1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum

The Crystal Ball: Courtesy Of History

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Sihouette, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. Sihouette

    Sihouette Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Whoa! What was that last part again?? Looks like the spoiled rich dragging their feet in times of crises and hoping against hopes that their illusionary world of comfy privelege will continue forever turned out to get them the exact opposite of what they'd hoped for.

    Ironic.. ; )

    Keep fighting away GOP...keep up the hate, the malice the divisiveness. All the while our enemies are watching, waiting, drooling over these great prairies and national riches from sea to shining sea. You are the traitors that are abetting our enemies; whether wilfull or not the result will be the same.

    There goes darned old history, repeating itself as can be predicted like the rising sun..
     
  2. Sihouette

    Sihouette Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The French Revolution:
    Sound familiar?
     
  3. poptart

    poptart New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So are you saying that the "little people" will now rise up and overthrow the ruling class? Just what is the ruling class you speak of?
     
  4. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Move around
    Hey, we've had an election and the Democrats are all in favor of fighting in Afghanistan. Plus, they are spending money on this stimulus plan that we don't have in the Treasury.

    I will agree we have a serious problem with our government in Washington DC - particularly with their fiscal responsibilities. History is replete with stories of the "people" rising up and over-throwing their governments because of high taxation and other similar abuses of the working class. The US Revolutionary War is another example. However, stories like this are like reading predictions by Machiavelli - the seem strangely appropriate, but offer no real solutions.

    Are you suggesting that the working class needs to rise up and overthrow the government and then change our entire form of government? I don't think that is your point. Perhaps you can tell us what we should learn from your history lesson.
     
  5. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,776
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Horse Country
    I would say that the rich elitist are still creating their empires and are not even ashamed that they don't champion equal liability to taxation which was the result of the revolution according to your article.
     
  6. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    7,829
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ....But....due to the pre-War tax-cuts....it was necessary for BUSHCO to finance our goverment with borrowed-bucks (from the Bank O' Bejing), right?

    [​IMG]

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Sihouette

    Sihouette Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Love that picture.

    I wish I had one of those cards, but to qualify it's preferred you have a history of criminal dealings with shady characters and be willing to biff business to the tune of billions before they'll give you one of those!

    Maybe my church pastor was wrong all along! Honesty isn't the best policy for getting ahead?

    I realize some democrats aren't pure as the driven snow. But republicans have made a bold party platform out of impurity and vice so they're easier to finger..
     
  8. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,891
    Likes Received:
    485
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The Golden State
    Isn't it about time to update the Republicard? Maybe put Obama's picture on it and rename it a Democard, or something?
     
  9. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,009
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    land of 10,000 lakes and 2 senators again
    why becuse he is having to deal with Republican failed policy

    Spending money to get econ going, raise GDP, and in end increase money taken in in taxes...


    vs Bush...spend but leave nothing of value with it, and leave the economy off far far worse then when you got it.

    Difference is Obama is banking on this being a investment that pays back or at least cuts losses..Bush just spent more and took in less..

    after 8 years of Bush White House spending...do more americans have jobs? no, more have health care? nope, do we have better roads and bridges? nope, better schools....nope....Bushs 8 years of spending has got us what?
     
  10. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,891
    Likes Received:
    485
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The Golden State
    After eight more years of deficit spending, will we have better roads and bridges, better schools, and more employment?

    I certainly hope so, but, it's going to take a miracle.

    We don't have a choice between fiscal responsibility and deficit spending. What we have is a choice in how to spend what goes on the Mastercard. Are Obama's choices better than Bush's? Most likely, but let's see what happens.
     
  11. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,776
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Horse Country
    Rhetoric
    The downturn in the economy has been building since long before either Bush or Obama took office.

    Do you really think that Obama can increase the GDP and lower the amount of taxes the fed takes in? Well, these are measurable. We will see.

    Troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, various bases in Saudi, etc, detainees in Gitmo, held without trial, etc. Obama has not stopped one of these yet. Perhaps they were all necessary to protect us from an enemy and both Bush and Obama are right to do them.
    Social spending that is irrelevant to the problems of the economy are not an investment in the economy. They are investments in democratic power. How will you measure cuts in job losses? By what date do you expect the trend of the loss of jobs to reverse?
    [/QUOTE]

    The unemployment rate today is still lower than it was in 2000.
    http://www.tucsonaz.gov/planning/data/economic/unemployment.pdf

    The number of people covered by some health care plan has not changed at all from 2000 to now. Since 100% of the population is covered by either private insurance or self-pay or medicaid the amount has not dropped below 100%.

    "The condition of bridges is improving,"
    Federal Highway Administrator Thomas Madison Jr. told the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee hearing.
    http://wcco.com/politics/nation.bridge.repairs.2.814536.html

    I didn't find any statistics or statements on the conditions of roads under the Bush admin.

    "No child left behind" was written by Ted Kennedy.
    http://www.tedkennedy.com/journal/1480/kennedy-on-no-child-left-behind-reauthorization
     
  12. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Move around
    I am really tired of hearing, "the Stimulus Plan maybe not be perfect, but it is better than doing nothing". I hear this from Republicans and Democrats alike - as if it was axiomatic. Then I hear economists say large government spend never "stimulated" the economy - all it did was to create a bigger debt for the taxpayers.

    We hear that most of the money will not be spent in 2009, and the full impact will not occur until after 2010. If I had stopped breathing, I hope someone could come up with a stimulus plan that worked faster than that!

    I think it is time Washington admits they do not know how to stop and correct this economic downturn. Tens of trillions of dollars of wealth have been taken out of the money supply by the fall in house prices and the fall of the stock market. Only time and sound fiscal policies are going to correct that problem.

    It is time to think like a family that has gone into massive debt and now the bank and credit companies are banging at the door. We've all got to start working harder, spending less and tighten our belts. This nation needs a diet of rice and beans for a year to save money and get our nation back on the road to to prosperity.
     
  13. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,790
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The people's republic of Eugene
    If the government would cut back on the stupid programs we could pay less taxes

    if we paid less taxes we would have more money in our pay checks

    if we CONSISTANTLY had more money in our pay checks we could buy more products.

    This would mean more people would have to be hired to make more products, those people would also get pay checks and then you have more people having more pay checks and they would be able to spend more money



    If people have less money they spend less, this means companys lay off workers. That means even less people have less money and are able to spend less, causing more lay offs.

    why is this so hard to understand?
     
  14. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Move around
    Exactly right! If you cut the cost of doing business and take less money out of a worker's paycheck for withholding taxes, our capitalistic society would boom overnight.
     
  15. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    9,891
    Likes Received:
    485
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The Golden State
    It sounds good, and isn't hard to understand at all.

    It is the reason why the tax cuts passed during the last administration were so popular. It is the reason why about a third of the "stimulus" plan is actually tax cuts, not spending proposals as so many seem to think.

    It is the reason why trickle down economics was propounded during the Reagan administration.

    The problem is, cutting taxes while increasing spending will produce a deficit.

    That, too, should be easy to understand.
     
Loading...

Share This Page