Socialism For Dummies

Gipper

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well...explained for dummies. I think these three quotes do a good job of explaining socialism.

Why is it that some Americans can't comprehend its ineffectiveness and tyrannical nature? Are they dumb? Or, could it be they have been brainwashed by leftist elite? Or, is it just that they are just lazy and weak? Which is it? Could be all the above?


"[W]e can either have an economy that puts the private citizen at the center -- the consumer, the worker, the entrepreneur -- and lets each individual be the judge of what to buy or sell, where to work, where to invest, and what to create. Or we can put the government at the center of the economy and let the bureaucrats and politicians call the balls and strikes and decide who's out of business, or who will get the big contract and be home free." --Ronald Reagan

"This perversion of rights is killing the Western world. ... All the free stuff is free in the sense of those offers that begin 'You pay nothing now!' But you will eventually. No nation is rich enough to give you all this 'free' stuff year in, year out. ... According to the Senate Budget Committee, U.S. government debt is currently $44,215 per person. Going by the official Obama budget numbers, it will rise over the next 10 years to $75,000. As I say, that's per person: 75 grand in debt for every man, woman and child, not to mention every one of the ever swelling ranks of retirees and disabled Social Security recipients -- or about $200,000 per household. ... [A]t some point, no matter how painless the seductions of statism, you run up against the hard math: As those debt per capita numbers make plain, all this 'free' stuff is doing is mortgaging your liberty and lining up a future of serfdom." --columnist Mark Steyn
"The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The greatest achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from ... grinding poverty ... the only cases in recorded history are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it's exactly in the kind of societies that depart from that." --economist Milton Friedman
 
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Socialism means that welfare for the rich people will end. Remember, the rich people don't pay any taxes, however the rich people receive endless billions of dollars in bailouts. Remember, many rich people do not work. Under socialism if you do not work you starve – unless you are too young, studying, disabled, or a senior citizen.

Most right-wingers know absolutely nothing about socialism. They think that Obama – who gave hundreds of billions of dollars away to the rich in bailouts – is a socialist. LOL!

Right-wingers seem to believe that the rich are entitled to eat caviar and drink champagne even though they do not work. Right wingers seem to believe that the rich are entitled to endless bailouts funded by working-class taxpayers . Right-wingers seem to believe that working people are so despicable that they deserve nothing in return for the taxes that they pay.

Under socialism taxes will be used for the benefit of the working people, because it is the working people who pay the taxes and to create the wealth in society. Aparently, this is very disturbing to right-wingers.

Right-wingers incorrectly believe that there is socialism in Western Europe. LOL! They are incorrect. All of Europe is capitalist.
 
Remember, the rich people don't pay any taxes...

The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shouldered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes.

Guess%20Who%20Really%20Pays%20the%20Taxes.jpg

Right-wingers seem to believe that the rich are entitled to eat caviar and drink champagne even though they do not work. Right wingers seem to believe that the rich are entitled to endless bailouts funded by working-class taxpayers . Right-wingers seem to believe that working people are so despicable that they deserve nothing in return for the taxes that they pay.
Straw man – an argument based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

Right-wingers incorrectly believe that there is socialism in Western Europe.

Social Democracy:

Social democracy advocates the creation of legal reforms and economic redistribution programs to eliminate economic class disparities between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat.
...
Practical modern social democratic policies include the promotion of a welfare state, and the creation of economic democracy as a means to secure workers' rights.
...
Many of the policies espoused by social democrats in the first half of the 20th century have since been put into practice by social democratic governments throughout the industrialized world. Industries have been nationalized, public spending has seen a large long-term rise, and the role of the state in providing free-to-user or subsidized health care and education has increased greatly. Many of the reforms made by social democrats in Europe, such as the establishment of national health care services, have been embraced by liberals and conservatives, and there is no support outside of a radical fringe for a return to 19th-century levels of public spending and economic regulation.

The redistribution of wealth, the welfare state, Progressive taxation, bailouts, subsidies, full or partial nationalizations of industries, etc., these are all Socialist in nature and none of them are permitted under a Capitalist system of government.

All of Europe is capitalist.
Ayn Rand on Capitalism:

In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are free to cooperate or not, to deal with one another or not, as their own individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate. They can deal with one another only in terms of and by means of reason, i.e., by means of discussion, persuasion, and contractual agreement, by voluntary choice to mutual benefit. The right to agree with others is not a problem in any society; it is the right to disagree that is crucial. It is the institution of private property that protects and implements the right to disagree—and thus keeps the road open to man’s most valuable attribute (valuable personally, socially, and objectively): the creative mind.
Just because the Europeans still have some property rights that have not yet been usurped by the state, does not mean they are living under a Capitalist system.
 
Socialism means that welfare for the rich people will end. Remember, the rich people don't pay any taxes, however the rich people receive endless billions of dollars in bailouts. Remember, many rich people do not work. Under socialism if you do not work you starve – unless you are too young, studying, disabled, or a senior citizen.

Most right-wingers know absolutely nothing about socialism. They think that Obama – who gave hundreds of billions of dollars away to the rich in bailouts – is a socialist. LOL!

Right-wingers seem to believe that the rich are entitled to eat caviar and drink champagne even though they do not work. Right wingers seem to believe that the rich are entitled to endless bailouts funded by working-class taxpayers . Right-wingers seem to believe that working people are so despicable that they deserve nothing in return for the taxes that they pay.

Under socialism taxes will be used for the benefit of the working people, because it is the working people who pay the taxes and to create the wealth in society. Aparently, this is very disturbing to right-wingers.

Right-wingers incorrectly believe that there is socialism in Western Europe. LOL! They are incorrect. All of Europe is capitalist.

It is amazing that ANYONE thinks as you do. I know many do, but I am fasinated that someone who is apparently literate and capable of using a computer to educate themselves, believes in such foolishness.

You believe Socialism is utopia. And yet, you have claimed that the USSR was a wonderful place. Do you fail to see the contradiction?

Could you please tell us HOW you came to believe what you believe? Were your parents communists? Were you educated by communists?
 
It is amazing that ANYONE thinks as you do. I know many do, but I am fasinated that someone who is apparently literate and capable of using a computer to educate themselves, believes in such foolishness.

You believe Socialism is utopia. And yet, you have claimed that the USSR was a wonderful place. Do you fail to see the contradiction?

Could you please tell us HOW you came to believe what you believe? Were your parents communists? Were you educated by communists?


but it sounds so good on paper, come now comrade surely you can see that ?!?
 
There appear to be many misconceptions about socialism expressed on this thread. In order to dispel your misconceptions I suggest that you read a book by Frederick Engels entitled Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.

I will take the time out to try to dispel some of the misconceptions that I saw on this thread.

First of all: democratic socialism and socialism are two different things. Democratic socialism is a political movement by pro-capitalist politicians who claim to represent the interests of the working class. While politicians who practice democratic socialism may be leaders of pseudo-labor parties or groups they always seek to defend capitalism. Remember that the social democrats ordered the murder of the socialists/communists Karl Leiknecht and Rosa Luxemburg. Lenin broke with democratic socialism when the democratic socialists of Europe voted war credits for their governments at the beginning of World War I.

Socialism is a higher stage of economic production which occurs after capitalism. It is an intermediary stage between capitalism and communism. Socialism has never happened yet. However, there has been planned economies. Of course, a planned economy is superior to a capitalist one. This is why the Soviet Union rose up from the Third World to become the second most powerful industrialized nation in the world. China has had 10% a year growth rates for most years since 1949 thanks to a planned economy. However, to have socialism you have to have workers democracy and a superior stage of economic production far superior to what China or the Soviet Union achieved.

Many people have been misled to believe that the existence of various social programs means socialism. They are mistaken. These social programs exist because of the struggles of the working class against the capitalist system. Workers fought for the right to medical care, the right to a pension, the right to unemployment insurance, etc. However, even though the social programs exist the basic capitalist nature of the economy remains, as a means of production are owned by the capitalists and not the workers. Since the system remains capitalist these social gains by the working class are always under threat.
 
There appear to be many misconceptions about socialism expressed on this thread. In order to dispel your misconceptions I suggest that you read a book by Frederick Engels entitled Socialism: Utopian and Scientific.

I will take the time out to try to dispel some of the misconceptions that I saw on this thread.

First of all: democratic socialism and socialism are two different things. Democratic socialism is a political movement by pro-capitalist politicians who claim to represent the interests of the working class. While politicians who practice democratic socialism may be leaders of pseudo-labor parties or groups they always seek to defend capitalism. Remember that the social democrats ordered the murder of the socialists/communists Karl Leiknecht and Rosa Luxemburg. Lenin broke with democratic socialism when the democratic socialists of Europe voted war credits for their governments at the beginning of World War I.

Socialism is a higher stage of economic production which occurs after capitalism. It is an intermediary stage between capitalism and communism. Socialism has never happened yet. However, there has been planned economies. Of course, a planned economy is superior to a capitalist one. This is why the Soviet Union rose up from the Third World to become the second most powerful industrialized nation in the world. China has had 10% a year growth rates for most years since 1949 thanks to a planned economy. However, to have socialism you have to have workers democracy and a superior stage of economic production far superior to what China or the Soviet Union achieved.

Many people have been misled to believe that the existence of various social programs means socialism. They are mistaken. These social programs exist because of the struggles of the working class against the capitalist system. Workers fought for the right to medical care, the right to a pension, the right to unemployment insurance, etc. However, even though the social programs exist the basic capitalist nature of the economy remains, as a means of production are owned by the capitalists and not the workers. Since the system remains capitalist these social gains by the working class are always under threat.

Any society taken this sort of textbook path Wolf,and if so, did it last ?
 
Any society taken this sort of textbook path Wolf,and if so, did it last ?


Socialism has not existed on the planet, at least not socialism as defined by Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, Vladimir Lenin, and Leon Trotsky. According to Stalin "socialism in one country" was achieved in the Soviet Union. This is of course false. Stalin is known as saying, "paper will take anything that is written on it." Take whatever Stalin said for propaganda purposes with a grain of salt.

The only reason the Soviet Union survived as long as it did is because it had a planned economy. I talked about the many achievements of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union would never have been able to rise up from a Third World country and become the second most powerful and industrialized nation in the world without a planned economy. It was the planned economy that made it possible for the people of the Soviet Union to have the rights of a job for all, housing for all, free medical care for all, free quality childcare for all, etc.

However, the Soviet Union did not actually achieve socialism. You cannot have "socialism in one country." To have socialism, or capitalism for that matter, you have to have the same economic system in a number of countries for the purposes of trade and commerce.

History marches on. If we had the same attitude before (well it's never been done before, so what's the point) we’d still be living in caves. The human race must progress forward in its development and throw capitalism in the garbage can and replace it with socialism. Otherwise, the capitalists will eventually have World War III with each other. It is only a matter of time.
 
Socialism has not existed on the planet, at least not socialism as defined by Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, Vladimir Lenin, and Leon Trotsky. According to Stalin "socialism in one country" was achieved in the Soviet Union. This is of course false. Stalin is known as saying, "paper will take anything that is written on it." Take whatever Stalin said for propaganda purposes with a grain of salt.

The only reason the Soviet Union survived as long as it did is because it had a planned economy. I talked about the many achievements of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union would never have been able to rise up from a Third World country and become the second most powerful and industrialized nation in the world without a planned economy. It was the planned economy that made it possible for the people of the Soviet Union to have the rights of a job for all, housing for all, free medical care for all, free quality childcare for all, etc.

However, the Soviet Union did not actually achieve socialism. You cannot have "socialism in one country." To have socialism, or capitalism for that matter, you have to have the same economic system in a number of countries for the purposes of trade and commerce.

History marches on. If we had the same attitude before (well it's never been done before, so what's the point) we’d still be living in caves. The human race must progress forward in its development and throw capitalism in the garbage can and replace it with socialism. Otherwise, the capitalists will eventually have World War III with each other. It is only a matter of time.


Russia was and is a first world country and the biggest of big dogs in eastern europe. by the standards it set for itself, it was a failure. and relative to it's resources it was mired by the planned economy.

Its true that there is and never has been a textbook socialist much less communist nation (China perhaps came closest). And why do you suppose that is ? how is it that every one that set off down that road became a totalitarian state such as we saw with Stalin ?

the answer is simple.

"Some animals are more equal than others."
George Orwell "Animal Farm" you really should read it.

what surprises me is that you do see how any other outcome is possible.
 
Socialism has not existed on the planet, at least not socialism as defined by Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, Vladimir Lenin, and Leon Trotsky.

Capitalism has also never existed but that doesn't stop you from claiming that it is to blame for all the worlds ills.

It was the planned economy that made it possible for the people of the Soviet Union to have the rights of a job for all, housing for all, free medical care for all, free quality childcare for all, etc.
At some point the parasites suck the hosts dry and the whole Socialist system collapses, it fails because it is an immoral system based on the violation of individual rights and without a constant fresh supply of victims to bleed dry (soviet expansion into satellite states), the beast dies of starvation.
However, the Soviet Union did not actually achieve socialism. You cannot have "socialism in one country." To have socialism, or capitalism for that matter, you have to have the same economic system in a number of countries for the purposes of trade and commerce.
Socialism does seek to make slaves out of every single individual on earth, of that there is no doubt. Capitalism, however, does not need to exist in every nation, or even multiple nations, one single country could be Capitalist. If not interfered with by higher levels of government, you could even have Capitalism on the state and local levels as well.
The human race must progress forward in its development...
Not everyone considers the enslavement of mankind to be "progress".
 
The retiree's benefts are not free. They have been paid for by 40 years of taxes.

The real welfare is the Defence monster.

Comrade Stalin
 
The retiree's benefts are not free. They have been paid for by 40 years of taxes.

The real welfare is the Defence monster.

Comrade Stalin

not around here, Social Security is paid by those earning now. while you're earning, you're paying some retiree.
 
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