Should the blue states secede from the union?

[r0beph]

My dad taught me to shoot a gun as soon as I was old enough to hold it and while I'm not an avid hunter, I can certainly outshoot any liberal gang banger lol. Libs wouldn't stand a chance if things got hairy cause not enough of them could even work the safety on a gun let alone shoot straight and if they tried to use the military, i'm sure there'd be a coup. The American armed forces would not go against the people in a full scale battle.

Oh really? I'm pretty much left, see. However I took my high school to state in rifle team, I can hold a 2" pattern at 300 yds with irons with my mos-nagant. I think your inability to seperate liberal idealism from applying this as some sort of perjoritive decrement towards a group is amusing. Liberals aren't a type of person, liberal's school of thought tend to trend towards certain ideals, but it is a misnomer to use it to refer to a group of people. I should assume you may ought rethink your ignorant approach to labeling.. The conservatives did that in the 60s, they still do it today. At least us "libs" don't have to drink out of our very own water fountains.

 

[r0beph]

The stats on gun usage are hilarious

In abou 1% of cases they are used by the owner for protection.

In about 11% of cases they are taken off the owner and used on them.

In most cases they are used in drinken rages against family members

In 4% of cases they are discovered by children and used on their family in error.

Actually in most cases guns are used for target shooting and hunting, while those stats are percentile bases from about .0001% of gun usage activities. I'm pretty damn far left, but the gun control crowd, I don't get it. Gun control does not lead to safer streets, just like drug control doesn't stop drug use. Criminals will be criminals regardless of the tools that are legal or illegal to use by them.

Now, I'm also calling Bull**** on the idea that guns are needed for protection. They don't NEED to be legal for protection, they should be legal because it really does nothing to illegalize them except piss people off and remove an ability that makes no sense to remove.

Both arguments, the left and right on gun control are utterly ridiculous and flawed. But in favor of NOT having useless laws, I say let guns alone.

 

[dahermit]

The stats on gun usage are hilarious

In abou 1% of cases they are used by the owner for protection.

In about 11% of cases they are taken off the owner and used on them.

In most cases they are used in drinken rages against family members

In 4% of cases they are discovered by children and used on their family in error.

A citation please to the study you are summarizing lest we think you are just picking the numbers out of the air.

 

[dahermit]

Oh really? I'm pretty much left, see. However I took my high school to state in rifle team, I can hold a 2" pattern at 300 yds with irons with my mos-nagant. I think your inability to seperate liberal idealism from applying this as some sort of perjoritive decrement towards a group is amusing. Liberals aren't a type of person, liberal's school of thought tend to trend towards certain ideals, but it is a misnomer to use it to refer to a group of people. I should assume you may ought rethink your ignorant approach to labeling.. The conservatives did that in the 60s, they still do it today. At least us "libs" don't have to drink out of our very own water fountains.

A 2" "pattern"!!?? Do you mean a five shot "group"? Also, at 100 yards that would be a .67 inch group. I would like to see a Mosin-Nagant that would shoot a .67 five shot 100 yard group even in a machine rest. Even if it were a rifle built by the U.S.S.R for Olympic competition, you are as likely to shoot groups like that from the even the bench (let alone from standard positions including prone)as I am to fly. As a former competitor in NRA High Power Rifle competition, me thinks thee are spreading the Bull Poop higher than knee deep.

 

[r0beph]

yeah that is bull poop, heh 20" =\ typo makes me look bad. And yeah, pattern / group, the rifle team sgt always called em patterns, habit I guess. never tried more than 300yd but mos' have some seriously nice range on em. We were shooting at large archery targets (and 300yds was a guess I'd +- that by 20)

 

[Pandora]

Isn't Oregon among the blue states?

I thought you were a red state kind of person.

I think FF's map is a much more accurate depiction of the influence of the two parties by geography. I live in a very red portion of a very blue state, with people around here liking to rant about how San Francisco and LA dominate state politics. They do, of course, since they have most of the population, and there really isn't much that the Central Valley could do about it. Maybe if we refused to feed them.... no, they'd just buy it somewhere else.

Yeah I do live right in the smack of HempVille, I would move to eastern Oregon of course if we ever went to this. I am an American and proud to be.

I would only advocate for half of Oregon and half of Washington. The Western half of both are liberal the eastern half are conservative. I think that Northern Calf is more conservative too and I would say that should stay America and let the southern half go to the dogs.

What though if that section from SF to LA were given to Canada? Then they would no longer control the rest of you. Salem, Portland and Eugene control our whole state. Those idiots have never even seen a farm but make all sorts of rules to make a productive farm impossible.

I really really like this idea. It would solve everything

 

[GenSeneca]

I really really like this idea. It would solve everything

I have an alternate solution... Limit the power of government back to Constitutional levels.

Take away the power government has over our lives and it doesn't matter what crony pud is in office. Democrats would no longer have to fear the intrusions and violations of a Right Wing controlled Government and vice versa.

Unfortunately, seems many on the Left and Right have an authoritarian streak and salivate over the idea of people on their side holding the power to impose their will on others - through government.

Doesn't it make more sense to limit government than fight over who controls it?

 

[Jarlaxle]

At least us "libs" don't have to drink out of our very own water fountains.

Perish the thought! Proper moonbats only drink BOTTLED water!

 

[PLC1]

Perish the thought! Proper moonbats only drink BOTTLED water!

Right, and would never even touch a gun!

Yuck pooey, an awful old conservative rifle! Why, a good American liberal would never know how to shoot such an evil device. The kick could spill a good cup of latte.

How's that a for stereotype, rObeph?

 

[Pandora]

I have an alternate solution... Limit the power of government back to Constitutional levels.

Take away the power government has over our lives and it doesn't matter what crony pud is in office. Democrats would no longer have to fear the intrusions and violations of a Right Wing controlled Government and vice versa.

Unfortunately, seems many on the Left and Right have an authoritarian streak and salivate over the idea of people on their side holding the power to impose their will on others - through government.

Doesn't it make more sense to limit government than fight over who controls it?

Sure it’s a great idea but no one will go for it.

Lib’s do anything they can to keep constitutional judges off the courts. They call them right wing. When you are so far left that you think the constitution is right wing its time to divide up the states and start over.

And what about states rights? The left half of Oregon screws everything up for Oregon as a whole because they are libs and there are more of them.

We would have to end states rights for it to really work and I am not sure I would want to go that far.

Besides the fact that lib’s can not stand conservatives and visa versa. Its getting worse, much worse not better. There really is going to be a civil war if we can not find a solution soon.

 

[Pandora]

Oh really? I'm pretty much left, see. However I took my high school to state in rifle team, I can hold a 2" pattern at 300 yds with irons with my mos-nagant. I think your inability to seperate liberal idealism from applying this as some sort of perjoritive decrement towards a group is amusing. Liberals aren't a type of person, liberal's school of thought tend to trend towards certain ideals, but it is a misnomer to use it to refer to a group of people. I should assume you may ought rethink your ignorant approach to labeling.. The conservatives did that in the 60s, they still do it today. At least us "libs" don't have to drink out of our very own water fountains.

Wouldn’t you like to live in a land where no one argued about abortion? You could just have them at your pleasure. And there were no guns because everyone agreed no guns.

A land where everyone agreed to do what ever is needed to save that butterfly or spotted owl.

It seems like you would want that.

I know that I would love to live in a land where abortion was one of our sad facts of HISTORY like slavery. I would love to live in a land where we cared for the land but the people too! Where it was ok to have faith in something higher than yourself and you were not mocked for it.

It would only work for a couple of hundred years and then we would have to go through this again, but it’s the couple of hundred years my kids and grandkids grew up so its worth it to me today to do it.


Think of it like a divorce

 

[Pandora]

But one must is we get to keep the name United States of America and the constitution that comes with it. You have to be part of mexico or canada or make up a new name.

 

[Bunz]

And THAT is completely inaccurate. Go back and look at when all of the tax codes that compelled those companies to go overseas in the first place were passed and signed into law. You'll quickly discover that they were sponsored by Dim-O-Craps, passed by Dim-O-Crap Congresses, and signed by Dim-O-Crap Presidents.

OOPS!

HINT: think FDR.

Firstly, this whole Dim-O-Crap stuff is old and quite immature. Please avoid it in the future if you want me to respond.

Secondly,
I didnt say anything about Democrats or Republicans. I said red state leaders. Of which Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter are included in, so give it a rest.

Also, the 16th Amendment goes back much farther than FDR. But fine lets repeal the income tax, I propose we shift that burden to a federal property tax.

 

[Bunz]

I think it is worth pointing out that the US drills for only a tiny fraction of its available oil, so your response is irrelevant.

I live in Alaska, I say drill. But there are a few things that you are not taking into account. Much of the oil you are referring to is shale oil.
Very low quality, tough to extract soundly, and more expensive than more conventional types of crude oil.

Secondly, there are millions of acres open for drilling that the oil companies that they have for various reasons chosen not to develop. I am talking about oil fields such as Pt. Thompson with a considerable amount of proven reserves, that they have sat on for 30 years.

Thirdly, my response is very relevent because Canada has the second largest known oil reserves in the world, and are currently our biggest importer.
Do you have any inclination or depth of knowledge to understand what would happen if Canada suddenly said we are turning the pipes off?

 

[Bunz]

My dad taught me to shoot a gun as soon as I was old enough to hold it and while I'm not an avid hunter, I can certainly outshoot any liberal gang banger lol. Libs wouldn't stand a chance if things got hairy cause not enough of them could even work the safety on a gun let alone shoot straight and if they tried to use the military, i'm sure there'd be a coup. The American armed forces would not go against the people in a full scale battle.

Yeah you sound like a real tough guy. Im a gun toting Democrat and I will outshoot you with a rifle, pistol and especially a shotgun any day of the year, day or night.