Deuteronomy 1:13 Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you."
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The Khilafah, is it a choice or required
- Thread starter jb_1430
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Deuteronomy 1:13 Choose some wise, understanding and respected men from each of your tribes, and I will set them over you."
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Coyote
Well-Known Member
That's it?
Consider the following - against Democracy, where Jesus Christ will rule the earth as the "King of kings and Lord of lords"
"Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a Name inscribed which no one knows but Himself. He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the Name by which He is called is The Word of God . And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, followed Him on white horses . From His mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; He will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On His robe and on His thigh He has a Name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords" (Revelation 19:11-16 RSV)
What politically correct bull shiite. The terror ideology is part of the religion. And Im not using the historical and scriptural evidence and applying it to the people of today. But instead have shown the Muslims today who are pulling up these scriptures and historical evidence to guide their actions today.
This insistance that we not examine this doctrine that motivates this worldwide campaign of Islamic terrorism, to avoid offending the moderate muslims, only prolongs the moderates ability to avoid addressing the real issues within their religion.Allows them to continue to pretend the problem isnt there. Ensuring that Islam doesnt reform from within, but instead continues on as it has for 1400 years.
One of many. I dont see how revelation's prophecies have any impact on the government to be applied today. If Jesus comes back, then you will have an arguement.
Coyote
Well-Known Member
Here is an interesting article on democracy and Christianity:
http://www.albatrus.org/english/goverment/democracy/failure_of_democracy.htm
JavaBlack
Well-Known Member
...
Muslims will reform from within when they feel like it. All your blabbering does is encourage them NOT to by throwing them in the same bundle as the enemy. Islamophobes do not accept any reform nor any moderate stance as legitimate, but simply as cover-ups for extremism.
You claim that the evil is inherent to the scripture WHICH MAKES REFORM IMPOSSIBLE.
Setting impossible criteria does not incite change.
Reality is what reforms religion ultimately, not the encouragement of division by self-ordained theocrats of religions they don't even belong to. Reform will come when Muslims reinterpret their own texts, not when you attempt to point out how they are unambiguously evil.
There's no problem with analyzing a religion or scriptures... but when you use your analysis in a way that simply increases division along religious lines, do not decieve yourself into thinking you are helping along reform.
You are taking what violent fundies do today, using history and scripture to back yourself up (completely unnecessary if today's info is enough), and applying it to ALL MUSLIMS. So if a Muslim speaks against violence... well I don't know... Are you the "It's not enough" type or the "they have to lie to infidels" type? Either way I've met your type before. The obsession with scripture leads me to guess you are the second type.
Muslims will reform from within when they feel like it. All your blabbering does is encourage them NOT to by throwing them in the same bundle as the enemy. Islamophobes do not accept any reform nor any moderate stance as legitimate, but simply as cover-ups for extremism.
You claim that the evil is inherent to the scripture WHICH MAKES REFORM IMPOSSIBLE.
Setting impossible criteria does not incite change.
Reality is what reforms religion ultimately, not the encouragement of division by self-ordained theocrats of religions they don't even belong to. Reform will come when Muslims reinterpret their own texts, not when you attempt to point out how they are unambiguously evil.
There's no problem with analyzing a religion or scriptures... but when you use your analysis in a way that simply increases division along religious lines, do not decieve yourself into thinking you are helping along reform.
Seems like quite a stretch to interpret "In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as he saw fit" as describing a Democracy. More like anarchy and lawlessness.
Coyote
Well-Known Member
Less of a stretch then your one thin line.
Ohh Im not saying Christianity created democracy. Just that it was a framework from which Democracy could be created.
And you are delusional. YOU merely interpret any criticism of their doctrine as criticism of "ALL MUSLIMS". Perhaps, more of a reflection of your inability to separate the doctrine, from those who claim to be followers.
Coyote
Well-Known Member
You ARE critisizing all muslims because you imply their doctrine is fundamentally flawed and not open to interpretation.
Coyote
Well-Known Member
That is just as big a stretch considering there is much more in the bible that goes against democracy then one line that allows them to choose their own leader.
Oddly enough....there are those that think Islam contains the framework from which Democracy could be created...
Most people would be shocked if they were told that the Quran supports the eight principles of western democracy as outlined in Today’s Ism’s by William Ebenstein and Edwin Fogelman. Yet that is the thesis of this paper. What currently passes for Islam as practiced by the majority of Muslims is a form of religious dogma in contradiction to the teachings of the Quran.....http://www.submission.org/democracy.html
So there you have it. In your world their doctrine is immune from criticism. No flaws can be identified because we might offend the Muslims.
Sooo are you concerned with hurting their feelings, or are you concerned they might all go jihad on our a s s ?
JavaBlack
Well-Known Member
..
jb, how can you expect reform when you are claiming that the basis of the religion is inherently corrupt and you will not accept any reinterpretation of it... despite the fact that many Muslims have offered them?
You expect nothing less than a total denouncement of scriptures and of the Muhammed figure rather than a reinterpretation... This is not reform. This is destruction of the religion... And if that is your goal, why should any Muslim listen to you?
You do more harm than good when you deny the sincerity of Muslims that try to interpret Islam as a religion of peace. These are the Muslims that should be encouraged. They are the ones who can reform Islam... not you and not me.
Coyote summarized my response in fewer words than I would have used.
jb, how can you expect reform when you are claiming that the basis of the religion is inherently corrupt and you will not accept any reinterpretation of it... despite the fact that many Muslims have offered them?
You expect nothing less than a total denouncement of scriptures and of the Muhammed figure rather than a reinterpretation... This is not reform. This is destruction of the religion... And if that is your goal, why should any Muslim listen to you?
You do more harm than good when you deny the sincerity of Muslims that try to interpret Islam as a religion of peace. These are the Muslims that should be encouraged. They are the ones who can reform Islam... not you and not me.
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Coyote
Well-Known Member
Where did I say that?
