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The US Should Withdraw From Iraq

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by GrassRootPolitician, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. GrassRootPolitician

    GrassRootPolitician New Member

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    If the US was to withdraw from Iraq would not make us a coward, but we would be saving our own troopers lives, and sending more troops to other parts of the world is stupid and senseless. The IRAQ war should of never happened in the beginning. This was suppose to have been a conflict when Bush first decided to go after Saddam, AND after no WMD was discovered in Iraq plus the WTC incident....here we are stuck in IRAQ. BRING THE TROOPS HOME
     
  2. DemandCurve

    DemandCurve New Member

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    I don't think I can disagree with you there.

    Bush is just plain stupid.
     
  3. GrassRootPolitician

    GrassRootPolitician New Member

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    I always thought that the President was suppose to watch over the best interest of the American citizens, and for me to see how American citizens is allowing this Bushwhacker to focus ONLY on IRAQ is a strange piece of dumb
    Bull****. Can ANYONE from ANY political party explain to me Bush's point he's trying to make? As far as Iran is concerned We need to stay out of that crisis. Holy Wars between the holy n christian nations in the middle east has
    been going on before Christ, and who does Bush think he is....another Son of GOD? It makes me want to throw up on my television screen everytime I see Alfred E. Neuman (Bush), and I guess his dumb*** grin is a sign of victory huh? This WAR is turning people global wide against America, and those that is allowed to enter this country will live seven 7 years tax free.
     
  4. Walter

    Walter Administrator Staff Member

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    Although presidents SHOULD act upon the best interest of the American citizens, some don't. It's sad how we chose this person as our president. The Republicans are definitely going to pay for it in the 2008 election.
     
  5. MarkVI

    MarkVI New Member

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    The President is the people's representative of the United States. He is OUR voice in the world view, he is us, in a sense.

    Too bad he isn't even close to encompassing what the citizens want and who we are.
     
  6. GrassRootPolitician

    GrassRootPolitician New Member

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    Hot Damn MARKVI your post told the truth, and I must add my 2 cents...Bush can't talk so he's not my voice:D But well stated Mark
     
  7. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    WE DON'T WANT TO GO HOME! I'm so sick and tired of people who aren't military, haven't even been to Iraq (or outside the GZ) and think they know what's going on. GrassRoot, what makes you believe that you have the slightest idea of what's going on there. Having just returned from my second tour in Iraq as a United States Marine, I think I have a little bit better of an idea of what's happening then you do.

    We are accomplishing things. We are making progress. Guerilla wars take an average 8-11 years. Patience.
     
  8. InterestedParty

    InterestedParty New Member

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    The man has spoken.

    I challenge any one of you to open a dialogue with USMC and see why he feels the way he does, with an open mind.

    If you truly care about what is in the best interest of our country you will do so.

    I find it ironic that there are people who claim to have all of this support and concern for our men and women in uniform and demand a withdrawl from Iraq. Yet, when these men and women speakup and give their opinion all of the support stops when it goes against the persons POLITICAL beliefs.

    Either you support the troops and their mission or you don't. Call a spade a spade instead of using smoke and mirrors to further your political agenda.
     
  9. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    Anyone who promises to have an open mind and actually listen to the facts and experiences from a jarhead on the ground.

    Well said, and thank you sir. I also believe that it is extremely difficult (though not impossible) to support the troops and not the mission.

    It's politics.

    Semper fi.
     
  10. InterestedParty

    InterestedParty New Member

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    Not a sir, but that is alright. ;)

    Anyways, I beg to differ. It *is* impossible to support the troops and not the mission. Unless of course if the mission is to be defeated. You either support the eventual victory of our mission in Iraq or you don't. You can not have it both ways. In other words, how can it be possible to support the troops and not support victory?

    I have a question for you USMC. Based on your experience, if we start pulling troops out of Iraq before it is relatively stable are we putting our men and women still on the ground in Iraq in more jeopardy by thinning out the troops?

    Also, what affect is all of this controversy here in the States having on the morale of the troops in Iraq? What do they say? If you could give one message to us here on this message board about what it is we could do to assist the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, what would it be?
     
  11. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    My apologies ma'am.

    You're right, it does seem that if you don't support victory and support the troops succeeding in their mission, then how can you support them? However, I have seen a few examples where people (such as my grandmother) do not believe that the war is just, however, each week she uses around 25% of her Social Security check to buy and send us supplies, care packagesl and the like. She wants us to win, and prays every night that we do, but doesn't think we should have been there in the first place.

    I disagree with her on that last segment, but I would still classify this as "supporting" us, even though she disagrees with the pretenses we went there under.

    Oh, without question. If we're not going to commit fully to this fight (I believe we need even more troops) then we need to immediately withdraw 100% of our forces. Any strategy that resembles the "Vietnamization" right now would be disastrous not only for our military and its morale, but for the morale of the majority of Iraqis who were liberated by us and then would come under Sharia law.

    Now, that's not to say that someday we won't be able to begin turning the country over to the Iraqis and begin to subsitute troops with advisors, but right now, that day seems like a long time away. There is still a lot of pacifying and securing that needs to occur before we see that day.

    I think you know the answer to this. Most of us believe in the mission, believe that we are not only securing Iraqi and Middle Eastern interests, but also American ones. We are certainly disheartened when we see all of the pessimism surrounding our accomplishments and missions. The number one issue the troops have with this war is how the media is misrepresenting (they call it "reporting") this war. The American public is not getting an accurate picture.

    In terms of the best way to support us, I would just say to support us in anyway you feel is appropriate: fly American flags, put stickers on your car, send us packages/letters/notes, etc. Not to say at all that if you don't do these things that you aren't supporting us, but these are some tangible ways you could show your support and appreciation.

    Every soldier, Marine, airman, sailor, and guardsmen has a different opinion of what "support" is, however, this Marine believes that you can support the troops by standing up for us and this war in discussions. Don't let the obnoxiously vocal anti-war crowd be the only ones who utilize their First Amendment. After all, that's what I'm fighting for.

    Semper fi!
     
  12. saggyjones

    saggyjones New Member

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    I beg to differ.

    This poll was taken almost a year ago, and we still haven't pulled out. Think of the troops opinions now!

    Such as?

    Again, any examples of progress?

    I will have more patience once I stop hearing about people dying and once we stop spending billions a day on something that is completely pointless.
     
  13. InterestedParty

    InterestedParty New Member

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    You have no way of knowing what the troops opinions are saggy.

    You are basing your opinion on a poll that could be manipulated to bring about any result that the pollster wants to achieve. Just because it says what you want it to say does not mean it is factual.

    You are also using a far left wing website to justify facts that are clearly biased.

    Drop the bias.

    You have a soldier here that has served two terms on the ground in Iraq. *IF* you truly care about what is in the best interest of our country you will converse with him and you will listen to what he has to say.

    If after conversing with him with an open mind you still come to the same conclusions than so be it. Behaving extremely in one direction or the other is not going to accomplish anything.

    Bottom line is our men and women are in Iraq representing our country and they are not leaving any time soon. The question becomes, are you going to support them in their mission or do you want them to fail?
     
  14. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    Personally, I have my own qualms with how the war is being handled (too PC, too sensitive, not aggressive enough, too much media attention and clearance, the ROE are all out of whack, commanders focusing on political matters instead of military ones, etc.) You won't find a single troop in any war, ever who believed that the conflict they were engaged in was being executed to perfection. However, this doesn't mean that we are against the war.

    We know better than anyone the type of people that we are fighting and thus, we know the consequences of surrender better than anyone (especially you). We are fighting radical terrorists who don't care about civilian casualties (on either end) and are only concerned with attaining their martyrdom.

    It's wildly narrow-minded of you to take this "poll" force-fed to you by one of your far-left propaganda websites (yes, I am intentionally using language that you liberals use to describe Conservatives and gov't) and look at it as gospel. What ever happened to your liberal doctrines of "question everything" and all that other nonsense that you guys spew to make yourselves feel sophisitcated?

    We have installed a new, democratic government. There have been elections. The number of attacks per day are down. We have turned over 3 provinces to the Iraqi Police Force which continues to make progress each day. The port of Umm Qsar has reopened.

    Most importantly, we have al Qaeda on the run. Bin Laden's truce offer, Zarqawi's death, the deaths of dozens of high ranking al Qaeda terrorists:

    Iraqi newspaper al-Sabah that Abu Ayyub al-Masri, the head of al-Qaeda in Iraq, has ordered a withdrawal to Diyala province, north and east of Baghdad (the same province where Zarqawi got intimate with some F-16 delivered ordnance).

    Masri's evacuation order said that remaining in Baghdad is a no-win situation for al-Qaeda because the Fallujah campaign demonstrated that Americans have learned how to prevail in urban warfare in such an environment. The intelligence officer was quoted as saying "In more than 10 years of reading al-Qaeda intercepts, I've never seen [pessimistic] language like this.”

    Al-Qaeda's leaving Baghdad will give the Iraqi government (with American help) a chance to assert control in contested neighborhoods, which will make it difficult for al-Qaeda to re-build its terrorist cells in Baghdad. And because the media focuses on Baghdad more than anywhere else al-Qaeda will be retreating from center stage.

    Furthermore, the radical cleric al-Sadr, whose Iranian-funded militia, the Mahdi army, is responsible for the assaults on Sunnis, is cooling his rhetoric and lowering his profile following Bush’s intended plans to raise troop levels. Mahdi army militia members have stopped wearing their black uniforms, hidden their weapons and abandoned their checkpoints in an apparent effort to lower their profile in Baghdad in advance of the arrival of U.S. reinforcements, further exemplifying the positive results the surge is already producing.


    Iraq's economy is surging (2006 Iraq index)

    -- Per Capita GDP (USD) for 2005 is forecast to increase from the previous year to $1,051. In 2002 it was $802.
    Increases in GDP for the next five years: 16.8, 13.6, 12.5, 7.8, and 7.2.

    -- Actionable tips from Iraqis have increased every month this year. In January, 4,025 tips were received; February, 4,235; and March, 4,578.

    -- On an index of political freedom for countries in the Middle East, Iraq now ranks fourth, just below Israel, Lebanon, and Morocco.

    -- Crude oil production reached 2.14 million barrels a day (MBD) in April of this year. It had dropped to 0.3 MBD in May of 2003.

    -- Revenues from oil export have only slightly increased from pre-war levels of $0.2 billion, to $0.62 billion in April.

    -- Electrical output is almost at the pre-war level of 3,958 megawatts. April's production was 3,600 megawatts. In May of 2003, production was only 500 megawatts. The goal is to reach 6,000 megawatts, and was originally expected to be met in 2004.

    -- The unemployment rate in June of 2003 was 50-60%, and in April of this year it had dropped to 25-40%.

    -- The number of U.S. military wounded has declined significantly from a high of 1,397 in November 2004 to 430 in April of this year.

    -- Iraqi military casualties were 201 in April of 2006, after peaking at 304 in July of 2005.

    -- As of December 2005, countries other than the U.S., plus the World Bank and IMF, have pledged almost $14 billion in reconstruction aid to Iraq.

    -- Significant progress has also been made towards the rule of law. In May 2003 there were no trained judges, but as of October 2005 there were 351.

    -- As of January 2006, 64% of Iraqis polled said that the country was headed in the right direction.

    -- Also as of January 2006, 77% said that removing Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do.

    -- In May of 2003, Iraqi Security Forces were estimated at between 7,000-9,000. They numbered 250,500 in March of this year.

    -- The breakdown of foreign terrorists by country of origin is interesting. The largest number come from Algeria, at 20%. The next two countries are Syria and Yemen, at 18% and 17%, respectively.

    -- The number of foreign terrorists fighting in Iraq was estimated at between 300 and 500 in January 2004. That number increased in April of this year, to between 700 and 2,000.

    -- From May 2003 and April 2006, between 1,000 and 3,000 anti-Iraqi forces have been killed each month.

    -- There is plenty to pleased about here, and much progress for the mainstream media and the left to ignore.


    ...I've got plenty more.

    It's not going to happen. You can't fight a war for free. Wars cost money, both in blood and capital. Freedom isn't free.
     
  15. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    Exactly. I actually laughed out loud to myself when I read where he said "I beg to differ." Like he has any clue of what it looks like over there.

    Right. Saggy, do you want us to win in Iraq? Don't give me any BS, long-winded, general answer. It's a very simple question. Give me the courtesy of a simple answer.
     
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