Should obama fire McChrystal?

[pocketfullofshells]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/
http://www.factcheck.org/bushs_16_words_on_iraq_uranium.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp

outside the simple fact I knew that the document was a fake when Bush talked about it, thus hard to figure out how he did not know....2nd...I did not say anything about the yellowcake did I? I did not even say he lied....I said we found none...so nothing you just posted means anything to what I just said.

also you ignored the main point, that you can' act like that to Superiors in the Military. ALso you can't run a COIN operation while you sit and make fun of and attack those who have to do the biggest part of making it work...the politics on teh ground of gaining the support of the people...He got fired for good cause, and he knew he had good cause to be fired...thats why he went ready to resign. Thats why his own supporters said it was a firing offense....This has nothing to do with thick or thin skin ( your one to talk about thin skin I should add)

 

[Pandora]

outside the simple fact I knew that the document was a fake when Bush talked about it, thus hard to figure out how he did not know....2nd...I did not say anything about the yellowcake did I? I did not even say he lied....I said we found none...so nothing you just posted means anything to what I just said.

also you ignored the main point, that you can' act like that to Superiors in the Military. ALso you can't run a COIN operation while you sit and make fun of and attack those who have to do the biggest part of making it work...the politics on teh ground of gaining the support of the people...He got fired for good cause, and he knew he had good cause to be fired...thats why he went ready to resign. Thats why his own supporters said it was a firing offense....This has nothing to do with thick or thin skin ( your one to talk about thin skin I should add)

You had personal information that the document was fake even though it turned out that Iraq did have 55 metric tons of yellowcake uranium after all? Bush really got lucky didn't he. Actually Joe Wilson is the lucky one, he should be in prison for such a lie but instead he is loved and adored by the left. I wonder if you personally knew that Dan Rather (not tell the truth) had fake documents too?

I do not disagree that obama had the right to fire General McChrystal I just do not think it was the right thing to do. Generals and privates should have a right to speak their minds, what is the point in fighting for freedom if you do not personally have any. We are better served if the military has a voice.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You had personal information that the document was fake even though it turned out that Iraq did have 55 metric tons of yellowcake uranium after all? Bush really got lucky didn't he. Actually Joe Wilson is the lucky one, he should be in prison for such a lie but instead he is loved and adored by the left. I wonder if you personally knew that Dan Rather (not tell the truth) had fake documents too?

I do not disagree that obama had the right to fire General McChrystal I just do not think it was the right thing to do. Generals and privates should have a right to speak their minds, what is the point in fighting for freedom if you do not personally have any. We are better served if the military has a voice.

we knew they had yellow cake, the issue was not if Iraq had it, it always had it...it was that it was trying to get more...it was not, and the document used as proof was fake, and evryone knew it...

also if you want to be able to speak your mind...don't join the military....its not what its there for. a grunt still going threw basic knows that...You don't get that right, because that right in the military...is what gets alot of people killed questioning and 2nd guessing.

also before you start calling Wilson a lier and talking about jail...you really should have a clue what your talking about first...and you don't.

 

[Pandora]

we knew they had yellow cake, the issue was not if Iraq had it, it always had it...it was that it was trying to get more...it was not, and the document used as proof was fake, and evryone knew it...

also if you want to be able to speak your mind...don't join the military....its not what its there for. a grunt still going threw basic knows that...You don't get that right, because that right in the military...is what gets alot of people killed questioning and 2nd guessing.

also before you start calling Wilson a lier and talking about jail...you really should have a clue what your talking about first...and you don't.

Yeah cuz 55 metric tons is just not enough...


both the factcheck and snopes went into great detail about wilson and that he was not being honest when calling President Bush a liar.


Funny you are ok with him calling President Bush a liar even though after facts are checked he is proven wrong but you take issue with me calling wilson a liar for lying about President Bush after reading the factchecks about the topic.

Typical!


As much as you hate the fact people can and do have opinions that differ from your own, we still will have them. As I have said a few times now that I know the rules about speaking your mind in the military, I still believe that they should have the rights of other Americans especially since they are the ones fighting and risking their lives to make sure we keep those rights.

 

[dahermit]

You will be waiting a long time I never claimed to be able to enlighten you.

Something I find interesting about your post though is if you change young woman to young man you could be talking about obama just as much as you are talking about me except I know better than to fire a very competent General for hurting my feelings.

Obama does not rely on himself to make military decisions. He has access to advisors with more than adequate resources to make the correct decisions. Obama is intelligent enough to and consult them on military issues. It is very likely that his advisors told him that the general had to go.

The issue was not one of "hurting his feelings". It was one of violating military protocol of the chain of command and the possible effects of not responding to it.

No one questioned MacArthur's competence either and Harry Truman was vilified for firing him. That is, until years later when emotions cooled and it was seen how far out of line MacArthur was and the danger he caused.

We keep explaining it to you and you keep up with the same rhetoric.

 

[Pandora]

Obama does not rely on himself to make military decisions. He has access to advisors with more than adequate resources to make the correct decisions. Obama is intelligent enough to and consult them on military issues. It is very likely that his advisors told him that the general had to go.

The issue was not one of "hurting his feelings". It was one of violating military protocol of the chain of command and the possible effects of not responding to it.

No one questioned MacArthur's competence either and Harry Truman was vilified for firing him. That is, until years later when emotions cooled and it was seen how far out of line MacArthur was and the danger he caused.

We keep explaining it to you and you keep up with the same rhetoric.

I still have not had a chance to look into the MacArthur/Truman case, I may change my mind after that. About obama listening to advisors, I think he does just not military ones, though he made a point (after a month or more) to look like he was listening.

I am ok with him firing McChrystal, If I were McChrystal I would not want to be running a war that is doomed to fail either. I am more in the line of thought he knew this could and would get him fired so he said it to get out of having to run a backwards war.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I still have not had a chance to look into the MacArthur/Truman case, I may change my mind after that. About obama listening to advisors, I think he does just not military ones, though he made a point (after a month or more) to look like he was listening.

I am ok with him firing McChrystal, If I were McChrystal I would not want to be running a war that is doomed to fail either. I am more in the line of thought he knew this could and would get him fired so he said it to get out of having to run a backwards war.

its good to know you, gipper and the rest of the right...have no hope for this war...yet if liberals said this about a war, you would cry they hate America and don't support the troops...

And in the chance it does fail, of course you will Blame Obama not Bush...the one who started it, and ran it for 7 years...the most important ones for success..being the first few

 

[Gipper]

its good to know you, gipper and the rest of the right...have no hope for this war...yet if liberals said this about a war, you would cry they hate America and don't support the troops...

And in the chance it does fail, of course you will Blame Obama not Bush...the one who started it, and ran it for 7 years...the most important ones for success..being the first few

Wrong again pocketpool. Many conservatives myself included saw no need to continue a major presence in Afghan once we had kicked out the Taliban. However, we do need a presence there to prevent the nation from falling back into the hands of those subhumans. Just not a major presence.

BO is playing politics with the war. He knows if we leave and the place reverts into terrible violence, he gets the blame. So, he keeps our troops there to die so that no political damage is done to him. Most self serving and cowardly.

Were you for the war under Bush?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Wrong again pocketpool. Many conservatives myself included saw no need to continue a major presence in Afghan once we had kicked out the Taliban. However, we do need a presence there to prevent the nation from falling back into the hands of those subhumans. Just not a major presence.

BO is playing politics with the war. He knows if we leave and the place reverts into terrible violence, he gets the blame. So, he keeps our troops there to die so that no political damage is done to him. Most self serving and cowardly.

Were you for the war under Bush?

aka you want cannon fodder to get shot at but have no offense...basically US troops for the Taliban to use to recruit against and support and kill...and of course...you may have noticed...but the Taliban is not kicked out. In fact thanks to Bush taking his eye off the ball...they have gained quite a bit of power again...

as for Obama playing politics....you mean by actually finishing the job set forth when the war started?

and Yes I supported this war from the start. and I still support it, unlike you who wants to run home with your tail between your legs so Afganstian can revert to what it was before, thus wasting evrything we did

 

[Pandora]

its good to know you, gipper and the rest of the right...have no hope for this war...yet if liberals said this about a war, you would cry they hate America and don't support the troops...

And in the chance it does fail, of course you will Blame Obama not Bush...the one who started it, and ran it for 7 years...the most important ones for success..being the first few

When I start saying things like our troops are terrorizing women and children in the dead of night like John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) or when I start saying things like our troops are doing nothing more than carpet bombing villages like your fearless leader the community organizer, then you can call me any bad thing you want and I will deserve it.

It does not look very hopeful in Afghanistan. When you have to worry more about giving miranda rights to men who are trying to kill you and you cant shoot them even if they have been shooting at you but stopped. The 'Rules of Engagement' keep our guys hands tied behind their backs. And the terrorists are using these rules against us every step of the way. I cannot really blame Bush for the 'Rules of Engagement' or the miranda rights now can I? Since it is your fearless leader who put them in. But rest assured that I am confident you would find a way

 

[Pandora]

McChrystal said today he is going to retire, I hope he takes up politics. Perhaps he could run for president Would it be legal for him to give the dirt on obama and the things behind the scene that we do not know about after retiring?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

When I start saying things like our troops are terrorizing women and children in the dead of night like John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) or when I start saying things like our troops are doing nothing more than carpet bombing villages like your fearless leader the community organizer, then you can call me any bad thing you want and I will deserve it.

It does not look very hopeful in Afghanistan. When you have to worry more about giving miranda rights to men who are trying to kill you and you cant shoot them even if they have been shooting at you but stopped. The 'Rules of Engagement' keep our guys hands tied behind their backs. And the terrorists are using these rules against us every step of the way. I cannot really blame Bush for the 'Rules of Engagement' or the miranda rights now can I? Since it is your fearless leader who put them in. But rest assured that I am confident you would find a way

your right, the rules of engagement...are written....by military leaders who understand that when you kill civilians in a COIN Operation, you are just helping the enemy.

also
http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2009/06/obama-administration-mirandizes.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021100572.html

Officials said most of the detainees talked to FBI and military interrogators, some for days, others for months, while one or two rebuffed them. The men were read rights similar to a standard U.S. Miranda warning, and officials designed the program to get to the information the CIA already had gleaned by using waterboarding, which simulates drowning, and other techniques such as sleep deprivation, forced standing and the use of extreme temperatures.

Bush used it as well..

also this is for people captured , our troops are not running on a battle field yelling this at people and not shooting them.

Go read the army Feild Manual for COIN...or the book the SLing and the Stone...get aducated on COIN...you will see why the rules of engagement are there for a reason..without them you may as well just say you lost and leave and not even try.

as for Vietnam...it would help if we had no done all that stuff to people...its part of the reason we lost the war...we had no support from the people...and turns out Mai Lai and such actions does not gain you support of the people....Just Like in 1972 Bloody Sunday...was the biggest recruitment drive the IRA ever could ask for...given to them by not using proper rules of engagement

 

[Pandora]

your right, the rules of engagement...are written....by military leaders who understand that when you kill civilians in a COIN Operation, you are just helping the enemy.

also
http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2009/06/obama-administration-mirandizes.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021100572.html

Officials said most of the detainees talked to FBI and military interrogators, some for days, others for months, while one or two rebuffed them. The men were read rights similar to a standard U.S. Miranda warning, and officials designed the program to get to the information the CIA already had gleaned by using waterboarding, which simulates drowning, and other techniques such as sleep deprivation, forced standing and the use of extreme temperatures.

Bush used it as well..

also this is for people captured , our troops are not running on a battle field yelling this at people and not shooting them.

Go read the army Feild Manual for COIN...or the book the SLing and the Stone...get aducated on COIN...you will see why the rules of engagement are there for a reason..without them you may as well just say you lost and leave and not even try.

as for Vietnam...it would help if we had no done all that stuff to people...its part of the reason we lost the war...we had no support from the people...and turns out Mai Lai and such actions does not gain you support of the people....Just Like in 1972 Bloody Sunday...was the biggest recruitment drive the IRA ever could ask for...given to them by not using proper rules of engagement

Are you saying that obama is doing exactly what President Bush did IE: Miranda rights and the exact same "rules of engagement"?

Did President Bush have the miranda rights read to terrorists before or after he waterboarded them?