The usa is a fascist nation.

Yeah, I once read an article on the census number for Jews in Europe taken in the mid '30s and it was something like 4.7 million-ish. According to the article, after WWII there were supposed to have been some 4.1 million-ish Jews in Europe filing for war reparations. I've never had a good opportunity to chase those numbers down in old periodicals at the time (e.g., Encyclopaedia Britannica World Data Book) and haven't had much inclination. The Nazis certainly had the internment camps, and they did have ovens and showers (have been to see some) where Zyklon B gas was used (seen that, too). I suppose the only real discrepancy is in the number of people who died.

They certainly used them for cheap industrial labor instead of killing them outright from the beginning. Who knows what the absolute truth is...
 
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Pidgey said:
Yeah, I once read an article on the census number for Jews in Europe taken in the mid '30s and it was something like 4.7 million-ish. According to the article, after WWII there were supposed to have been some 4.1 million-ish Jews in Europe filing for war reparations. I've never had a good opportunity to chase those numbers down in old periodicals at the time (e.g., Encyclopaedia Britannica World Data Book) and haven't had much inclination. The Nazis certainly had the internment camps, and they did have ovens and showers (have been to see some) where Zyklon B gas was used (seen that, too). I suppose the only real discrepancy is in the number of people who died.

They certainly used them for cheap industrial labor instead of killing them outright from the beginning. Who knows what the absolute truth is...
Click to expand...



Wow really? How come that is not talked about? That is a much different number than the 6 million.

I don’t think it matters as much how many, what was done to them was wrong but it is odd that I have always heard and been taught 6 million.

I will try and look up that book, thanks for the tip!
 
What book? The Encyclopaedia Britannica World Data Book? It gets redone every year whereas they don't completely redo the encyclopaedia itself but every ?five? years-ish?

That kind of data is especially difficult to come by. That the Nazis did some especially nasty things isn't in question, every aggressor does. When things get going badly, virtually all of us can become aggressors. That said, history is just a record of the winners and losers in the competition of life and livelihood.

As to the Holocaust and the veracity of the standard numbers given, I doubt you'll ever find anything worth a flip for verifiable data to support it one way or another. In any case, when push comes to shove regarding the argument, I'm not sure that it's a slam-dunk either way. Some folks finally resort to the old time-honored coin flip in the analysis department by asking the question: Cui Bono?
 
Here is an excerpt from Political Common Sense for America (copyright 2009) discussing the definitions of political and economic systems:


...“So Joshua, when I say democracy what do you think of?”

“I think of the checks and balances that I learned about in class. That no one person or group has ultimate power,” he answered.

“Yep, and I would add, it’s about the idea that the citizens are in charge and the elected officials are supposed to act in the long-term interest of the people who elected them.”

Joshua looked quizzically and asked, “What do you mean by the long-term interest?”

“It’s easy to do whatever is popular. We need our leaders to think about the future more than we can. The average person is just trying to get by and if you ask them what they want from the government, they will probably give you a very short-term, tactical, list of things that will make their life easier right now. The problem is the average person doesn’t understand how something like nationalizing health care might reduce the overall quality of the care they receive.”

Joshua summarized, “So, you’re saying that we need our political leaders to do what you and Mom do for Sarah and I?”
“What do you mean by that?”

“Well, Sarah might want to eat a whole bag of gummy bears, but you and Mom know from experience that isn’t good for her and will give her a belly ache later, so you make sure she only eats a few,” Joshua replied.

“Exactly, but it’s a slippery slope. The key is intention and the need to set personal prejudice aside, otherwise you can easily have fascism,” I suggested.
“What’s fascism?”

“Well, that’s a whole other paper. In short, fascism is when a small group of people dictate what is right and wrong for all,” I answered. I better refocus him because we could talk about fascism all day and never get this paper done. “Let’s move on to capitalism.”

“Okay, communism is the opposite of capitalism, right?” Joshua asked.
“In broad terms that’s right.”

“Then I don’t understand something. In school they say communism is bad, but at the same time some of my teachers say they like the idea of nationalizing health care. Isn’t that sort of communism?” he asked.

Oh, I have a bright boy here. He has uncovered one of the great secrets of history. I have to be very careful that I explain this right or it will confuse him forever, because so many people just don’t get the difference between capitalism, communism, socialism, and fascism.

I started, “Most people confuse communism and socialism. Communism is an economic system where no one person’s work contribution should be worth more than anyone else’s. So a nuclear physicist should make the same money as a janitor. In this way, everyone would have the same standard of living. It was a knee jerk reaction to the over indulgences of the European monarchies and the repressed standard of living of the average worker,” I stopped for a moment to see if Joshua was getting it.

He nodded so I continued, “Capitalism is the opposite economic idea. The basic idea is that the open market will price your worth, as a worker, based on how badly your service is needed and how few people can provide it.”

“Wow, you should teach Social Studies. My teacher talked about that for 2 weeks and I didn’t understand it until just now.”

My ego just got stroked by my teenage son. Nothing like it! The funny thing is that I would love to teach high school History, but my family wouldn’t like the cut backs that would occur as a result of my salary being cut in half. The irony is that the communist economic system would allow me to be a teacher and be paid equitably for it. The problem is that the overall standard of living might not be anywhere near the same.

“One last difference, and possibly the most important, is that in a true communist economy an individual doesn’t own property, while it’s the cornerstone of a capitalist economy,” I added.

“What about socialism?”

“Well, socialism is more comparable to democracy and fascism,” I started, “Socialism is the idea that government should provide most, if not all, of the services for the community, and that this will help maintain order and prevent private corruption and greed. Democracy suggests that elected officials should be the voice of the people and create laws that help provide equal opportunity for all. The key is the word ‘opportunity’. In a true democracy laws maintain order and provide for the right to fairness. It doesn’t guarantee the same end result. The idea is that everyone will have all of the same opportunities, but will only reap the rewards of what they personally achieve. Finally, fascism is when a small group tells everyone else what is right and wrong. The basic idea behind it is that the average person isn’t bright enough to know what is good for them.”
“Okay, my brain hurts,” Joshua started, “but I have one more question. Don’t we have social programs in the U.S. like Social Security?”

“Yep, you’re right on target. The United States is a blend of capitalism, democracy, socialism, and in some small cases fascism. Normally, capitalism and democracy dominate the group. However, during times of stress like war or recession, small groups of people think they are smarter than our Founding Fathers and they sprinkle in a little bit of fascism in the guise of social programs,” I explained...
 
Pidgey said:
What book? The Encyclopaedia Britannica World Data Book? It gets redone every year whereas they don't completely redo the encyclopaedia itself but every ?five? years-ish?

That kind of data is especially difficult to come by. That the Nazis did some especially nasty things isn't in question, every aggressor does. When things get going badly, virtually all of us can become aggressors. That said, history is just a record of the winners and losers in the competition of life and livelihood.

As to the Holocaust and the veracity of the standard numbers given, I doubt you'll ever find anything worth a flip for verifiable data to support it one way or another. In any case, when push comes to shove regarding the argument, I'm not sure that it's a slam-dunk either way. Some folks finally resort to the old time-honored coin flip in the analysis department by asking the question: Cui Bono?
Click to expand...

Yes the encyclopedia, the site I posted quotes what you said and also some other things. It "looks" fair and balanced and seems to try to give all sides. I don’t know why but the topic is upsetting to me. I would like to know the truth but I honestly get a sick feeling inside that I even questioned the 6 million. I keep telling myself it doesn’t matter, bad things were done to 1 million or 6 but then another part of me says hey! I want the truth.

I wish I did not open this can of worms
:)
 
That sick feeling may arise from some deep part of you wondering why there have to be so many lies in this world.

OR... it could be from the much-more disturbing realization as to why it has to be that way.

The short of it is that if we:

"Make Love, Not War!"

...we end up with more babies. More babies mean more mouths to feed, energy to produce, et cetera ad nauseum.

Once in awhile, the math works out that in order to rebalance the equation, we have to reverse the terms thusly:

"Make War, Not Love!"

Altruism's a nice thought, but the practical application always seems to not work out...
 
Pidgey said:
That sick feeling may arise from some deep part of you wondering why there have to be so many lies in this world.

OR... it could be from the much-more disturbing realization as to why it has to be that way.

The short of it is that if we:

"Make Love, Not War!"

...we end up with more babies. More babies mean more mouths to feed, energy to produce, et cetera ad nauseum.

Once in awhile, the math works out that in order to rebalance the equation, we have to reverse the terms thusly:

"Make War, Not Love!"

Altruism's a nice thought, but the practical application always seems to not work out...
Click to expand...

I think it makes me ill for your first reason.


The make love not war saying was invented by people who are really pro abortion so I don’t think they worried about the effects :p
 
It's not actually the saying that's the problem--it's the reality that peace begets war!
 
No, because mortality goes down and populations tend to increase exponentially, eventually outstripping available resource. There is an ebb and tide to it all. Lately, though, we're looking at a real nightmare due to a confluence of problems.
 
It's something approaching that for every animal population on Earth, I'm afraid. Opposable thumbs haven't freed us completely from that, you know.

Lately for us though, it's Peak Energy, Peak Phosphorus and Peak Debt.
 
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Saxon said:
I have been reviewing the many diatribes between both liberal socialists and conservative capitalists in this site, and never have I felt more amused, especially with those who would decry me and my beloved fascism. I have been vilified for being a fascist, yet I wish to remind you all of one important fact:

THE USA IS A DEFACTO FASCIST NATION.

How did I come to this conclusion? Quite simple really. As the USA headed dangerously towards economic depression, you committed the unthinkable. You adopted fascist policies to stave off your own destruction, EXACTLY as the Nazis did. Has your government not, without your permission, taken your money and infused them into many corporations in the form of 'bailouts' in order to stave off their bankruptcies? Have you not even gone so far as to nationalise banks? This is the use of socialist policies in order to benefit the State. It is not true socialism, not when there are far more capitalist banks extant. The harmony between capitalism and socialism, as those with half a brain know, is FASCISM. I would beg any of you to differ. Please do.
Click to expand...
I guess even people who don't know what Fascism is can claim to be Fascist.

Just realize that it is Leftist.

“Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail.”
― Benito Mussolini

“All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing agaisnt the state”
― Benito Mussolini

And you might want to drop the BLM link and other such oddities
“Race? It is a feeling, not a reality. Ninety-five per cent, at least. Nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today.Race? It is a feeling, not a reality. Ninety-five per cent, at least. Nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today.”
― Benito Mussolini
 

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