The Gaza Strip

[Sihouette]

Hmmm...yes, it would be wonderful if you got an orthodox jew to join this conversation. Properly, we should have several of them on this thread walking me through the nuances of recent weeks in Israel.

By all means...bring them here!

 

[Andy]

Hmmm...yes, it would be wonderful if you got an orthodox jew to join this conversation. Properly, we should have several of them on this thread walking me through the nuances of recent weeks in Israel.

By all means...bring them here!

Well I don't know if he'll come here. But I do happen to know an orthodox Jew, and she has the email of her Rabbi at the synagogue near here. I'll send them an Email to clairify the orthodox jewish posistion on defending their homeland, and "killing" on the Sabbath. If he agrees with you, then perhaps I'll buy your strange theory. Ortherwise, I hope you'll accept the word straight from those actually in that religion, and give up on this.

 

[Sihouette]

Fat chance of that...lol...

The whole reason I want you to get ahold of an orthodox jew is to come here and explain the position of the dominance and subordination of the Commandments of the jewish faith. And you know me...I won't leave a stone unturned in my pursuit to see where men decided to subordinate Yahweh's Big Ten to accomodate their own agendas by inserting the other 613 as "holy exceptions".

So..

That's why I want as many rabbis on this thread as possible. The more the merrier. Maybe you could get them to gang up on me and hit me from all sides with a bunch of scholarly hebrew rhetoric. It could be fun!


You see, I cannot leave off because I am worried about the jewish people of Israel...the real jews...the ones that are bound by faith and not some wishful coalition of some supposed ethnic background when we all know jews come from all walks of life. If that's just the case with Israel, then there's is nothing but a race war. If it's fighting over land boundaries, then what business does the US have stepping in (unless it has its own interests in the alliance for oil; which it does.. ). But no. We're constantly led to believe that Israel has ancient religious rights to the Gaza area and the land of relics of their faith. I'd like to talk with the rabbis about what is more important: following the Ten Commandments or breaking the second one and focusing on "faith as surrounding relics carved from the earth".

Israel itself and Gaza and Palestine and Jerusalem are all "carved of the earth" for that matter. The true Homeland of the jews is and has always been in their hearts, no matter where they are. If they volunatarily leave that Homeland, then they are spiritual nomads and any wind, like the US influence, will blow them far far away from their Native Area.

Give up? On people's very souls? What are you, a spokesman for Beelzebub?

 

[Andy]

Fat chance of that...lol...

The whole reason I want you to get ahold of an orthodox jew is to come here and explain the position of the dominance and subordination of the Commandments of the jewish faith. And you know me...I won't leave a stone unturned in my pursuit to see where men decided to subordinate Yahweh's Big Ten to accomodate their own agendas by inserting the other 613 as "holy exceptions".

So..

Well... what I just read was that you have already decieded what the truth is, and any answer that doesn't fit with what you have pre-determined to be the truth, will be ignored... If that's the case, why should I bother?

If you are going to assume you know more about Judaism than one who actually believe in Judaism and actually teaches it for a living, then you are helplessly lost in your own self-centered walls.

Reminds me of talking to a Muslim who said that all Jews know the truth but perverted it, and all non-muslims and non-jews, can't be trusted since they don't believe in either. In other words, no one anywhere can be trusted to understand faith unless they are Muslims.

Similarly, you are telling me you alone understand Judaism, and any answer from Jews or otherwise, can't be trusted, because you already have it figured out.

That's why I want as many rabbis on this thread as possible. The more the merrier. Maybe you could get them to gang up on me and hit me from all sides with a bunch of scholarly hebrew rhetoric. It could be fun!

I rest my case.

You see, I cannot leave off because I am worried about the jewish people of Israel...the real jews...the ones that are bound by faith and not some wishful coalition of some supposed ethnic background when we all know jews come from all walks of life. If that's just the case with Israel, then there's is nothing but a race war. If it's fighting over land boundaries, then what business does the US have stepping in (unless it has its own interests in the alliance for oil; which it does.. ). But no. We're constantly led to believe that Israel has ancient religious rights to the Gaza area and the land of relics of their faith. I'd like to talk with the rabbis about what is more important: following the Ten Commandments or breaking the second one and focusing on "faith as surrounding relics carved from the earth".

Israel itself and Gaza and Palestine and Jerusalem are all "carved of the earth" for that matter. The true Homeland of the jews is and has always been in their hearts, no matter where they are. If they volunatarily leave that Homeland, then they are spiritual nomads and any wind, like the US influence, will blow them far far away from their Native Area.

Give up? On people's very souls? What are you, a spokesman for Beelzebub?

You want Jews to just accept being killed by random rocket attacks, and then ask if I'm a spokesman for Beelzebub? Pretty easy to demand that others just accept being blown up without warning on a weekly basis, when you don't have to face your friends and neighbors being hit by mortars, eh?

 

[Sihouette]

you have already decieded what the truth is, and any answer that doesn't fit with what you have pre-determined to be the truth, will be ignored... If that's the case, why should I bother?

Uh oh...someone's playing dodge the rabbi bluff...

c'mon! It'll be fun. Love to talk religion with the experts!

The truth isn't something you decide on. When you come to know how that is Grasshopper, you will know Yahweh..

 

[Andy]

Uh oh...someone's playing dodge the rabbi bluff...

c'mon! It'll be fun. Love to talk religion with the experts!

The truth isn't something you decide on. When you come to know how that is Grasshopper, you will know Yahweh..

Sihouette... I had thought you were more rational and open than this. Perhaps I am mistaken about you. The fact you refer to others as grasshopper, suggest you think more highly of your own opinion, than you do what others have to say about the topic.

I can tell you have no interest in the orthodox Jewish position on the topic. You have already decided what you believe is "truth", and nothing will change your opinion from that. You have completely closed off your mind to anything that does not agree with your presupposition.

This pretty much ends the discussion. As well as my interest in you sadly, after all, the conversation ends when you realize your talking to a wall.

Sorry Sih. See you later.

 

[Sihouette]

So this is how the gang wiggles out of an uncomfortable subject eh? Pick up your toys and run off when you've created your opponent to be irrational.

You guys are good!

You're still not getting it Andy. The Ten Commandments aren't negotiable. They are COMMANDMENTS with simple language that doesn't allow for "opinions" "decisions" or revisions of their original meaning...their sacred and indelible Truth.

This discussion is ongoing as much as you've wished now in your last two posts to put it to rest.

The actions in Gaza are reflective of a much larger beast...a larger bastardization of truth....of how the orthodox jews of Israel are being manipulated away from Yahweh and towards eternal damnation..

I'm still waiting for those Rabbis. But in the meantime, maybe you (or others since having lost the debate, you declared yourself the winner, picked up your toys and ran home) could post excerpts from rabbis' thoughts on the matter of interpretation of the Ten Commandments as weighed against recent events in the Gaza area?

 

[Sihouette]

Anyone? Please invite a rabbi here to debate this. I'll try myself. Failing that, perhaps quotes. Let me start with one..

Here, listen to these self-appointed father-son "spokesmen for Yahweh"

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings...

..According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets..

..Eliyahu could not be reached for an interview. However, Eliyahu’s son, Shmuel Eliyahu, who is chief rabbi of Safed, said his father opposed a ground troop incursion into Gaza that would endanger IDF soldiers. Rather, he advocated carpet bombing the general area from which the Kassams were launched, regardless of the price in Palestinian life...


“If they don’t stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand,” said Shmuel Eliyahu. “And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don’t stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop.”...

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. “I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them.”
Source: http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2007/06/01/rabbi-speaks-out-with-moral-clarity/

Come to think of it, it was just at 1,000 they stopped at recently. This article was written in 2007.

How quaint. Quoting Psalms to justify carpet-bombing random people, including women and children who are powerless to stop anything in their neck of the woods..

Quick refresher. Let's visit #6 of the Torah's "Big Ten":

6. Prohibition of Physically Harming a Person
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not murder."
Source: http://www.jewfaq.org/10.htm

[remember, this indescriminate killing recently was being done on the Sabbath, without relent!]

Shabbat is the most important ritual observance in Judaism. It is the only ritual observance instituted in the Ten Commandments. It is also the most important special day, even more important than Yom Kippur. This is clear from the fact that more aliyot (opportunities for congregants to be called up to the Torah) are given on Shabbat than on any other day.

Shabbat is primarily a day of rest and spiritual enrichment. The word "Shabbat" comes from the root Shin-Beit-Tav, meaning to cease, to end, or to rest. Source: http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

Super! Breaking the 6th Commandment on the day of Breaking the 4th. Dissenting Rabbis (if any)? Your thoughts?

 

[Ejgertz]

Israel has the right to protect itself againt terror rocket attacks. This has nothing to do with Iran or oil. It has to do with Israel doing what they have done for decades, protecting themselves from a bunch of morons who want to kill people to get their point across.

 

[Sihouette]

Sure but what does that have to do with orthodox judaism and the conflict between the Commandments and what those rabbis were trying to justify with Psalms?

 

[Sihouette]

Here's a thought out of left field for the mind to ponder.

What if the Lamb Of Yahweh was one of the little kids killed in Gaza recently? Maybe that little girl in the picture on previous pages here?

Imagine the irony: jews indescriminately killing their hoped-for Messiah on the Sabbath...all essentially (when you boil-down the agenda behind "secular jews" in the region) for domination of Bushco oil and the Haifa Pipeline?

Not that they killed the Lamb or anything? But if they did...man...

Yahweh would be P-I-S-S-E-D O-F-F!

 

[Sihouette]

Peter Beaumont in Gaza The Observer, Sunday 1 February 2009 Article historyGaza's 1.5 million people are facing a food crisis as a result of the destruction of great areas of farmland during the Israeli invasion.

According to the World Food Programme, the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation and Palestinian officials, between 35% and 60% of the agriculture industry has been wrecked by the three-week Israeli attack, which followed two years of economic siege.

Christine van Nieuwenhuyse, the World Food Programme's country director, said: "We are hearing that 60% of the land in the north - where the farming was most intensive - may not be exploitable again. It looks to me like a disaster. It is not just farmland, but poultry as well...

..The FAO estimates that 13,000 families who depend directly on herding, farming and fishing have suffered significant damage. "Before the blockade and the attack," said Ahmad Sourani, director of the Agricultural Development Association of Gaza, which runs programmes with charities such as Britain's Christian Aid, "Gaza produced half of its own food. Now that has declined by 25%. In addition, a quarter of the population depends on agriculture for income. What we have seen in large areas of farmland is the destruction of all means of life.
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/01/gaza-food-crisis

Starvation, gassing...what's the difference? Death is death.

I wonder if the jews of Israel will ever see their messiah? Their real enemy lies within the walls of their own temples, within the black hearts of the blasphemers that walk among them every single day. An orthodox jew make look to his left or his right and see the devil in disguise.