne
    Pelosi
    Perlmutter
    Peters
    Pingree (ME)
    Platts
    Polis (CO)
    Pomeroy
    Price (NC)
    Quigley
    Rahall
    Rangel
    Reichert
    Reyes
    Richardson
    Rodriguez
    Ros-Lehtinen
    Rothman (NJ)
    Roybal-Allard
    Rush
    Ryan (OH)
    Salazar
    Sánchez, Linda T.
    Sanchez, Loretta
    Sarbanes
    Schakowsky
    Schauer
    Schiff
    Schrader
    Schwartz
    Scott (GA)
    Scott (VA)
    Serrano
    Sestak
    Shea-Porter
    Sherman
    Sires
    Skelton
    Slaughter
    Smith (WA)
    Snyder
    Space
    Speier
    Spratt
    Stupak
    Sutton
    Tauscher
    Thompson (CA)
    Thompson (MS)
    Tierney
    Titus
    Tonko
    Towns
    Tsongas
    Van Hollen
    Velázquez
    Visclosky
    Walden
    Walz
    Wasserman Schultz
    Waters
    Watson
    Watt
    Waxman
    Weiner
    Welch
    Wexler
    Wilson (OH)
    Woolsey
    Wu
    Yarmuth



    ---- NOES 175 ---

    Aderholt
    Akin
    Alexander
    Austria
    Bachmann
    Bachus
    Barrett (SC)
    Bartlett
    Barton (TX)
    Bilbray
    Bilirakis
    Bishop (UT)
    Blackburn
    Blunt
    Boehner
    Bonner
    Boozman
    Boren
    Boustany
    Brady (TX)
    Bright
    Broun (GA)
    Brown (SC)
    Brown-Waite, Ginny
    Buchanan
    Burton (IN)
    Buyer
    Calvert
    Camp
    Campbell
    Cantor
    Capito
    Carney
    Carter
    Chaffetz
    Childers
    Coble
    Cole
    Conaway
    Crenshaw
    Culberson
    Davis (AL)
    Davis (KY)
    Davis (TN)
    Deal (GA)
    Donnelly (IN)
    Dreier
    Duncan
    Ehlers
    Ellsworth
    Emerson
    Fallin
    Flake
    Fleming
    Forbes
    Fortenberry
    Foxx
    Franks (AZ)
    Gallegly
    Garrett (NJ)
    Gingrey (GA)
    Gohmert
    Goodlatte
    Gordon (TN)
    Graves
    Griffith
    Guthrie
    Hall (TX)
    Harper
    Hastings (WA)
    Heller
    Hensarling
    Herger
    Hoekstra
    Hunter
    Inglis
    Issa
    Jenkins
    Johnson (IL)
    Johnson, Sam
    Jones
    Jordan (OH)
    King (IA)
    King (NY)
    Kingston
    Kline (MN)
    Lamborn
    Latham
    LaTourette
    Latta
    Lee (NY)
    Lewis (CA)
    Linder
    Lucas
    Luetkemeyer
    Lummis
    Lungren, Daniel E.
    Mack
    Manzullo
    Marchant
    McCarthy (CA)
    McCaul
    McClintock
    McCotter
    McHenry
    McHugh
    McIntyre
    McKeon
    McMorris Rodgers
    Melancon
    Mica
    Miller (FL)
    Miller (MI)
    Miller, Gary
    Moran (KS)
    Murphy, Tim
    Myrick
    Neugebauer
    Nunes
    Olson
    Paul
    Paulsen
    Pence
    Peterson
    Petri
    Pitts
    Poe (TX)
    Posey
    Price (GA)
    Putnam
    Radanovich
    Rehberg
    Roe (TN)
    Rogers (AL)
    Rogers (KY)
    Rogers (MI)
    Rohrabacher
    Rooney
    Roskam
    Ross
    Royce
    Ryan (WI)
    Scalise
    Schmidt
    Schock
    Sensenbrenner
    Sessions
    Shadegg
    Shimkus
    Shuler
    Shuster
    Simpson
    Smith (NE)
    Smith (NJ)
    Smith (TX)
    Souder
    Stearns
    Sullivan
    Tanner
    Taylor
    Terry
    Thompson (PA)
    Thornberry
    Tiahrt
    Tiberi
    Turner
    Upton
    Wamp
    Westmoreland
    Whitfield
    Wilson (SC)
    Wittman
    Wolf
    Young (AK)
    Young (FL)



    ---- NOT VOTING 10 ---

    Berry
    Burgess
    Butterfield
    Granger
    Miller, George
    Murtha
    Perriello
    Ruppersberger
    Stark
    Teague
     
  11. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Posted by Pandora:

    The woman was who got her panties in a bunch was Debbie Wasserman Schultz. No doubt, she is the "sick dem woman" referred to as well. You can hear her make the pitch for hate crimes on her web site here.

    Interestingly enough, she starts her speech by saying, "It seems to me it is the category of individuals who are affected" that determines whether we are for hate crimes legislation.

    Yes, it does seem that it is the category of individuals she is concerned about, doesn't it?

    And, it does appear that it was the Democrats who were in favor of the "hate crime" legislation, while Republicans voted against it.

    I think the Republicans are right this time around: We don't need hate crimes legislation, and especially don't need it expanded.

    Do pedophiles need protection? Well, if one were to molest one of my grandchildren, and I were able to get him one on one, yes indeed, he would need protection. I might need a good lawyer afterward, if I got caught that is.

    Do soldiers need protection from hate crimes? That one is debatable. I don't believe we need hate crimes laws, but, if we have them, then they should cover everyone. no exceptions, even that pedophile whose body I just dumped in the river. (in my imagination, of course)

    I think you pegged it right this time despite some rather vague references taken from a right wing blog: It was the Democrats who voted for this nonsensical bill, and the Republicans who wanted to exclude pedophiles and include soldiers, but wound up voting against it.
     
  12. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Oh Gosh we agree again. I also do not think we need hate crimes laws. Everyone should be equal under the law. A man throwing a brick in my window should be charged exactly the same as if he threw a brick in my homosexual friend’s window.

    but.... if they insist on having hate crimes laws and insist on expanding them then I think they could have taken that opportunity to amend the bill and take out pedophile and put in military service men and women.
     
  13. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that the pedophiles have been systematically targeted by congress. So if they need any protection it is mostly from congress.
     
  14. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Rapists, murderers, and other assorted criminals have also been systematically targeted by congress. Does that mean they need protection also?
     
  15. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    While this is not the 'norm' but some other 'NON CLEAR HEADED ADULTS' have on ocassion tried to utilize the "hate crime hype" to get out of their responsibility:

    Olathe Daily News {circa 1990} A couple was hit by a 'hate crime' of someone spray painting racial slurs on their house! Ya, well as it turns out the 'couple' did it to the own house in an attempt to get out of their rental agreement! But it was all over the front page of the paper, it stirred up quite a lot of 'letter to the Editors' about how middle America were just a bunch of red-neck-Card-Carrying-Members-of-the-KKK. And then when the truth finally came out it was on Page 4!

    And how do I know about the 'truth' behind all of that: well it seems that the couple had applied and were hired as sister & brother for work at the City of Olathe {where I was employed} and when the story broke they were both working for the same department and that was against City policy. JEEZ...not bright, not at all. We don't need to rename any laws for the benefit of heinous crimes...we just need to tighten up the penalities for those 'heinous' acts! IMO
     
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