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the left and right wont unite

Discussion in 'Elections & Political Parties' started by Pandora, Mar 29, 2009.

  1. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    People are starting to realize that we are not going to get along. A number of people voted for obama thinking he could unite the party's and we would be able to work together exc. exc. Now they are starting to see it just isn’t gonna happen.

    People like me always knew it was not going to happen. I am glad more are opening their eyes, maybe now we can go to plan B... what ever that is!

    It's pretty telling that Half of U.S. voters (50%) now believe President Barack Obama is governing as a partisan Democrat. Some of us already knew that, glad to know others have noticed.



    58% Now Expect More Partisanship in Washington

    Sunday, March 29, 2009

    Fifty-eight percent (58%) of voters now think politics in Washington, D.C. will be more partisan over the next year rather than more cooperative. That’s up from 49% a month ago, 40% two months ago, and 34% in early January.

    The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 26% expect things to be more cooperative. That’s down from 48% in early January.

    Half of U.S. voters (50%) now believe President Barack Obama is governing as a partisan Democrat. That’s up seven points from a month ago and eleven points from two months ago.

    But voters continue to think Congress is acting on a more partisan basis than the president.
    Sixty-four percent (64%) now say congressional Democrats are acting like partisan Democrats, while 20% say they’re bipartisan.
    As for Republicans in Congress, 57% of voters say they’re acting like partisan Republicans. Twenty percent (20%) say their actions are bipartisan.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...58_now_expect_more_partisanship_in_washington
     
  2. samsara15

    samsara15 Member

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    GW Bush was the most partisan President in my lifetime, which goes back to the time of Roosevelt. Republican led Congresses were fiercely partisan as well. Did you really expect the partisanship to go away? Not even the most naive person should have expected that to happen. What goes around comes around.

    Extreme partisanship goes back to the very earles days of this nation.
     
  3. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    obama said he could unite them. A number of those who voted for him who were not already partisan democrats did so becasue they believed in his promiss to unite them. People like me said it is not going to happen and people like me were shot down for saying it. It seems people like me were right... so far.
     
  4. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Partisanship in Washington DC? Why, I never heard of such a thing! Partisanship there must be as rare as water in Niagra Falls, as strange as sand in the Mojave, and as unheard of as Republicans in Texas or Democrats in San Francisco. Surely, there can't be partisanship in the capitol, can there?
     
  5. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Yes there is and obama campaigned on being able to end it. He did not end it, in fact its worse. People who bought into the “hope” and “change” said people like me were wrong and “yes he can” change it but he couldn’t. So people like me were not wrong for knowing he couldn’t and or wouldn’t.

    But you pretend the story is … oh my gosh!!! People in Washington are partisan” SHOCK!

    Instead of what I am really posting about, the fact that people like me caught a lot of crap from obama supporters for saying he could not and would not change a damn thing where partisan politics were concerned except for making it worse. And we were right.
     
  6. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, so that was the hope and change he was campaigning on. Hope we can end partisanship in Washington, and change the climate in DC to a non partisan one. I wondered just what he meant, and now I know.

    Here, I thought he meant we'd all be in the streets begging for change once his economic policies were put into place.
     
  7. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Did someone hack into your account? that almost sounds like negative words against obama :eek:
     
  8. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    It did, didn't it?

    I'm not a supporter of the big government agenda, BTW. I ranted about Bush growing the government, and Obama is now doing the same, only more so. That was predictable, of course, but then, McCain would likely have done the same thing, so we had little choice there.

    I think he has done some good things, too, like stating unequivocally that the US doesn't torture, and changing the focus of the war on terror away from Iraq and into Afganistan, where it should have been all along, for example.

    While we would most likely have been better off not to have bailed out failing companies with borrowed dollars, at least there are some strings attached that weren't there when the Bush Administration did the same thing.

    Like most presidents, he is a mixed bag of issues I agree with, and some I don't. Luckily for us, his power is limited by the Constitution, as was that of his predecessor.

    Much of what his political enemies have said about him is pure nonsense, but the current government is still growing exponentially. That is the issue on which we have to focus now.
     
  9. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    If you think that obama is going to let the constitution get in his way, you are wrong. But you won’t believe me till it’s too late to do anything about it. The signs are there that he won’t let it get in his way if you are willing to see them.

    I don’t like torture at all but I am also realistic, there are certain times that you probably would have to torture someone to get important information. I don’t think torture should be the "norm” I would hope if it ever happened at all it was very very rare. But to say no matter what we will never yell at a prisoner, deny them sleep or stick bright lights in their face is just letting the terrorists know that we are dumb. They don’t care how “humane” you think you are, they just care how easy to kill you are.


    You don’t like wasteful spending right? What do you think of the department of homeland security? It’s a cab position that was created to fight terrorism. The new president doesn’t like that word terrorism and his pick for the job Janet Napolitano won’t even say the word terrorist.

    Don’t you think we could save millions by just shutting the dumb department down? If they can’t even muster up the word terrorism, how the hell are they going to fight it, we should just give up on it till we get a new president who is not afraid of the word or the problem.

    And why do you want him to put more guys in Afghanistan? What are we looking for? What is the plan? We sure as hell are not looking for terrorists, we don’t say that word anymore and what exactly do you do in an 'Overseas Contingency Operation.'

    The word contingency alone freaks me out. Is he talking about a philosophy? Cuz if he is then im double confused.

    In philosophy and logic, contingency is the status of propositions that are not necessarily true or necessarily false. Here are four classes of propositions, some of which overlap:

    necessarily true propositions, which must be true, no matter what the circumstances are or could be (examples: 2 + 2 = 4; All bachelors are unmarried).
    necessarily false propositions, which must be false, no matter what the circumstances are or could be (examples: 2 + 2 = 5; Anne is both taller than and shorter than Brad).
    contingent propositions, which are not necessarily true and not necessarily false (examples: There are only three planets; There are more than three planets).
    possible propositions, which are true or could have been true given certain circumstances (examples: 2 + 2 = 4; There are only three planets; There are more than three planets). All necessarily true propositions, and all contingent propositions, are also possible propositions.
    Usually, necessary proposition is understood to mean necessarily true proposition.

    And if that is not bad enough the definition is not much better...

    Definition of contingency at Dictionary.com

    1. dependence on chance or on the fulfillment of a condition; uncertainty; fortuitousness: Nothing was left to contingency.
    2. a contingent event; a chance, accident, or possibility conditional on something uncertain: He was prepared for every contingency.
    3. something incidental to a thing.


    We use the word contingency at my work. When someone in the classified department calls in sick we go on contingency plan. That means the remaining people do a half ass job doing everything till that person comes back or 4 days what ever comes first.


    It was strange to see you say something so negative about obama, I am not used to it but I liked it :)
     
  10. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    What pres has allowed the Constitution to get in his way? Bush most certainly didn't, and it's unlikely that Obama will, either.

    I'm not sure it was very rare, but I'm sure it was counter productive in the war against Islamic extremism. It should never have been done, and I salute the end of it.


    Yes, shut it down. Shut down the Department of Education. Shut down everything that is no more than wasteful spending and an unnecessary expansion of government. Absolutely.

    Government always invents language that means nothing to the average person. If we go into Afganistan and go after Bin Laden and his fellow cockroaches, then go home, I don't care if they call it an expedition to rediscover Atlantis, so long as they go in, root out Al Qaeda, then go home and let Afganistan solve its problems in peace.



    I'm an equal opportunity pres basher. Had McCain won, I'd be ranting about his out of control spending and growth of government.

    Do you doubt that we would still have out of control spending and growth of government had he won?

    But, when I read nonsense about how Obama is a Marxist, or a Muslim, or whatever nonsense is being spread around on rant radio, I recognize it for what it is: Simply silly partisanship.
     
  11. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    I can't tell if you're being serious...


    Didn't you get the memo? After making great political hay about how G Dubya was distracted and not going after Bin Laden, after promising that if elected Obama would go after Bin Laden... Obama got into office and said Bin Laden was no longer a primary target.

    When Bush said that, he was blasted incessantly... Now that Obama has said it, nobody seems to care that we're not going after Bin Laden.

    Defend Obama as being a Capitalist... defend him as being a believer in individual rights, free markets, limited government...

    If you cannot do those things, then please label his ideology. I'm eager to hear where you think he fits in on the political spectrum.

    Now you shouldn't have to guess what his ideology is, but he has spent so much time hiding it from the American people, we are forced to guess. In his books, he says he likes Marxist Radicals, those are the people he sought out, those are the people he gravitated towards and spent time learning from. We know his pastor was a teacher and follower of Black Liberation Theology - rooted in Marxism - yet you think calling Obama a Marxist is just silly partisanship. So where do you see Obama on the political spectrum?
     
  12. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Wait a second here…. You said in your previous post “Luckily for us, his power is limited by the Constitution, as was that of his predecessor.”
    But now you are saying something different, please clarify.



    I thank God most American men do not think like you, and I really thank God our founders did not think like you. We would all be speaking German by now and Jewish people would be an extinct race if men thought like you.



    So are you being sarcastic? Did you not like the question? Or do you really think we should shut it all down. I tend to think you are ok with most government programs and I feel like I hit a nerve.

    I don’t think going in Afghanistan is going to work, if we catch someone and ask them nice like, please tell us where Ben Laden is.. umm the guy isn’t going to tell us and we cant raise our voices to him or he might get an ACLU attorney to sue us. We just need to give up on the idea. Obama should take his toys and go home and we should wait for someone who is serious about it to do what ever needs to be done.



    I think if McCain were president I would be irritated daily by him and I think he would spend more than I wanted him to spend but no where near what is happening now.

    This might surprise you but I think it is better that Obama won over McCain. McCain would just give conservatives a bad name and republicans too. This way there is another shot in 2012 with a real conservative.

    There is no nonsense about obama being a Marxist, read his frakin book for god’s sake, he brags about it. As for the Muslim thing, that’s old. 10 people or maybe 12 thought he was a Muslim and those were frakin democrats for Hillary. The racist Muslim crap is old and over used, the Marxist stuff is worth debating though, we can pull sections of his book where he brags about all his friends were Marxist and communists and that is who he sought out for friends, we can talk about his admiration for a painter who was an open communist in Hawaii that he learned so much from. And his admiration for Saul Alinsky. It could be fun.
     
  13. samsara15

    samsara15 Member

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    We have had several decades of Right Wing foreign and economic policy. We are now facing the consequences of that policy.

    If a little bit of balance bothers you people, you need to get your feet back on the ground.

    Is Obama out of balance? Yes. You are very naive if you expected otherwise.

    Where is the Center? It has been redefined several times in the past hundred years...by Teddy Roosevelt, by Frankie Roosevelt, by Reagan, by Bush, and now once again. It is an imaginary point, folks.
     
  14. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Obama, in the G20 summit, just signed away America's sovereignty by putting all our banks, financial institutions and other industries vital to the economy (all of which he himself nationalized) under the control of international bankers located outside our shores.

    America is now a slave state to the IMF and World Bank...

    But be sure to call anyone who mentions concerns about a One World Government a crackpot and loon.
     
  15. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    His power is limited by the Constitution so long as we insist he abide by it.

    You may have a point, though, that the Constitution has been so trampled on by now that it is not protection at all. If that is so, then we're really screwed.


    Most American men are OK with our military torturing prisoners? I don't think so, not if they stop to think about the ramifications of such a departure from American values.



    I know you think I'm a flaming liberal since I don't go along with all of the Obamabashing, and since I thought (and still think) that Bush was worse by far than Obama, but that just isn't my philosophy at all. I'd shut down about half of the federal government if I could, the half that was never authorized by the Constitution. I' start with the Department of Education.

    Here is my philosophy, posted on my first thread on this forum. I see you already read it and responded.

    If we approach it that way, maybe not. How about, we're out to get the **&&!!s who are ruining your country. Are you willing to help us? We'll never mention your name to the authorities"

    Of course, it may be too late now. We should have gone in, gotten the bastards, tried them for war crimes, and been long gone by now.





    I would be too, probably just as irritated as I am with the big spender in office now, and the one who he replaced. I think there are some positives about Obama, though, that we wouldn't have had with McCain.

    The first part doesn't surprise me at all, but just who do you think the real conservative is who might actually have a shot in '12?


    Obama is no more a Commie than he is a terrorist or the AntiChrist. That's just nonsense.
     
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