the libs were right. Obama gives U.S. better image


This is clip of Chavez openly inciting his people to attack reporters who do not report positively on Chavez. The big one being members of Globalvision. The end of the clip shows Chavez supporters rioting in the streets attacking reporters. One reporter says on camera that it is safer for them to do a report on gang violence than a presidential speech.

Kind of reminds you of Obama and Rush Limbaugh doesn't it? Accept Rush isn't even a report, just a political commentator. Pretty sad, yes?
 
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This is clip of Chavez openly inciting his people to attack reporters who do not report positively on Chavez. The big one being members of Globalvision. The end of the clip shows Chavez supporters rioting in the streets attacking reporters. One reporter says on camera that it is safer for them to do a report on gang violence than a presidential speech.

Kind of reminds you of Obama and Rush Limbaugh doesn't it? Accept Rush isn't even a report, just a political commentator. Pretty sad, yes?

Yes, and except that Obama hasn't incited anyone to attack Limbaugh, and Obama supporters haven't yet rioted in the streets, and no one has attacked Limbaugh, and Obama has, in fact, said that Limbaugh is the voice of the Republican Party, much to the chagrin of most Republicans.

Other than that, it's exactly the same.
 
Yes, and except that Obama hasn't incited anyone to attack Limbaugh, and Obama supporters haven't yet rioted in the streets, and no one has attacked Limbaugh, and Obama has, in fact, said that Limbaugh is the voice of the Republican Party, much to the chagrin of most Republicans.

Other than that, it's exactly the same.

But congress wanted the names of people who received bonuses to be made public for what reason? And the tours past their homes did what?

But yes you are right it is not that bad yet, O just said people should not listen to Rush - that is very presidential and clearly supports his free speech rights.

And the whole purpose of the fairness doctrine is to silence opposition.

Here is a story:

Obama not only aired a response ad to the spot linking him to William Ayers, but he sought to block stations the commercial by warning station managers and asking the Justice Department to intervene. The campaign also planned to compel advertisers to pressure stations that continue to air the anti-Obama commercial.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92PL7400&show_article=1

The fact of the matter is that the Obama Silencing Machine is well tuned and active. So it is not as bad as the one Chavez uses? Does that justify it?

When a gov official uses any sort of pressure to silence free speech we should be very worried.
 

This is clip of Chavez openly inciting his people to attack reporters who do not report positively on Chavez. The big one being members of Globalvision. The end of the clip shows Chavez supporters rioting in the streets attacking reporters. One reporter says on camera that it is safer for them to do a report on gang violence than a presidential speech.

Kind of reminds you of Obama and Rush Limbaugh doesn't it? Accept Rush isn't even a report, just a political commentator. Pretty sad, yes?


It reminds me more of Joe the Plumber
 
But congress wanted the names of people who received bonuses to be made public for what reason? And the tours past their homes did what?

But yes you are right it is not that bad yet, O just said people should not listen to Rush - that is very presidential and clearly supports his free speech rights.

And the whole purpose of the fairness doctrine is to silence opposition.

Here is a story:

Obama not only aired a response ad to the spot linking him to William Ayers, but he sought to block stations the commercial by warning station managers and asking the Justice Department to intervene. The campaign also planned to compel advertisers to pressure stations that continue to air the anti-Obama commercial.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92PL7400&show_article=1

The fact of the matter is that the Obama Silencing Machine is well tuned and active. So it is not as bad as the one Chavez uses? Does that justify it?

When a gov official uses any sort of pressure to silence free speech we should be very worried.


From your link:

Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor said Obama supporters have inundated stations that are airing the ad, many of them owned by Sinclair Communications, with 93,000 e-mails. He called the ad false, despicable and outrageous.

"Other stations that follow Sinclair's lead should expect a similar response from people who don't want the political discourse cheapened with these false, negative attacks," Vietor said.

Notice that the above was from August of 07, during the campaign.

During the campaign, supporters of Obama called and emailed the stations protesting an anti Obama commercial.

Can you see how Obama supporters protesting a commercial during the campaign is a little bit different from the president trying to stifle free speech?
 
Yes, and except that Obama hasn't incited anyone to attack Limbaugh, and Obama supporters haven't yet rioted in the streets, and no one has attacked Limbaugh, and Obama has, in fact, said that Limbaugh is the voice of the Republican Party, much to the chagrin of most Republicans.

Other than that, it's exactly the same.

PLC, do you think that Venezuela became like that in a day? Like just one day, Chavez shows up and says go attack the media, and suddenly they are rioting in the streets?

Maybe a month? A year? Five years?

Did you know that in Germany, prior to the take over of the Nazi party, that German Jewish relations were so positive, that many Jews that went to Isreal to help establish Jewish colonies, returned to Germany? (this was before WWII) Did you know that Germany weddings often had kosher sections specifically for Jewish relatives?

How did they get from that, to being mass slaughtered? Did it happen in a day? Hitler stood up one day, and suddenly the entire public started attacking Jews? A month? A year?

What's my point? My point is that there is a progression. A slow demonizing of the opposition. Obama, and the left, have been progressively attacking all aspects of the other view point for ages, and it's getting worse. Just look at the number of threads on this forum about Fox News, and Limbaugh, and Coulter.

No, Obama hasn't openly supported violence like Chavez. But Chavez didn't either for years and years. But he was always moving toward this end. Obama is on the same path, but at a different spot.
 
PLC, do you think that Venezuela became like that in a day? Like just one day, Chavez shows up and says go attack the media, and suddenly they are rioting in the streets?

Maybe a month? A year? Five years?

Did you know that in Germany, prior to the take over of the Nazi party, that German Jewish relations were so positive, that many Jews that went to Isreal to help establish Jewish colonies, returned to Germany? (this was before WWII) Did you know that Germany weddings often had kosher sections specifically for Jewish relatives?

How did they get from that, to being mass slaughtered? Did it happen in a day? Hitler stood up one day, and suddenly the entire public started attacking Jews? A month? A year?

What's my point? My point is that there is a progression. A slow demonizing of the opposition. Obama, and the left, have been progressively attacking all aspects of the other view point for ages, and it's getting worse. Just look at the number of threads on this forum about Fox News, and Limbaugh, and Coulter.

No, Obama hasn't openly supported violence like Chavez. But Chavez didn't either for years and years. But he was always moving toward this end. Obama is on the same path, but at a different spot.


If by "like that" you mean moving toward dictatorship, Venezuela just took a major step backward when it voted against Chavez's bid to become president for life.

Obama and "the left" are attacking all aspects of the other viewpoints... what exactly does that mean? Is arguing the other side attacking all aspects? Are you referring to the so called "fairness doctrine", which Obama opposes? Is it only "the left" who are dangerous to liberty, or is it that necessary evil, the government, that has to be watched? It seems to me that there are a lot more authoritarian positions taken by those who describe themselves as "conservative" than by those viewed as liberal.

How much of this little video is accurate, is possible, is happening now? How much is due to the "left", how much to pure commercialism? You decide.
 
From your link:



Notice that the above was from August of 07, during the campaign.

During the campaign, supporters of Obama called and emailed the stations protesting an anti Obama commercial.

Can you see how Obama supporters protesting a commercial during the campaign is a little bit different from the president trying to stifle free speech?

Yes I can see the difference. I have no objection to individuals expressing their opinions freely. I did not quote that part of the article because it was irrelevant. The part I did quote was relevant, that would be the part where Obama himself asked the justice department to block the ads.


So why did you ask If I can see the difference? Did you read the article and fail to see the part I quoted and the significance of it? Would you not be upset if Bush had done that?
 
If by "like that" you mean moving toward dictatorship, Venezuela just took a major step backward when it voted against Chavez's bid to become president for life.

Obama and "the left" are attacking all aspects of the other viewpoints... what exactly does that mean? Is arguing the other side attacking all aspects? Are you referring to the so called "fairness doctrine", which Obama opposes? Is it only "the left" who are dangerous to liberty, or is it that necessary evil, the government, that has to be watched? It seems to me that there are a lot more authoritarian positions taken by those who describe themselves as "conservative" than by those viewed as liberal.

How much of this little video is accurate, is possible, is happening now? How much is due to the "left", how much to pure commercialism? You decide.

He opposes the fairness doctrine as a law openly but there is a very big "but" after that statement.

He has appointed three leaders of the FCC who favor it. Many democrats do favor it. The front door is closed but the back door is wide open. He can oppose it all he wants in his statements but all that needs to happen is for one senator to slip it onto another bill or for the FCC to simply institute it as policy but not as law.

But I am glad to see that you recognize the real evil as authoritanianism and not as one particular party. After all they both advance statism one step at a time when they are respectively in office. The libs advance statism in one way and then four years later the pubs do the same thing in another way. Why don't we just follow the constitution?
 
Yes I can see the difference. I have no objection to individuals expressing their opinions freely. I did not quote that part of the article because it was irrelevant. The part I did quote was relevant, that would be the part where Obama himself asked the justice department to block the ads.


So why did you ask If I can see the difference? Did you read the article and fail to see the part I quoted and the significance of it? Would you not be upset if Bush had done that?

Yes, I saw that, and this part as well:

It's the type of going-for-the-jugular approach to politics many Democrats complain that Kerry lacked and that Republicans exploit.

Bottom line: Kerry lost, and Obama won. Whether or not Kerry would have won had he been more aggressive about countering the swiftboaters or not is a matter for speculation, but you don't become president by being timid.

Now, if president Obama or President Bush were to ask the justice department to censor the news, yes, I'd be upset.
 
He opposes the fairness doctrine as a law openly but there is a very big "but" after that statement.

He has appointed three leaders of the FCC who favor it. Many democrats do favor it. The front door is closed but the back door is wide open. He can oppose it all he wants in his statements but all that needs to happen is for one senator to slip it onto another bill or for the FCC to simply institute it as policy but not as law.

But I am glad to see that you recognize the real evil as authoritanianism and not as one particular party. After all they both advance statism one step at a time when they are respectively in office. The libs advance statism in one way and then four years later the pubs do the same thing in another way. Why don't we just follow the constitution?


Now, there's a good question. I think it is because we, the people, don't make them follow it. Most people don't even seem to understand how the government undermines the Constitution, or why that might be a bad thing.

If we did, there would be no patriot act, no asset forfeiture laws, no chance at all for the fairness doctrine, and most likely no war on drugs.

Nor would we be spending trillions on TARP, AIG, GM, or anything similar.
 
If by "like that" you mean moving toward dictatorship, Venezuela just took a major step backward when it voted against Chavez's bid to become president for life.

Huh? Either, I'm missing something, or you are. Chavez has won unlimited presidency. Now, thus far he still has to come up for an election... but the removal of the term limits has been approved. You are thinking of the 2007 election, in which Venezuelians voted down unlimited presidency.

But that video I showed you, where he attacked the press, and had his supporter fight against reporters, was all about this very issue. He waged a war on the national press, and then in 2008, brought back up the repeal of term limits. His war on the press, combined with a massive national campaign, won the repeal. Hugo Chavez can stay in office until he dies.

Obama and "the left" are attacking all aspects of the other viewpoints... what exactly does that mean? Is arguing the other side attacking all aspects? Are you referring to the so called "fairness doctrine", which Obama opposes? Is it only "the left" who are dangerous to liberty, or is it that necessary evil, the government, that has to be watched? It seems to me that there are a lot more authoritarian positions taken by those who describe themselves as "conservative" than by those viewed as liberal.

I flat out don't believe that Obama is against the fairness doctrine. He's lied about everything else, why not this? What happened to cutting the deficit in half like he promised? Instead it's going to be tripled. What happened to that middle class tax cut? Now we're just going to raise taxes.

And have you looked at his statements on the subject?

It's not that he thinks the Fairness Doctrine is wrong, because he doesn't. It is just a distraction... a distraction from what exactly? From opening up the airwaves to as many diverse viewpoints as possible.... sounds like the fairness doctrine, just not called the fairness doctrine.

Instead he's going to have "media-ownership caps, network neutrality, public broadcasting, and increasing minority ownership of broadcasting and printing outlets".... guess what all of those require? More government control.

He is openly planning to wage a war on the media, through an innocent looking, clandestine method of incremental policy. It's almost directly from "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky.

How much of this little video is accurate, is possible, is happening now? How much is due to the "left", how much to pure commercialism? You decide.

Your Social Security number, was promised by FDR, to never by used as individual ID system, nor be used to track individuals. Now it's used for both. SS is still hailed as a grand success by the left.

Moreover, only government would start doing some of the things in that video. In the UK, they are both trying to bar overweight and unhealthy people from health service, and trying to provide cash (read tax) incentives to people to eat right, and do exercises. Why? Because government has the power to do that.

See how the government is trying to dictate how AIG is run because they gave them money? See how the people are in favor of it? Well guess what will happen when government runs health care?

As for commercialism, a company would never want to do that. Would you want to buy a pizza for $30 because of all the government mandated fees? Of course not. The pizza place knows that too.

Not to mention, if any shop did try to gain all the information, you'd likely not use them again. And they know that. So the answer is, no it's not from commercialism.

In short, I've never been trampled on by a company. Not once. By government? Heck, last month. But never a company. Because I can control that. I can't control the government.

Quick example. When I first moved into my home, I got phone service through AT&T. I paid a few extra bucks to not have my phone number published. Over the next few months, they started calling me to get me to sign on for their high speed internet service, because I had it previously.

I told them I didn't have the money for it. They called back. I told them that if they didn't stop soliciting me when I pay them an extra fee to not be solicited, I'd cancel phone service. They called back. I asked for a manager, then to transfer to a company rep, then to accounts, and had my phone service canceled on the very call to get me to sign up for high speed internet.

Bottom line, they lost. Now what happens if the government owns the industry, like health care? Then there's nothing I can do, and they know it. I lose.
 
Yes, I saw that, and this part as well:



Bottom line: Kerry lost, and Obama won. Whether or not Kerry would have won had he been more aggressive about countering the swiftboaters or not is a matter for speculation, but you don't become president by being timid.

Now, if president Obama or President Bush were to ask the justice department to censor the news, yes, I'd be upset.

Why would you object to him asking the justice department to censor the news but you would not object to him censoring an ad which is an example of free speech as well?

I agree that you don't get to be president by being timid but we need to make them be trustworthy.
 
Now, there's a good question. I think it is because we, the people, don't make them follow it. Most people don't even seem to understand how the government undermines the Constitution, or why that might be a bad thing.

If we did, there would be no patriot act, no asset forfeiture laws, no chance at all for the fairness doctrine, and most likely no war on drugs.

Nor would we be spending trillions on TARP, AIG, GM, or anything similar.

Green to you!
 
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Your Social Security number, was promised by FDR, to never by used as individual ID system, nor be used to track individuals. Now it's used for both. SS is still hailed as a grand success by the left.


They understood just how intrusive that would be. Today people don't even know that this is a right they have lost. Count this right number 4 million six thousand three hundred forty two that is lost.

Every law in every lawbook is a lost right. Some need to be lost because that is how we stop people from killing each other. Our constitution spells out why a right can be lost and limits the gov from going too far. But far far too many laws are ways for gov to control us for other reasons. Now they openly talk about limiting not only executive pay bu everyone's pay just because the gov would decide that they make too much.
 
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