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Teen dies after transplant denied

Discussion in 'Health' started by Popeye, Dec 22, 2007.

  1. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    This case illustrates what can happen when you have a health care system based on nothing but profits. This 17 year old was originally denied a liver transplant by her cold hearted, money grubbing insurance company, CIGNA. They changed their mind when it started to become a public relations nightmare, but it was too late. Now after she has died, the parents are suing. This type of denial, on the basis that the treatment was "experimental" was brought up Michael Moore in SICKO, as he pointed out that insurance companies use the "experimental" excuse frequently to avoid paying for expensive treatments.
    http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/NEWS01/71221004

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_teen_liver_transplant.html?source=mypi
     
  2. bewitched

    bewitched New Member

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    I have a problem with organ transplants.
    I'm not a cold insensitive person but I believe that we are born with the organs we have and if they fail we weren't meant to go beyond that point in life... nature's way.
    transplants seem like Frankenstein to me.
    all this quest for life on an over populated planet isn't going to be good for the future of mankind... but that's just my opinion.
    I am not an organ donor.
     
  3. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    Thats nice and everything, but you are missing the point.

    This is all about an insurance company denying a young girl treatment. They don't care about people, they just care about profits.

    If we had universal health care this kind of thing wouldn't take place.
     
  4. bewitched

    bewitched New Member

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    my mom has never had insurance and never been to a doctor since 1957.
    she chooses not to participate in the profit medical industry.

    I've found that doctors do unnecessary surgeries. they don't know what the f they are doing most of the time and they prescribe drugs to get bonuses.
    sad.

    I think there's also a certain amount of people being dependent on the government... and doctors.
    I've also had a doctor tell me that I needed to have a check up so that she could save my life... like somehow she was responsible for my health or something.
    so it's not just the industry and insurance, it's people who fall into it and think it's some miracle necessity to live.
    humans have lived for millions of years before this industry.
    it makes me so mad.
    I do like my cosmetic procedures though, I would never do a boob job but minor improvements make me look and feel less flawed.
     
  5. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    The AMA, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and the politicians are all in it together.

    It is morally wrong to deny a person health care on the basis of economics. Or, as you point out, it is wrong to push treatment or drugs on a patient, they might not need. A for profit medical industry is guilty of all these things and more. Why can't we have a system like Canada, or the NHS in the UK?
     
  6. bewitched

    bewitched New Member

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    what is health care?
    what is your description?
     
  7. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    The prevention, treatment, and management of illness.

    This girl was denied treatment that may have saved her life.

    When you've got the insurance and pharmaceutical company lobbies outnumbering Congressmen 4 to 1, you've got a problem. A vicious little circle, inspired by greed, caring nothing for people's health. Literally, only in America.
     
  8. bewitched

    bewitched New Member

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    that describes the CDC.
    well what the CDC is suppose to do, they aren't a preventative organization. they only count disease.

    the body doesn't need prevention, and management of illness, that's what our biological defenses are for.
    as for treatment.... treatment of what?
     
  9. Popeye

    Popeye Active Member

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    What are you talking about?

    prevention of illness: For example, what about childhood vaccines ?

    management and treatment of illness: you get sick, you need treatment. That seems rather simple and straightforward.
     
  10. r0beph

    r0beph New Member

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    Jehovah much? When I was an EMT, I used to find it appalling those who would willingly allow a loved one to die, for the sake of some silly assumptions about "nature."

    See if one person dies and gives their organs to save the lives of others, it's not really something that leads to overpopulous, see someone had to die. Although I'll concede you can do transplants with both donor and recipient are alive, but in truth transplant is a minor in population increase. What it does is gives a chance for those who had none. Frankenstein? No. What if you got the arm of a mass murderer, would you suddenly find yourself without control of this arm? No. "Nature's way" is a funny term, I mean, what IS nature? Is it nature that led to humanities technological exponentiation? Or is this somehow unnatural? Is it not nature to be human? Is it not nature as a human to create new and innovative ways to further our lives? Is it natural to cook meat? I mean, technically in nature you don't typically find ground beef shaped in circular patties, but I'm sure you don't deny yourself at least some of these "unnatural" foods. (I on the other hand assert that this is in FACT natural, in so far as humanity contains the ability to thwart the standard to create our own....although this at times can be argued as to what is and isn't a good thing.)

    rf
     
  11. Segep

    Segep Member

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    That's really easy to say if you've never been sick or seen someone who is sick suffering because they can't afford medical care.
     
  12. Bill Shatner

    Bill Shatner New Member

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    To begin with I sincerely hope you come back from the middle ages sometime soon.

    In addition, the planet is not overpopulated; we have plenty of pristine, unpopulated land (much more than we currently use - Brazil alone only uses half of it's land) to use at our discretion.

    Let's look at the US:

    In 2002 20 percent of the US was cropland and 3 percent of the US was urban areas - the other 77 percent was forest, grasslands, "special use land" and miscellaneous land.

    In other words, we don't really use 77% of the land in the USA.

    Get a grip.
     
  13. SavageDreamer

    SavageDreamer New Member

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    Its truly sick and sad that our society has degenerated to one motivated not by betterment of life but of profit, greed, corruption, self absorbtion and and overly extreme version of self interst.

    Sadly where did all the super hero ideals people grow up with go.
     
  14. NobodySpecial

    NobodySpecial New Member

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    Heh, I agree, prevention is necessary and if I get sick, I would like to recieve treatment for my illnesses. However, this case not only illustrates the greed and corruption of the insurance companies and the American health care system. It also illustrates that death is a certainty and when it arrives is an uncertainty. We don't know when or how we will go, so it is important to cherish the moment because the next moment, we might not be here. The problem is that we think we have time. I also agree, that humans build themselves in the images they create for themselves. So, it is important to maintain our awareness and build positive images of ourselves and others, while, on the same token, keeping negative images of ourselves and others at bay. Sometimes, this is easier said than done. It is why I think we should not be too hard on ourselves, because when we judge ourselves harshly, we create self hatred and negative self image. We then create ourselves in this negative self image. Though others may judge us harshly, we should never judge ourselves harshly because of the danger of creating self hatred and a negative self image. We should also try to see the good in all people, because by seeing the good in everybody, we are better able to connect with them and hopefully point them in the right direction to a happier, more meaningful life as well as self improvement, or, they might be able to do the same for us. Point us in the direction of a happier, meaningful life, with self improvement.
     
  15. Erudite_Hillbilly

    Erudite_Hillbilly New Member

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    Yet things are worse in countries with health care provided by the state

    Health care is not some unlimited resource. Health care will be rationed by the market or by the state, but make no mistake, it WILL be rationed. The question is, what is the most effective method in delivering health care.
     
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