the left and right wont unite

[pocketfullofshells]

The Republicans have been very non partisan since the election

The fact that the Republicans will not listen , or do anything, does not mean he has not tried...They have made little of no effort to show they will work with him, so how much should he be expected to do ...

 

[Pandora]

His power is limited by the Constitution so long as we insist he abide by it.

You may have a point, though, that the Constitution has been so trampled on by now that it is not protection at all. If that is so, then we're really screwed. .

I will agree with the “we are really screwed part”

Most American men are OK with our military torturing prisoners? I don't think so, not if they stop to think about the ramifications of such a departure from American values. .

I think most Americans are against the idea of torture if you just ask them in that way, but if you described who this guy is you want information from and then asked average people how far are you willing to go to get this information? Are you willing to deny them sleep, most would say yes. Are you willing to yell and scream at them and threaten them… depending on the guy and the kind of information we are trying to get most would say yes, we could go on and on.. but I think people would be willing to do what you might deem as torture to protect and defend our country, troops and way of life in some cases.

No one except crazy people want or like torture but most Americans I think would be willing to go further with certain people to get certain information.

I know you think I'm a flaming liberal since I don't go along with all of the Obamabashing, and since I thought (and still think) that Bush was worse by far than Obama, but that just isn't my philosophy at all. I'd shut down about half of the federal government if I could, the half that was never authorized by the Constitution. I' start with the Department of Education.

Here is my philosophy, posted on my first thread on this forum. I see you already read it and responded. .

I thought at that time you were a moderate… now I don’t know what I think and really does it matter what I think anyways. But I don’t think your moderate anymore. No one can take part in so much bashing of one Party and its President while getting angry or unhappy at the bashing of another party and its president for the same type of stuff on each side and be considered moderate.

If we approach it that way, maybe not. How about, we're out to get the **&&!!s who are ruining your country. Are you willing to help us? We'll never mention your name to the authorities"

Of course, it may be too late now. We should have gone in, gotten the bastards, tried them for war crimes, and been long gone by now. .

It might be too late but I think its more about who is doing it. I don’t consider obama someone who can fight terrorism, terrorist or even stand up to it. Hell man, the guy doesn’t even want to use the word terror unless he is talking about a republican. Its better to wait till we have someone who can do it than try it and fail with someone who is not up to that challenge.

I would be too, probably just as irritated as I am with the big spender in office now, and the one who he replaced. I think there are some positives about Obama, though, that we wouldn't have had with McCain. .

I honestly can not think of one thing about obama in the positive, I could a couple of things about Bush and I probably could find something good about Clinton but I could not about obama. I could not find one good thing to say about John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) either.

The first part doesn't surprise me at all, but just who do you think the real conservative is who might actually have a shot in '12? .

Who knows who it will be. I still like Mitt Romney but I would like someone else more if they had his good qualities but were also more conservative than him.

Obama is no more a Commie than he is a terrorist or the AntiChrist. That's just nonsense.

That is easy for you to type but it means little on its own. How about you explain what he meant in his books when writing about these types of people he admired so much. That would have more meaning than just saying its not so.

 

[GenSeneca]

Obama is no more a Commie than he is a terrorist or the AntiChrist. That's just nonsense.

Commie? Who the F said he was a commie? Drop the Terrorist and Anti-Christ stuff too cuz that's just you setting up strawmen....

Has Obama repeatedly praised the Marxist ideology or not?

If not Marxist, what ideology would you say he prescribes to?

Name another ideology that he has openly praised...

 

[PLC1]

I thought at that time you were a moderate… now I don’t know what I think and really does it matter what I think anyways. But I don’t think your moderate anymore. No one can take part in so much bashing of one Party and its President while getting angry or unhappy at the bashing of another party and its president for the same type of stuff on each side and be considered moderate.

I am not a moderate. My views are quite immoderate, in fact. Some are from the "right", some from the "left", some from the "center". There is no such thing as a liberal to conservative continuum, but instead a collection of unrelated issues. Yes, I spent a lot of time railing about Bush. I'm willing to go along with bashing Obama, too, but let's keep it real. Why do his detractors think they have to make up things in order to oppose him? Can't they just oppose him based on his policies? C'mon, let's bash that 3.6 trillion budget!

It might be too late but I think its more about who is doing it. I don’t consider obama someone who can fight terrorism, terrorist or even stand up to it. Hell man, the guy doesn’t even want to use the word terror unless he is talking about a republican. Its better to wait till we have someone who can do it than try it and fail with someone who is not up to that challenge.

You don't fight terrorism with military force only. You fight terrorism with diplomacy and with politics. You fight it with education.

You don't go riding after the bad guys with six guns blazing and expect to be taken seriously.

I honestly can not think of one thing about obama in the positive, I could a couple of things about Bush and I probably could find something good about Clinton but I could not about obama. I could not find one good thing to say about John Freaking Kerry (who served in Vietnam) either.

I think he has vastly improved the image of the US abroad, especially with nations that we should have as allies. You might disagree, or think that our image isn't important.

Who knows who it will be. I still like Mitt Romney but I would like someone else more if they had his good qualities but were also more conservative than him.

Yes, I voted for Mitt in the primary. He has more experience with bringing financially failing entities back into the black than any of them. He is more likely to respect the Constitution than anyone else running from either party. Unfortunately, his religion became an issue, which it never should have been.

That is easy for you to type but it means little on its own. How about you explain what he meant in his books when writing about these types of people he admired so much. That would have more meaning than just saying its not so.

I can't prove a negative, so can't prove that Obama isn't a Communist. I can't prove he isn't the AntiChrist, or a Muslim terrorist, or any of the other things that he has been accused of being.

He is a big government statist, of course, as is McCain and Bush, and most of the others who were running.

We didn't have a choice of a real conservative, and haven't for some time now.

 

[PLC1]

Commie? Who the F said he was a commie? Drop the Terrorist and Anti-Christ stuff too cuz that's just you setting up strawmen....

Has Obama repeatedly praised the Marxist ideology or not?

If not Marxist, what ideology would you say he prescribes to?

Name another ideology that he has openly praised...

See Pandora's post, just above yours. See you own, for that matter. Just what do you think a Marxist is, anyway, if not a Communist? Do you see a difference in those terms? If so, then, OK, I'll start using Marxist instead.

One would think that saying that the American President isn't a Communist, isn't a terrorist, and isn't the AntiChrist would be a strawman, wouldn't you, and yet all of those accusations have been made by his political enemies.

 

[GenSeneca]

One would think that saying that the American President isn't a Communist, isn't a terrorist, and isn't the AntiChrist would be a strawman, wouldn't you, and yet all of those accusations have been made by his political enemies.

Not by me, and not by Pandora... There is a different between Marxist and Communist, just as there is a difference between Socialism and Communism.

Obama has repeatedly praised the ideology espoused by Karl Marx, Apparently you haven't read enough Marx to differentiate his ideology from that of Lenin.... So how is it that you can claim Obama is NOT a Marxist when you don't even know what a Marxist believes?

Look up Lenin, he's the dude that founded the militant statist ideology that you know as Communism...

Then look up Marx... the touchy-feely-bleeding heart concerned with social justice and a "Progressive" concept of "Fairness".

 

[Pandora]

See Pandora's post, just above yours. See you own, for that matter. Just what do you think a Marxist is, anyway, if not a Communist? Do you see a difference in those terms? If so, then, OK, I'll start using Marxist instead..

Instead of just saying he is not, he is not. Explain for me what he means then when he praises these people who hold this world views. Just saying he is not is not a good argument. When I say I think he is a Marxist, I give you examples of things he has either said or done that gives me reasons to believe it. I am not just saying he is so.

One would think that saying that the American President isn't a Communist, isn't a terrorist, and isn't the AntiChrist would be a strawman, wouldn't you, and yet all of those accusations have been made by his political enemies.

Its a straw man because no one in this conversation is saying he is a terrorist or AntiChrist blah blah. Why not just stick with what we are actually saying and work with that?

 

[PLC1]

Since neither Pandora nor Genseca have actually outlined their arguments for Obama as a Marxist, I looked it up and found someone else who argues just that point. Let's see if they agree with this:

To my poor misguided friend "Romare". I would love for your statement "To think that a Marxist could become the candidate for president of one of our two major parties and that tens of millions of Americans would vote for him is beyond ludicrous" to be true, and if you and your misguided liberal friends around the states actually opened your eyes and did some non-biased research, it could become true.

Unfortunately I see further evidence of the decline of the American intelligence every day, particularly on this website.

Marx described his steps as necessary steps to be taken to destroy a free enterprise society, and unfortunately we're well on our way already, but Obama would take it a step further.

But just to humor myself, let's compare Obama's platform and Marx's. Obviously not ALL of Marx's doctrine is included in Obama's, so I will focus on the things that are:

1. A heavy progressive or graduated incometax - Exactly what Obama has proposed - tax cuts for the middle classes and tax increases for the wealthy. Essentially he wants to level people's incomes so that no one makes significantly more or less than anyone else, such that the lazy and the hardworking earn the same.

2. Equal liability of all to labor. - Obama has long been very pro-labor union, which is basically what this aspect of Marxism calls for.

Of course Obama is pretty blatant and obvious in his call (and Hillary was the same to be fair) for socialized medicine. I agree our health care system needs an overhaul, but the government can barely handle running the Post Office - I don't want them in complete control of my health. That's to say nothing of the fact that I (who pay for my family's health care on my own) should not have to pay (in the form of increased taxes (and no I am not wealthy at all)) for the health care of people who made poor choices - single mothers with 5 kids from 5 different dads, drug users, etc. You can call me harsh and uncaring, but at the end of the day I take responsibility for my actions and choices and so should everyone else. Everyone makes mistakes, but our actions from those mistakes is what counts and many people simply choose to keep making poor choices and that is a burden that should not fall to the taxpayers!

Of course the following of Marx's doctrine are ALREADY in place, so Obama doesn't have to promote them:

1. Free education for all children in public schools

2. Abolition of all rights of inheritance - pretty much accomplished by heavy taxation

3. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State - since the Fed pretty much controls all banking, reserves and interest rates.

To summarize our discussion:

Obama is not a Muslim Terrorist. That is a "strawman" that neither of them believes.

Obama is not the AntiChrist. No one has said that since the election, at least.

Is Obama a Marxist? That argument is still on the table.

To make in interesting, how about Obama as the culprit fro the current economic troubles? Are we, or are we not, still making that allegation?

 

[Pandora]

Since neither Pandora nor Genseca have actually outlined their arguments for Obama as a Marxist, I looked it up and found someone else who argues just that point. Let's see if they agree with this:



To summarize our discussion:

Obama is not a Muslim Terrorist. That is a "strawman" that neither of them believes.

Obama is not the AntiChrist. No one has said that since the election, at least.

Is Obama a Marxist? That argument is still on the table.

To make in interesting, how about Obama as the culprit fro the current economic troubles? Are we, or are we not, still making that allegation?

You just did it again

Obama is not a Muslim? WHO THE FRAK SAID HE WAS? YOU KEEP SAYING THAT AS THOUGH I OR SOMEONE IS SUGGESTING IT BUT NO ONE HAS EXCEPT FOR YOU.

Obama is not the anti Christ? WHO THE FRAK SAID HE WAS? YOU KEEP SAYING THAT AS THOUGH I OR SOMEONE IS SUGGESTING IT BUT NO ONE HAS EXCEPT FOR YOU.

All of the people in Obama’s past who he has said he admired were all Marxists, can you name any who were not. Even the people he hung out with in school. He said he looked actively sought out Marxist in school to hang with.


His pastor of 20 years
Sol Alinsky
His friend in Hawaii that he said helped shape his world view, well wait that guy was a plain communist
His friend bill ayers open Marxist
His wife

Can you think of anyone in his life history who he spoke about or wrote about effected his political thinking that was not a Marxist?

 

[Popeye]

Obama is not the anti Christ? WHO THE FRAK SAID HE WAS? YOU KEEP SAYING THAT AS THOUGH I OR SOMEONE IS SUGGESTING IT BUT NO ONE HAS EXCEPT FOR YOU.

Nobody? Maybe you haven't..but it's been said or insinuated repeatedly by nut cases that reside on the right.

From the tea party in Madison Wisconsin...

 

[PLC1]

You just did it again

Obama is not a Muslim? WHO THE FRAK SAID HE WAS? YOU KEEP SAYING THAT AS THOUGH I OR SOMEONE IS SUGGESTING IT BUT NO ONE HAS EXCEPT FOR YOU.

Obama is not the anti Christ? WHO THE FRAK SAID HE WAS? YOU KEEP SAYING THAT AS THOUGH I OR SOMEONE IS SUGGESTING IT BUT NO ONE HAS EXCEPT FOR YOU.

All of the people in Obama’s past who he has said he admired were all Marxists, can you name any who were not. Even the people he hung out with in school. He said he looked actively sought out Marxist in school to hang with.


His pastor of 20 years
Sol Alinsky
His friend in Hawaii that he said helped shape his world view, well wait that guy was a plain communist
His friend bill ayers open Marxist
His wife

Can you think of anyone in his life history who he spoke about or wrote about effected his political thinking that was not a Marxist?

No, I didn't do it again. I said:

Obama is not a Muslim Terrorist. That is a "strawman" that neither of them believes.

Obama is not the AntiChrist. No one has said that since the election, at least.

So I just said that no one on this forum at least is saying that he is a Muslim terrorist or the AntiChrist. Of course, as Poeye's picture shows, those allegations have been made.

So, let's take that one off of the table. That's what I said.

Now, as for the Communist Manifesto, Carl Marx's statement of philosophy, I'm still wondering whether he is a Communist. Someone above did say that Marxism and Communism were two different things, so, maybe Marx's work was the Socialist Manifesto, or perhaps the Liberal Manifesto.

But, as for the philosophy from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs, we all know by now that such a philosophy doesn't work in the real world.

Is giving bailouts to large corporations Marxism? It is giving to those according to their needs, while ignoring corporations that actually make a profit. Maybe that is what makes Obama a Communist/Marxist.

How about the graduated income tax? You might just be able to argue that the income tax, as currently instituted, is Marxist, but that didn't start with Obama. Maybe every pres in the past 60 or so years was a Marxist. By that logic, they all were. Of course, the famous and often repeated statement about "spreading the wealth around" was referring to the graduated income tax, so we know he supports that idea. Does that make Obama a Marxist?

Now, was Obama responsible for the current economic crisis? Does anyone believe that one?

And don't call it a strawman. That was one of the allegations made right after the election, and don't say it wasn't. Don't make me come down there and prove it, or you'll be wiping egg off your collective faces once again.

 

[GenSeneca]

So I just said that no one on this forum at least is saying that he is a Muslim terrorist or the AntiChrist. Of course, as Poeye's picture shows, those allegations have been made.

Made by who? An ACORN plant sent to the audience to stir trouble for those at the TEA parties... One wack job who had a Bush is Hitler sign when Bush was in office... Popeye himself?

Bush is Hitler... How many of those signs did you see at left wing rallies where political mercenaries like ACORN were paid to protest? I don't recall Popeye or any of the other Progressives feeling the need to defend themselves from the crazies who showed up at their rallies.

Its a free country and all kinds of people show up. Popeye, and the MSM, are simply trying to stereotype everyone who was there as racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, nut-jobs because they cannot respond intellectually to the messege... All they know how to do is attack the messengers.

Someone above did say that Marxism and Communism were two different things..

Pay close attention to what I'm saying since you totally missed it last time...

Karl Marx, author of the Communist Manifesto, followed a very differnt ideology from that of Vladmir Lennin. Lenninism is what you came to know as Communism, the big military parades, the iron curtain, gulags, and all the other dictatorial expressions of a statist regime.

Karl Marx had an ultimate goal, Utopian Socialism. In order to obtain that goal, Marx saw a strong centralized government as the quickest means to reach that end. Grow government to where it can destroy the "shackles" of Capitalism, religion and traditoin, then disband the centralized government.

Like I said, read the writings of Marx and not just his manifesto. Read about Lennin and his vision for a Soviet Super State. Lennin thought Marx went wrong by wanting to abolish the strong centralized government once capitalism, religion and tradition were gone... because once those were gone, controlling the population would be so much easier.

Here is a quote from Lennin: "It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed."

Marx: "The state is based on this contradiction. It is based on the contradiction between public and private life, between universal and particular interests. For this reason, the state must confine itself to formal, negative activities."

Just for contrast, here's a quote from Obama, complaining that the Constitution places limits on government and impedes the redistribution of wealth:

"The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as I think people tried to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, as least as it's been interpreted, and Warren Court interpreted in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties, says what the states can't do to you, says what the federal government can't do to you, but it doesn't say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted."

But, as for the philosophy from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs, we all know by now that such a philosophy doesn't work in the real world.

You are being naive if you think everyone understands that such a philosophy is doomed to fail. Next time you hear one of the Progressives complaining that the rich don't pay their "fair" share, realize that they are pushing for that philosophy of massive wealth redistribution.

 

[Pandora]

Made by who? An ACORN plant sent to the audience to stir trouble for those at the TEA parties... One wack job who had a Bush is Hitler sign when Bush was in office... Popeye himself?

Bush is Hitler... How many of those signs did you see at left wing rallies where political mercenaries like ACORN were paid to protest? I don't recall Popeye or any of the other Progressives feeling the need to defend themselves from the crazies who showed up at their rallies.

Its a free country and all kinds of people show up. Popeye, and the MSM, are simply trying to stereotype everyone who was there as racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, nut-jobs because they cannot respond intellectually to the messege... All they know how to do is attack the messengers.


Pay close attention to what I'm saying since you totally missed it last time...

Karl Marx, author of the Communist Manifesto, followed a very differnt ideology from that of Vladmir Lennin. Lenninism is what you came to know as Communism, the big military parades, the iron curtain, gulags, and all the other dictatorial expressions of a statist regime.

Karl Marx had an ultimate goal, Utopian Socialism. In order to obtain that goal, Marx saw a strong centralized government as the quickest means to reach that end. Grow government to where it can destroy the "shackles" of Capitalism, religion and traditoin, then disband the centralized government.

Like I said, read the writings of Marx and not just his manifesto. Read about Lennin and his vision for a Soviet Super State. Lennin thought Marx went wrong by wanting to abolish the strong centralized government once capitalism, religion and tradition were gone... because once those were gone, controlling the population would be so much easier.

Here is a quote from Lennin: "It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed."

Marx: "The state is based on this contradiction. It is based on the contradiction between public and private life, between universal and particular interests. For this reason, the state must confine itself to formal, negative activities."

Just for contrast, here's a quote from Obama, complaining that the Constitution places limits on government and impedes the redistribution of wealth:

"The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth and sort of more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent as radical as I think people tried to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, as least as it's been interpreted, and Warren Court interpreted in the same way that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties, says what the states can't do to you, says what the federal government can't do to you, but it doesn't say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf. And that hasn’t shifted."


You are being naive if you think everyone understands that such a philosophy is doomed to fail. Next time you hear one of the Progressives complaining that the rich don't pay their "fair" share, realize that they are pushing for that philosophy of massive wealth redistribution.

PLC1 Gen said it better than I ever could.

Thank you Gen


On a side note, neither Gen nor I have ever said Obama was a communist, we both said he has Marxist leanings and his political influence by his own admission was from Marxist thinkers. I have written who was a Marxist that obama said politically influenced him, he talks about it in his books he spent 20 years in church with it. He has spoken about it in interviews. I asked if you had any quotes from obama of him saying he was politically influenced by let’s say some capitalist or anything other than Marxist. But you always come back with stuff like communist and antichrist and its driving me crazy

 

[PLC1]

PLC1 Gen said it better than I ever could.

Thank you Gen


On a side note, neither Gen nor I have ever said Obama was a communist, we both said he has Marxist leanings and his political influence by his own admission was from Marxist thinkers. I have written who was a Marxist that obama said politically influenced him, he talks about it in his books he spent 20 years in church with it. He has spoken about it in interviews. I asked if you had any quotes from obama of him saying he was politically influenced by let’s say some capitalist or anything other than Marxist. But you always come back with stuff like communist and antichrist and its driving me crazy

OK, so maybe you're right.

I googled "obama + marxist" just to see what would come up.
This was the first one:

After a rant about how much money Obama is spending, which you, I, and the author would all agree is unsustainable, the Joe the Plumber remark was used to support the Obama is Marxist hypothesis:

What concerns me the most about today’s frightening scenario is that Obama is admitted Marxist who told “Joe the Plumber” during the presidential campaign that his solution to all of America’s fiscal problems can be summed up in 3 words: “Share the Wealth!”

That’s exactly what Karl Marx, the “Father of Marxism,” tried to do: “Redistribution of Wealth.”

The "redistribution of wealth" statement referred to the graduated income tax, as we all know by now.

So, is a graduated income tax a Marxist ideal? If so, have all of the presidents and most of the Congressmen been Marxists for the past 60 or so years? I'm not saying they're not, you understand, just asking the question.

The second one asked, Is Barack Obama A Marxist Mole?

Assuming that the term "mole" referred to an imbedded spy, or operative of some kind, and not to a small burrowing rodent, let's see if they make their case:

It turns out that Obama’s childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.

There's that term "communist" rearing its ugly head again.

Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his “poetry” and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just “Frank.”

So, he has had some communist friends, and close friends at that! Note, I googled "Marxist, not Communist."

This “Frank” is none other than Frank Marshall Davis, the black communist writer now considered by some to be in the same category of prominence as Maya Angelou and Alice Walker.

Obviously, I'm on the wrong track, as this site keeps saying that Obama has close ties with a communist.

The next one seems to be saying that Obama is not a Marxist, so we'll ignore that obviously biased site. The next one states:

Obama's Marxist Stimulus package, more job cuts, more lay-offs, and much more Big Government

Obama’s trillion dollar taxpayer leap into pure socialism is being sold as a “jobs” initiative that will “stimulate” economic growth by “creating” 3-4 million new jobs to replace the 2.5 million jobs lost over the last two years of Democrat controlled economic chaos. Am I the only American to notice the decidedly deep downturn in our economy after Democrats took control of congress in 2006?

According to that, the blame for the worldwide recession is the Democrat takeover of Congress in '06, and that Obama's solution is pure socialism.

I suppose you could argue that the enormous bailout is socialistic in nature, it most certainly is statist, as I've already said.

And, as I've said above, the philosophy of giving handouts to failing institutions while not giving breaks to succeeding institutions does seem to follow the "from each according to his abilities" philosophy promoted by Karl Marx.

Maybe, then, Obama's policies can be said to be Marxist, in that sense. I've always had the impression that the "from each..." etc. referred to individuals, rather than to institutions.

So, in a way, stretching the definition and by using the guilt by association argument, it could be said that Obama is a Marxist.

 

[Pandora]

OK, so maybe you're right.

I googled "obama + marxist" just to see what would come up.
This was the first one:

After a rant about how much money Obama is spending, which you, I, and the author would all agree is unsustainable, the Joe the Plumber remark was used to support the Obama is Marxist hypothesis:



The "redistribution of wealth" statement referred to the graduated income tax, as we all know by now.

So, is a graduated income tax a Marxist ideal? If so, have all of the presidents and most of the Congressmen been Marxists for the past 60 or so years? I'm not saying they're not, you understand, just asking the question.

The second one asked, Is Barack Obama A Marxist Mole?

Assuming that the term "mole" referred to an imbedded spy, or operative of some kind, and not to a small burrowing rodent, let's see if they make their case:



There's that term "communist" rearing its ugly head again.



So, he has had some communist friends, and close friends at that! Note, I googled "Marxist, not Communist."



Obviously, I'm on the wrong track, as this site keeps saying that Obama has close ties with a communist.

The next one seems to be saying that Obama is not a Marxist, so we'll ignore that obviously biased site. The next one states:

Obama's Marxist Stimulus package, more job cuts, more lay-offs, and much more Big Government



According to that, the blame for the worldwide recession is the Democrat takeover of Congress in '06, and that Obama's solution is pure socialism.

I suppose you could argue that the enormous bailout is socialistic in nature, it most certainly is statist, as I've already said.

And, as I've said above, the philosophy of giving handouts to failing institutions while not giving breaks to succeeding institutions does seem to follow the "from each according to his abilities" philosophy promoted by Karl Marx.

Maybe, then, Obama's policies can be said to be Marxist, in that sense. I've always had the impression that the "from each..." etc. referred to individuals, rather than to institutions.

So, in a way, stretching the definition and by using the guilt by association argument, it could be said that Obama is a Marxist.

There are quotes in his book where he talked about being more comfortable with people who were Marxist and he sought them out as friends.

You could look there for more information on his thinking


Also his church, they openly practiced Marxism for the black community. He spent 20 years in that church.

His wife during the primaries would talk to women in women’s groups about not going into a professional field, staying away from Ivy League colleges and Wall Street and to stay in the community and give back. To accept that they have to take a smaller piece of the pie for the good of others… That smaller piece of the pie stuff for the good of the community is Marxist thinking.

All of this is documented if you cared to research it.


I don’t think you really feel he is Marxist in his thinking and the beauty of our country is you have the right not to think that