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Socialist Usa: Corporate Welfare Bail Outs

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Foolosophy, May 31, 2008.

  1. Foolosophy

    Foolosophy New Member

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    ALMOST 1 trillion dollars of US tax payers money pumped into select financial sectors and handed out to specific US corporations as CORPORATE WELFARE.

    where are the FREE market principles in the USA now?

    The Republican party and its brilliant leader GEORGE BUSH has a major problem with other welfare programs which is savagely cuts each year in office.

    I suppose it needs to fund illegal wars and bail out Republican party benefactors which are usually innefficient private corporations (normally monopolies anyway)

    What a joke the USA has become on the international stage.

    Although it will recover economically, It will take a lot of good to recover from the diplomatic hits the US has been dealt under the Stalinist style Socialistic programs of the BUSH administration.

    I feel great sorrow for the American people who will be hit right in the middle of eyes and will not know what to do becasue the American government HAS NEVER BEEN FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE.

    THE US government today is By Corporations FOR corporations.

    And as John Dewey once said "governments are the shadows cast by big business upon society"
    :cool:
     
  2. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Proof?

    Don't know what you're talking about -Bill clinton signed the republican welfare reform act of 1996.

    Do you want to be the first appeaser to prove the "illegal war" mantra?

    Awwwwwwww -we don't have the approval of the euroweenies, and dozens of dictatorships - tsk tsk.

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight, Bush is a Stalinist. :D

     
  3. RenegadeFuture

    RenegadeFuture New Member

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    Stalinist? Come on, now that's just silly. You're calling anything remotely interventionist or "socialist" Stalinist?
    I think you need to learn the definition of the term. By such a warped view, European nations are by and large extremely communist command economies(there is a difference between Communism and Socialism), and totalitarian police states. I know, living in the UK and having visited continental Europe many a time, that this is NOT TRUE.
    Stalinism is correctly used to refer to communist police states such as the USSR and North Korea, not capitalist "democracies".

    *sigh*

    The US is very far from a Soviet-style police state, and such extreme negativity towards anything in the form of intervention or welfare cannot be reasoned with.
     
  4. Foolosophy

    Foolosophy New Member

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    So why not allow the so-called AMERICAN free market system to fend for itself?

    Isnt the principle of a free market system and capitalism the ability of new PLAYERS to enter the market because others have stuffed up or are not very efficient?

    BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT THE US ECONOMY is not really based on Free market principles - especially for the big boys - THE PIG pRIVATE CORPORATIONS who need hand outs, legislative advantages, tarriff protections, subsidies and ABOVE ALL welfare handouts when things are not going too good.

    I suggest you look up HOW Stalin oversaw the Soviet Economy and you will see very little difference between that era and what is going on at the moment in the US market and financial sector.

    The problem has always been that AMericans have ALWAYS thought that they live in a democracy and free market economy.

    In reality the USA is a plutocratic Oligarchy and has a centralised private economy that is propped up by Washington.

    cheers
    :rolleyes:;);)
     
  5. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    If anything I would guess that in a pure non-regulated "free" market stiffling competition would be the ideal situation for any company. Cut out the competition and monopolise the market...look no further than Microsoft ;)



    Tarrifs, duties, quotas, taxes and bankrupcy protection are common tools used by all nations to protect workers, markets and societies. These are common principles of international trade, trading partnerships and national economic interests! why should the US be any different to every other country in the world?


    An interesting leap of imagination equating Stalinist Russian economic profiling to the modern US economy.....errrmmm....yeah. Care to wade into that wee theory a tad further as you've got me kindda mystified on that one :confused:
     
  6. Foolosophy

    Foolosophy New Member

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    You are mystified because you base your view on how the US economy works purely on the free market system and capitalist ideologies - WHEN IT IS CLEARLY NOT EVEN REMOTELY BASED IN THESE CONCEPTS.

    This is why its very difficult for people - especially in the USA - to understand their own system and how inherently corrupt it is.

    You only have to look at the US political/social system. Its not a democracy and never has been. A plutocratic Oligarchy best describes the US political system, and these types of systems are NOT democratic.

    Now if you tell an American citizen that they DONT live in a democracy, they look very mystified - VERY MYSTIFIED INDEED.

    Years on propaganda and blind nationalistic patriotism has cause this state of affairs to be prevalent in the USA today.

    Its also present in other countries. China for example would have a far more capitalistic outlook to how an economy runs than the USA has ever had. Just because the strings are being pulled by the Beijig centralised government is totally irrelevant.

    The biggest bank in the world today is Chinese.

    The country that holds the most US currency is China.

    Whats going on?

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Educated people in the US know that we have a mixed economy, and don't need to be lectured by you about it.

    Preposterous nonsense. :D

    They'd be mystified, because the US is the oldest continuous democracy in the world. :)



    An idiotic self-contradiction.

    Irrelevent.

    Irrelevent.
     
  8. Foolosophy

    Foolosophy New Member

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    Really? Based on what definition of democracy? That its citizens can cast a vote every 4 years? This is irrelevant.

    The USA is NOT a democracy NOW. Its a plutocractic Oligarchy - which cannot be a democracy by pure definition alone.


    Remember the USA has been a slave based system for most of its history - Are you saying that slavery is an integral part of a democratic nation? Or are we to ignore that part of US history?

    Democracy is a Greek word and has its conceptual definition well rooted in ancient Hellenism.

    Democracy is NOT an American Corporatised concept.

    Look up the words "demos" and "kratia" - the greek words that make up the Hellenic concept of what democratic ideals should be.

    THere wouldnt be an academic in any of the US Politics departments that would describe the US political system as purely democratic.

    Your ego and self decpetion caused by decades of media spin and blind distorted patriotism DOES NOT allow you to accept this political axiom concerning your nation and its violent history.

    There is nothing to be ashamen about - you never know, if you accpet it gracefully you may well be able to change the US political system in the future to something closer to a democracy.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  9. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Oh for goodness sake.......Oh god the US had slaves!!!!....holy shackles batman what should we do!!....There's only one thing to do Slaveboy!! we must go and beat ourselves up with big whips and chain ourselves to Chicken George's grave.... Jeez, so what, big deal. Look you may be interested to know that most every country that has ever existed has employed slaves and/or slave labour at some point in time, indeed some do to this day.


    Nothing can be "purely" democratic as nothing would get done, if you want to live in the dark ages with little communes deciding everything by popular vote then I think they have sects out in the woods that do just that other wise I think you'll find that the democracy within which you live whilst not perfect ain't as bad as it could be!

    ....Should anyone here within this gathering object to the proposal herewith presented come forward and make their objections know before us......... as no-one has come forth let us put the proposal to the vote of the nation and its citizens and dependent citizens within the states and the commonwealth of this Great nation ...therefore let all those in favour of the President using blue toilet paper instead of the white say AYE!!

    Cheers
     
  10. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    If one does a quick bit of math, and takes the 1776 birth of the USA, considering slavery being banned in 1865. The USA has 89 years where slavery was allowed and 143 years without. Now one can talk about modern slavery, but slavery and the USA is different between slavery and the imperical governments that came before the Declaration of Independance.
     
  11. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    Your comment is about NOW, why bring up something that was illegalized over 130 years ago? And the US WAS a democracy even then, you are bringing up the separarate issue of enfranchisement.

    "Corporatised"? What the devil are you talking about?

    Uh, I've known since about 4th grade, thank you. :rolleyes:

    It's a democratic republic - is that your REAL BIG POINT? :)

    That is an insult, and the mods have recently warned that insults will no longer be tolerated.
     
  12. Foolosophy

    Foolosophy New Member

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    So your response is to trivialise the brutality of US style fascism as it manifested itself through its slavery systems that were firmly entrenched in the US society till only recently.

    Well done.

    This is a normal reponse by people who have no counter argument based on facts or indeed some sort of moral compass.

    Although I do feel sorry for you a little, THE US SLAVE SYSTEM has no moral justification whatsoever. (explains why you RAN away from a proper debate and resorted to diversion and mocking)

    The very least that you can do, if you had any self respect or minimal level of personal integrity is TO ADMIT THAT THE BRUTALITY AND NON-DEMOCRATIC NATURE OF THE US SLAVERY SYSTEM WAS ACTUALLY MORALLY WRONG and renders the bulk of the history concerning the USA as UN-CHRISTIAN, NON-DEMOCRATIC and above all BRUTALLY IMMORAL.

    cheers,
    :D:D:D
     
  13. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    you're welcome...on the back of your post how else would you like to deal with it :rolleyes: Oh woe is me and a gazzillion Hail Mary's and with a bit of self-flegallation chucked in to spice it up perhaps? Or we could just deal with it like all the other nations involved have done and accept it and move on....which by the way has my vote. But hey... if you want to get all worked up about it....please do so...after all its a free country ;)


    .... please warn me before writing something like that I've just sprayed coffee all over the cat!! Thanks mate you've really brightened my day up! :D


    You want to deal with the "pure democracy" issue now? Or shall we stick with Slaves and them nasty fascist Americans....
     
  14. Foolosophy

    Foolosophy New Member

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    Yes I apologise for that - I should have warned you in advance.Is the cat OK?
     
  15. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Yup mate..

    Poor wee mite nestles up in my lap when I'm working and every now and then I drop somat on her....she's used to it..

    She's called Pebbles...you know after the wee lass from the Flintstones so she can take it ;):D
     
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