The Grid; DEAD-TECH!!!!

[Mr. Shaman]

Well... yet another article detailing some of the problems with respect to the availability of the "Rare Earths" required in renewable energy products:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience...rtageofrareearthelementscouldthwartinnovation

It's interesting to note that only China allows some of the manufacturing processes that are required to refine some of these rare earths. Must be some pretty nasty processes...

We should know......


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[Mr. Shaman]

Try researching Indium and Gallium.

Try researching 60 MINUTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pidgey]

Try researching 60 MINUTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice... but it's not an energy source--it's a conversion unit from a fuel to electricity. It's like a combustion process, but without the conversion to mechanical energy in the middle. But the original source of the energy is still not addressed. That, apparently, is what you haven't yet grasped. The bulk of our total energy comes from high energy density molecules created by the sun thousands or more years ago by way of plants. In effect, they're the ultimate "solar batteries", making "carbohydrates" that later became "hydrocarbons" due to being buried with very little oxygen present. Those processes formed molecules with heats of formation that when reacted with oxygen to produce CO2 and H2O net us energy that we can use. For methane:

(1)CH4 + (2)O2 --> (1)CO2 + 2(H2O) + ENERGY RELEASED

The BloomBox or other "fuel cell" technologies merely provide a surface area that catalyzes that selfsame type of chemical conversion and harvests the released energy in a manner probably a lot cooler than straight combustion. Given that there's a highly porous surface area, your biggest long term problem will likely be keeping contaminants from filling up the tiny holes and choking such systems off.

But you still didn't create energy, you're just converting it from one type to another.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I had this discussion with "Andy" some time ago when he said referring to cars, "We've went about as far a we can go with battery technology."

I tried to remind him that these little Nextel flip phones look and act a whole lot like a once sci-fi Star Trek "communicator" and those microwave ovens are kinda common now too.

But you know the "we can't do any better" crowd... let's nicely call them Republicants. They aren't big on change!

....Those same folks who'd suggested "A horseless-carriage, for everyone??? You're CRAZY!!!!"

As usual....it takes Progressive to drag Conservatives (kicking & screaming) into THE FUTURE!!!!

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[Mr. Shaman]

Nice... but it's not an energy source--it's a conversion unit from a fuel to electricity.

....WITHOUT any need for THE GRID!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pidgey]

....WITHOUT any need for THE GRID!!!!!!!!!!!

That's not actually correct--you're just trading one "grid" for another. The most economical distribution for gaseous hydrocarbons is natural gas, so you'd have to literally lay more gas lines in the ground and then watch the price go sky high because that would be one h*lluva' capital expense, more of an operating expense and we don't have the gas capacity to make up for the coal you're going to try and get away from.

I wish I had a more optimistic answer for you. I do like a couple of these gadgets that you've linked and might even buy some if they get them commercial, cost effective and demonstrate decent reliability. I especially liked that one electrical storage device (that's unlike a conventional battery) but, apparently, it requires an awful lot of elemental sodium. They're going to have a tough time economically making those. D@mmit!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

That's not actually correct--you're just trading one "grid" for another. The most economical distribution for gaseous hydrocarbons is natural gas, so you'd have to literally lay more gas lines....

....Or, use TANKS o' propane or METHANE (...from landfills!!) !!!!!

*

CHECK & MATE!!!!!!!

 

[Pidgey]

....Or, use TANKS o' propane or METHANE (...from landfills!!) !!!!!

*

CHECK & MATE!!!!!!!

"Checkmate"? How? NOW... you're stuck transporting the same fuel to each individual site by... road? In a way that's even more inefficient than what we already have?

"Landfills"? Do yourself a favor and research how much gas we get from landfills--it ain't a lot. Once upon a time, a fellow came to me to design a landfill gas burner for a special application. After reviewing everything, they finally decided it wasn't worth the effort.

Given the IMMENSE quantity of fossil fuels that we as a world are using, you might try taking a look at and getting a handle on the math of that and how these strategies compare to scale. Since you seem to have such a pathological hatred of... whatever, why don't you simply pose your own situational requirements of power needs, and then we can try mathematically working out the cost of one of the present commercially available means of repowering your home so that you can be "off-grid". What might not be possible for the whole world may be possible for you. I have some friends on the island of Bonaire who live "off-grid" and I'm VERY interested in how it's achieved and can be improved.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

NOW... you're stuck transporting the same fuel to each individual site by... road?

Yeah....how dare we ignore the expense of all that COPPER that's used on America's highways & byways.


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[Pidgey]

Yeah....how dare we ignore the expense of all that COPPER that's used on America's highways & byways.


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Yeah, it's worse--blacktop requires oil products to the tune of a lot more actual energy in upkeep than the regular power lines. Most major power distribution isn't done with copper, though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_power_line

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Yeah, it's worse--blacktop requires oil products to the tune of a lot more actual energy in upkeep than the regular power lines.

Everything's temporary.......

.....FORTUNATELY!!!!!!!!!

"Transportation can potentially go in two directions in the future. One is a hydrogen infrastructure for the car, the other one is an electrical infrastructure for the car...plug-in hybrids...Our device can either produce the electricity that'll charge the car or provide you hydrogen if the transportation becomes hydrogen based. So we've sort of become the gas station for the transportation industry."

There's a Full-Circle

for you!!!!!​

 

[Pidgey]

Everything's temporary.......

.....FORTUNATELY!!!!!!!!!

There's a Full-Circle

for you!!!!!​

No, you haven't come full circle at all--you STILL haven't demonstrated a process that will create ANY energy. Zip. Zilch. Na-Da.

And... if you don't start a self-education process or start sincerely asking questions, you're going to keep embarrassing yourself without even realizing it.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Bloom Energy's now in the TOP TEN of ENERGY HEAVY-HITTERS!!!!!!

 

[Phoenix68]

"Even Amazon Is Investing in Hydrogen"​